Classic Minis

[rocktrials]

well im very into the mini scene, have been for years, hasn't cost me a great deal

[Tom Booth]

Lol, the past 3 days have possibley cost me about 200 quid for it. Ah well, It's all worth it when its finished

[nmt_oli]

Lol, the past 3 days have possibley cost me about 200 quid for it. Ah well, It's all worth it when its finished

Thats nothing when compared to what ive spent over the last couple of weeks! riv run must have cost £150 alone, then theres the very expensive parts ive been buying!

[Tom Booth]

Haha, I hate them for how much money you can throw into them. But when its done all that money seems to have been worth it. Hopefully this project wont stand me at more then 3k. Hopefully

[nmt_oli]

Hopefully this project wont stand me at more then 3k. Hopefully

My engine alone is considerably over that figure. :$

....Runs off and hides.

Edited May 14, 2007 by nmt_oli

[Radfax]

I recak you mentioning a k110/k1100 (or some thing i cant remeber) head once didnt i NMT?

what happened on that

[F-Stop Junkie]

If I may offer a little balance here...

Minis are 60s design and engineering, which means they are pretty much as advanced as an HB pencil. The steering is very direct, with good feel, but the wheel is at the same angle as a double decker bus, and steering is very heavy indeed. The suspension is very basic and lacks control and travel, which does mean a go-kart feel but also bumpy rides.

Gear boxes are also fourty year old designs, so can be clunky and inprecise. The low power and bad ride means motorway journeys are tiresome, and the lack of sophistication on older cars means that they can be unreliable compared to a new car (A friend's Mini used to cut out in the rain for example...).

Oh, and they rust, badly.

Oh, and the engines are pretty low powered, but then there's relatively little weight to move so that's ok.

My biggest problem, and the reason why I'd never own a standard mini, is that they're built to 60s safety standards. They don't have crumple zones, survival cells, collapsible steering columns - or even laminated glass in some cases. Ok, you might not be going quickly, but Land Rover vs Mini isn't going to be pretty.

I'm not anti-Mini, I've been to Mini shows, and driven a few and even helped restore a couple (including a caged example in the works with a 1.4 K-Series under a flip front), but TF is a pretty pro-Mini place, and I wanted to give the downsides others might not! You wouldn't get me out of my Focus into one...

[nmt_oli]

If I may offer a little balance here...

Minis are 60s design and engineering, which means they are pretty much as advanced as an HB pencil. The steering is very direct, with good feel, but the wheel is at the same angle as a double decker bus, and steering is very heavy indeed. The suspension is very basic and lacks control and travel, which does mean a go-kart feel but also bumpy rides.

Steering IS NOT heavy! ok, it maybe heavier than some modern hatchbacks with silly powersteering desinged for grannies parking, but compared to "more modern" early 90s cars with no PAS, its a dream!

The suspension maybe basic, but its a unique design and it works. If you upgrade to the moulton smootharide suspension, which was developed by alex moulton, the origonal designer of the rubber cone suspension, the comfort of the mini is dramatically improved. this wasnt implemented at the factory, as the car was designed to be cheap.

Gear boxes are also fourty year old designs, so can be clunky and inprecise. The low power and bad ride means motorway journeys are tiresome, and the lack of sophistication on older cars means that they can be unreliable compared to a new car (A friend's Mini used to cut out in the rain for example...).

Oh, and they rust, badly.

Oh, and the engines are pretty low powered, but then there's relatively little weight to move so that's ok.

in some minis, yes motorways are bad- the latest mins however, were modernised to quite some extent!!! The higher power from the modernised injection 1275 unit, combined with larger wheels and higher gearing, means motorway cruising is comparable to a lot of small hatchbacks.

Reliabilty with minis lies only in some part with there design, the older parts mean smaller service interval and water traps for rust. Fundamentally, i still do not believe, if maintained properly, they are any less reliable than most cars on the road.

My biggest problem, and the reason why I'd never own a standard mini, is that they're built to 60s safety standards. They don't have crumple zones, survival cells, collapsible steering columns - or even laminated glass in some cases. Ok, you might not be going quickly, but Land Rover vs Mini isn't going to be pretty.

I'm not anti-Mini, I've been to Mini shows, and driven a few and even helped restore a couple (including a caged example in the works with a 1.4 K-Series under a flip front), but TF is a pretty pro-Mini place, and I wanted to give the downsides others might not! You wouldn't get me out of my Focus into one...

Minis are thought of as unsafe cars, but there not too bad. in front impacts, they crumple a surprising amount (even if they werent designed too). This is due to the complex curves that Issigonis put into the design for looks. Ok, above 40mph frontal impacts are going to get nasty, but they will in anycar. One positive the mini has is its "passive safety". The mini gives you so much feedback, very good visibilty, and great road holding that its is an easier car to avoid awkward situations with. your more liekly to avoid an impending accident in a mini than another car.

Don't get me wrong, i appreciate your post, it will help others make an informed decision, i just don't fully agree with it.

[rocktrials]

If I may offer a little balance here...

Minis are 60s design and engineering, which means they are pretty much as advanced as an HB pencil. The steering is very direct, with good feel, but the wheel is at the same angle as a double decker bus, and steering is very heavy indeed. The suspension is very basic and lacks control and travel, which does mean a go-kart feel but also bumpy rides.

I hardly even notice bumpy rides to be honest, and don't notice heavy steering cause im used to it now, great control

Gear boxes are also fourty year old designs, so can be clunky and inprecise. The low power and bad ride means motorway journeys are tiresome, and the lack of sophistication on older cars means that they can be unreliable compared to a new car (A friend's Mini used to cut out in the rain for example...).

Ye rain can suck, but get a few guards to stop places getting attacked, dizzy for example. and no motorway journey is tiresome with mini convoys

Oh, and they rust, badly.

If not taken care of

Oh, and the engines are pretty low powered, but then there's relatively little weight to move so that's ok.

Not really, hve a lot more power than other more modern cars round the same engine.

My biggest problem, and the reason why I'd never own a standard mini, is that they're built to 60s safety standards. They don't have crumple zones, survival cells, collapsible steering columns - or even laminated glass in some cases. Ok, you might not be going quickly, but Land Rover vs Mini isn't going to be pretty.

Meh

I'm not anti-Mini, I've been to Mini shows, and driven a few and even helped restore a couple (including a caged example in the works with a 1.4 K-Series under a flip front), but TF is a pretty pro-Mini place, and I wanted to give the downsides others might not! You wouldn't get me out of my Focus into one...

[nmt_oli]

I recak you mentioning a k110/k1100 (or some thing i cant remeber) head once didnt i NMT?

what happened on that

Um, i bought it

Brief spec in the min thread, more info will be in the mini thread when i next speek to morspeed, it should be built by the end of this week.

[F-Stop Junkie]

I realise I'm going against the mini fans here, not to mention a group of people who ride bikes that could hardly be described as comfortable

Modernised minis will be more than £700, plus 1275s will not be the cheapest insurance groups. The steering is heavy, it's not a PAS issue, but it's also not helped by some people fitting smaller sporty steering wheels.

Oh, passive safety isn't about having a car which will stop you getting into problems in the first place (try here instead) because someone not paying attention or going too fast in a Mini will have an accident. Especially with the tiny drum brakes behind 10" wheels compared to discs and modern tyres on a more modern car.

The lack of a collapsible steering column means in the event of a head on crash, there's a real chance of having a big steel spike through your chest. Minis were never crash tested as far as I can find, but the Metro (or Rover 100 on the EuroNCAP website) scores 1 out of five, and that was supposed to be the mini replacement - it was horrid though.

Just to illustrate, a Focus:

A Rover Metro:

[Matt_Tupman]

Thats all well and good saying they are not safe cars and by todays standerds, they're not, but some moron can still hit you at 50 and kill you!

Not all Minis have drums. Metro's are not horrid they are very well put together practical first cars.

Not trying to be arsey but I work in a Mini garage (Mintec Mini Spares) and have fore nearly 5 years now and they are far safer than people think, It's the nutter behind the wheel who causes most of the problems. And that is the case with any car.

Edited May 14, 2007 by Matt_Tupman

[rocktrials]

plus, you only live once have fun, buy a mini

[F-Stop Junkie]

some moron can still hit you at 50 and kill you!

It's the nutter behind the wheel who causes most of the problems. And that is the case with any car.

It's another rant, but it's far too easy to get and keep a driving licence. People who care about driving will maintain and improve their skills and planning as they drive, those who don't forget everything they've learnt as soon as they've passed, then reverse into small children, and panic when in the fast lane in the M1...

I admit it's a bit grown up, but I'd rather err of the side of safety when surrounded by distracted Mums and men with small willys in 4x4s. Even the safest driver can end up involved in a crash, even if they didn't cause it.

[Radfax]

Um, i bought it

Brief spec in the min thread, more info will be in the mini thread when i next speek to morspeed, it should be built by the end of this week.

i think its Dan webbster with the 16v KAD mini... not sure if thats his right name as it was a long old time scince i last see him. Lets hope you get yours like that one hey! because lets face it, thats the best mini on the road after ades minus which is now up for sale!

Anyone guess the price?

In response to f-stop junkie 50% of minis on the road now days are fitted with harness' buckets and roll cages because we all know they are noot the best thing to be in a crash in... note why i had a 6 point cage and FIA approved seats and harness' in my old mini, you can get airbag conversion kits if you are that concerned but there are also a lot of other precautions that can be taken aswell!

Edited May 14, 2007 by Radfax

[F-Stop Junkie]

In response to f-stop junkie 50% of minis on the road now days are fitted with harness' buckets and roll cages

Source?

[Radfax]

erm pardon?

[Haz]

You can't just say 50% of minis have rollcages and harness' with unsubstantiated evidence.

He wants a source.

And a roll cage won't stop the steering column pierce your chest, it wont stop the bulkhead crushing you legs, and it doesn't solve many problems other than the issue of rigidity during a roll.

[nmt_oli]

I realise I'm going against the mini fans here, not to mention a group of people who ride bikes that could hardly be described as comfortable

Modernised minis will be more than £700, plus 1275s will not be the cheapest insurance groups. The steering is heavy, it's not a PAS issue, but it's also not helped by some people fitting smaller sporty steering wheels.

I agree, the later minis command a higher price, and modernised minis that have been modernised by someone also. Even the 1275 units are in low insurance groups, its only when you get names like "cooper" on the end and if your young that insurance companys will shaft you.

I completely disagree about the steering! Yes, with silly wheels and small steering wheel it will feel heavy, but the steering on a completely std mini (except maybe sportspacks) is exceptionally light for a non PAS car.

Oh, passive safety isn't about having a car which will stop you getting into problems in the first place (try here instead) because someone not paying attention or going too fast in a Mini will have an accident. Especially with the tiny drum brakes behind 10" wheels compared to discs and modern tyres on a more modern car.

Ok, my definition was maybe wrong, but the point still stands. Also, the drumbrakes are more than enough for a std car if maintained properly. I learned to drive in a 998 with drums, and had to do an emergency stop (because of some twat in front, not because i was practising them), and it coped very well indeed. i even had to let off the pedal as the wheels locked surprisingly easily! I will conceed they are much more prone to fade than the disks (which ALL mins after 1984 are equiped with, and some prior), but thats only an issue with spirited driving.

You can't say anything about the tyres either! just because the car is old doesnt mean the tyres are. If anyone is running tyres older than 10 years they should just shoot themselves, its asking for a blowout. Its recomended to change them at 5 years, even if the treads still good as the rubber degrades. You wouldnt use a 10 year old condom would you? The current choice of tyres for 10" wheels is perfectly modern and safe.

The lack of a collapsible steering column means in the event of a head on crash, there's a real chance of having a big steel spike through your chest. Minis were never crash tested as far as I can find, but the Metro (or Rover 100 on the EuroNCAP website) scores 1 out of five, and that was supposed to be the mini replacement - it was horrid though.

Just to illustrate, a Focus:

A Rover Metro:

I will conceed, the mini steering column is dangerous, the most dangerous part of the whole car.

I would bet that a mini would come off safer than the metro in a head on. The body shape of the mini allows it to deform a lot, and take a lot of energy from a collision lke crumple zones do. they kind of failed to do that with the metro.

[Radfax]

i did not expect anybody to take my suggestions and estimates so procise... I was using it as an example, if you ever attend any moni shows i can garantee that at least 5 out of 20 cars you will look at will have either harnesses and safer seats or a roll cage, in most cases both.

I am just trying to say that mini owners know that they are not the safest things on the road so take extra precautions... yes you could have a steering wheel in your chest at the end iof tha day but no matter what you are driving there is still a chance of it happening....

f**k it who cars minis are fun!

You can't just say 50% of minis have rollcages and harness' with unsubstantiated evidence.

He wants a source.

And a roll cage won't stop the steering column pierce your chest, it wont stop the bulkhead crushing you legs, and it doesn't solve many problems other than the issue of rigidity during a roll.

There are many roll cages with dash bars amd l;ower dash bars which run along the top of the floor pannels to support the front end in a wack, they also come with door bars to support the car from side impacts. so yes they will stop the bulkhead from crushing your legs, not just stop the shell from crumpling in on you in a roll. If you are that concerned about the saftey of a mini there are MANY precautions that you can take to make the car safer.

I must also agree, minis are not that heavy on the steering for a non PAS car

[Rusevelt]

Awesome cornering abilities

[F-Stop Junkie]

The problem with considering mini enthusasts as a definitive sample of all minis on the road is somewhat flawed. It's like looking at all trials bikes on TF and seeing that 10% have saddles, therefore 90% of all bikes in Britain don't have saddles... Doesn't quite work.

I concede that modern tyres are better than old tyres.

I was thinking last night after our little debate, and if I ever win the lottery I'm paying for a standard 1986 Mini Mayfair in good condition to be crash tested head on. Then a second off-set crash test.

If it's not that expensive, I think I could easily spend six months crash testing old cars for no other reason that I'd like to.

[nmt_oli]

I agree, and its nice to see someone giving a non positive view on the mini, and actually backig it up for once! not just slating it.

I would be very interested to see crash test results. While the mini will undoubtably come off worse than a lot of modern cars, i don't think it would fair as badly as many people think. Its light, it has a lot of cmplex curves to absorb energy. The worst things are the steering column (which in standard busdriver mode would hopefully stand upright further, without causing too many problems) and the fact that the subframe pushes the floor back into the footwells.

[that NBR dude]

The thing is though, you dont buy a mini, because you are after a safe, sensible, practical family hatchback.

Every item you have outlined, is what a parent looks at when buying a sensible car.

Im sorry, but I also disagree with everything you have said.

Ive seen the remains of standard minis in head on/side/rear impacts. Ive seen the remains of minis used in racing and rallying, where the level of impact is much greater than in a normal 40mph road accident. The level of distortion around the structure is not much different to a golf, a focus, a mondeo. A friend had a head on in a mini not long ago, and the shell was still intact enough for him to open to door and step out. This was at 25mph

Yes some minis have drums, but I've seen a well set up pair of drums outbrake a bmw round a track. Most minis on the road these days have disks, and thats a fact. Some minis have safety cages, seats and harnesses, mine did, and a lot of people I know do as well, but Im not saying all do.

Heavy steering? Getting out of a carparking space, hmm I could see where you are getting your idea from. Driving along a road at 30mph... Wouldnt really say theres any difference to the mini and my Ford Mondeo. If anything, the mini has a better feel, and you actually have some knowledge that the steering wheel is physically connected to anything.

Motorway driving? 4 speed gear boxes and hard suspension. How many motorways do you know of that have are covered in lumps and bumps. I cant think of many. Most I know of are smooth, and compliment a minis suspension to a tee. They arent so soft that the whole car pitches and wallows around, and not too hard that you can feel every stone you drive over. The speed limit on the motorway is 70mph. A mini in 4th gear will cruise along at 70mph fine. You shouldnt be doing anymore than 70mph as THATS THE SPEED LIMIT.

I could go on, but I dont feel I need to. At the end of the day, you may not like minis, and not feel safe in one. Stick with your Focus. For people that love the cult car, that love to have the feeling of being involved in the actual driving process, for people that want to drive something that suits their personality, why shouldn't they drive a mini?

Edited May 15, 2007 by Andy@NBR

[F-Stop Junkie]

As I said before, I realise they're great fun, but looking around on here it's easy to think they're reliable, safe and refined. They're only reliable if you know what you're doing and prepared to get your hands dirty (though relatively easy to work on!).

I'm not a mini fan by any stretch, but they're not bad cars at all!