Classic Minis

[F-Stop Junkie]

The thing is though, you dont buy a mini, because you are after a safe, sensible, practical family hatchback.

Every item you have outlined, is what a parent looks at when buying a sensible car.

What I outlined is what I look for in a car. I want something exciting, but I also want it to be safe, reliable and comfortable. I appreciate that everyone will have comprimises to make to find their ideal (be it higher costs for faster cars, less practicality for sports cars, etc..) but safety is one thing I wouldn't be happy comprimising on.

Ive seen the remains of standard minis in head on/side/rear impacts. Ive seen the remains of minis used in racing and rallying, where the level of impact is much greater than in a normal 40mph road accident. The level of distortion around the structure is not much different to a golf, a focus, a mondeo. A friend had a head on in a mini not long ago, and the shell was still intact enough for him to open to door and step out. This was at 25mph

Race and rally cars don't count. I don't think my Focus is exceptional because Marcus Gronholm stepped out of a big accident on a rally. The caged Mini I'm helping build has far more strength in the cage than the body shell, but then it's a silly FIA-spec multi point weld in jobby.

Remember that EuroNCAP tests are done into a concrete block at 40mph. These days if you crash into a 'soft' car it'll help protect the occupants of the Mini and limit damage to both cars. There are too many factors in an accident to say 'Minis are safe because people crash them without injury'.

Yes some minis have drums, but I've seen a well set up pair of drums outbrake a bmw round a track.

Drum brakes better than badly setup disc brakes... One generalisation followed by another. You don't know the condition of the BMW brakes, how hard the driver was trying to brake, etc...

Heavy steering? Getting out of a carparking space, hmm I could see where you are getting your idea from. Driving along a road at 30mph... Wouldnt really say theres any difference to the mini and my Ford Mondeo. If anything, the mini has a better feel, and you actually have some knowledge that the steering wheel is physically connected to anything.

The Mini steering does have better feel without a doubt, and I've said that before. I've driven Minis far faster than 30mph, and the steering certainly needs more effort than my Focus, but not a massive amount more. As you slow it naturally gets heavier though, and on increased lock.

Motorway driving? 4 speed gear boxes and hard suspension. How many motorways do you know of that have are covered in lumps and bumps. I cant think of many. Most I know of are smooth, and compliment a minis suspension to a tee. They arent so soft that the whole car pitches and wallows around, and not too hard that you can feel every stone you drive over. The speed limit on the motorway is 70mph. A mini in 4th gear will cruise along at 70mph fine. You shouldnt be doing anymore than 70mph as THATS THE SPEED LIMIT.

TF member in sticking to speed limits shocker... Depending on engine and gearing, I've been on the motorway at the speed limit with pretty high revs, and lumps and bumps (of which there are plenty, obviously your Mini rides better than the ones I've tried!) like the joints on the M69 for example, do buck the car around. Partly because of the suspension, but also due to it's small size and light weight.

I could go on, but I dont feel I need to. At the end of the day, you may not like minis, and not feel safe in one. Stick with your Focus. For people that love the cult car, that love to have the feeling of being involved in the actual driving process, for people that want to drive something that suits their personality, why shouldn't they drive a mini?

Cult being the word. It's like anything which has a fanatical following, the owners overlook the faults. Trials bikes objectively are rubbish bicycles, but they're great for what we do, and we overlook the lack of gears, seats, etc...

I've said many times in this thread that Minis are very fun cars to drive, and I've been involved with many over the years. They're much better than other cars of their era without a doubt but they're of their era. As I've said before, I'm not anti-mini, I just want people on TF to have a balanced view and not just think of them as perfect cars when they're not.

BTW, I don't like the insinuation that I don't want to be part of the driving experience. I adore cars in all their many and varied forms. I've gone to race meetings, the Festival of Speed, and I'm off to the Nurburgring in the summer. I love the feeling of a car as it undergoes weight transfer through a corner, or balancing a car over bumps and crests on roads I know well. My Focus gives as much involvement as I could ask for a car in it's class, but again it's down to comprimises.

[the_soon_to_be]

sorry i got bored of reading the last view massive posts...

in short i haven't been driving all that long, only 9 months, and in that time i have changed my car 3 times.. 2 of them being for minis, i stated out with my first mini (road legal one) and it was great, but i got very much fed uip of the coughing and spluttering when ever it rained. Continious problems with the braking, pedal hitting the floor etc and nothign happening and all the other minor problems, starting in the morining etc.

so i sold it and bought a mk4 polo, a nice modern reliable car that would go at 85mph and still be quite, steardy but most of all extremely boring to drive,

i jumped in and nearly spun at the first rounabout in the wet, what a lot of crap for handling..

so yes, i old it very recently and bought yet another mini, so i traded a brilliant little car for something that struggles to start in the morning, makes alot of noise, brake fading etc etc etc..

but, i am young and it the best thing in the world being able to throw it into a corner on the country lanes,

yes, if i crash there is a very large chance i will die in a colision, so i fitted buckets, harnesses and a cage, but hey theres still a fat chance i will die,

but just as equally likely to get splattered by a bus crossing the road,

so, sod it.., i'll risk it and enjoy the :

way people notice

way people always have a story about minis

fun on country lanes

harsh and bumpy travelling

continous problems cost excessive amounts of money

etc

so to be fair, if i crash and die and crash and die, thats how lifes set in stone..

only difference being, i'm enjoying my time

[dave85]

This "If I crash and die, so what?" philosophy is f**king stupid. Im hazarding a guess that none of us are orphans, so we all have families. With a very few exceptions, if you stuff your little tin box into a tree, your family are going to be pretty upset about losing you. Regardless of that, if you dont die but your passenger does, how will you face yourself for the next sixty years?

Like Chris, just injecting a bit of realism into the proceedings.

And by the way, I do drive a mini on an almost daily basis.

[Tom Booth]

If safety is a problem, look at the later minis. They had side impact bars, I know its still not gonna be much but every little helps. and to be honest, this minis crumple like a coke can, is a load of shit.

My first mini was a cat c write off, the previous owner went into the back of a lorry at some speed, tried to swerve so he didnt hit it, clipped the side and span it into a tree at still heavy speeds. Needed a new front end basically, and a roof section, but i doubt it could have been worse then that for a crash, and aparently he walked away with cuts and bruises. So all this about minis crumple instntly in a crash is a lie. I will say its not going to be the safest car you ever drive, by a long shot. It will be the funnest thou.

Just do all you can to drive safely and just remember to be aware as to whats going on around you and you'll be fine.

[F-Stop Junkie]

This "If I crash and die, so what?" philosophy is f**king stupid.

I don't worry about safety because I think I'll crash, I worry because I'm not the only person on the roads. Between idiots worried more about their choons than the road, the rep with phone in one hand and A-Z in the other, and the lorry driver with limited visibility I want to be as safe as possible just in case.

I've done my share of stupid stuff when I was young, but I'd hate for my girlfriend to be in a crash and I'm sure she feels the same way. I don't do now what I did then, but it's always been that way. It's true that youth is wasted on the young.

[the_soon_to_be]

funny thing is, that when ever i have my gf etc in the car i drive like a complete nun and stay completely away from country lanes,

as you say, killing myself is one thing but killing another perosn makes me an arse hole ??? yes

but, on the other hand, i am not going to be the person who drive 20 in a 30 and never pushes the car at all, i know all that about the raods not being a race track, but, honestly there is a time and a place

out in country lanes with no other bugger near, so, i'm all out for enjoying life and if i feel i can achieve that from rallying my little mini round tight neck, narrow, slippery roads with no one around and or in danger then so be it,

some people might call me a t*** but, personal opiion

[dave85]

You missed the point, killing yourself is not ok, and considering it so is bloody selfish, to take a son away from your parents and a brother away from your sister.

out in country lanes with no other bugger near

You can never know what is around, infact I had someone with just that mentality almost hit me the other night when I was out with a tractor. If you truly knew no one was about, surely you would take every blind corner using the full width of the road. Seeing as you're not omniscient, you either dont do that and are a lot more sensible than you make out, or you do and fully deserve whatever is coming.

[Gavyn.]

If you think killing yourself is ok you've obvouisly never lost anyone close in a car accident. It completley ruins your own family and causes your friends an awful lot of hurt.

as for minis being safe I suppose there not to bad compared to riding a motorbike or driving a high performance car (you know you'll push it just a little to hard one day) but can you imagine hitting a truck in a mini, no thanks.

[Matt_Tupman]

Intresting debate this.

Just like to add that the column is far safer than is though due to the way the steering wheel is mounted, the angle of the column and the weakness of the joint at the bottem the worse that will happen is that you get a steering wheel in the face (although this could still cause death) but it's not going to stick through your chest.

Just like to also add that yes Minis are not safest thing on the road, this is from some one who works in a Mini garage for a family businness that has been going for over 27 years. We know the dangers but we also know why and 99% of the time it is driver error.

My daily driver is a Skoda Felicia pickup, it has a nice air bag and abs, I have a 1996 Mini Cooper with an air bag with better brakes than the skoda and a 1963 Mini van tht runs on drums and will hit a ton if needs be. They all have there time and place and I think thats the big thing that everyone needs to remember.

Oh and chicks dig Minis