Ordering A Custom Frame From The Far East

[duane]

Hi,

I would stick to what you sold in university, theres much more mark up and you don't have to tie up your capital for two months while you wait for stock delivery, if duff stock turns up, you can always sell it to some mug in a club that doesnt know any better and will never see you again and you dont have a brand name for any one to rubbish either.

Also look at your competition, Base TA 26, well known and liked streety trials frame with a seat and gears if you want, frame 129 quid. The commencal Max looks like a good deal too, I would go for either of these long before I looked at something from a man on the street with a few quid to throw at a far eastern factory and no form of warranty or track record.

You would also need to factor tax into your calculations, the inland revenue have access to your bank details and would quickly notice money going to the far east and any cheques you cash, not sure what tax rate you would pay but recon on somewhere around 30% of any money you make, if you don't declare it they will send you to prison. Then there is the cost of your own time, if I said I will pay you 1 pound an hour not to ride your bike would this sound like a good deal ? its probably better than what you would be signing up for i.e. time spent chasing your stock, time spent chasing your shipment, time spent finding someone to distribute your stock and worst of all time spent thinking I have paid up front for a whole load of frames no one wants to sell, no one wants to buy and I haven't even seen yet.

As you can tell I dont think its a very good idea.

Do you really have 20 grand ? if so keep doing whatever it is your doing.

Duane.

[Mike Poyzer @ Onza]

Unfortunately its a fact of life that when you design and develop a frame with certain companies over there it will inevitably appear in their next years catalogue. Certain guys we deal with are much closer friends and will keep our designs exclusive which is where we source things like the Limey. You just have to face facts and stay a year in front of some of these main line manufacturers.

Anyway, according to many on here we don't do R & D and innovation, we just copy other peoples stuff. The way we managed to copy Echo's freewheel removal system and get it to market two years before them. Its like those snakes at Magura went and copied Echo's hydraulic brake design and managed to introduce it 20 years before they did.

[Krisboats]

Unfortunately its a fact of life that when you design and develop a frame with certain companies over there it will inevitably appear in their next years catalogue. Certain guys we deal with are much closer friends and will keep our designs exclusive which is where we source things like the Limey. You just have to face facts and stay a year in front of some of these main line manufacturers.

Anyway, according to many on here we don't do R & D and innovation, we just copy other peoples stuff. The way we managed to copy Echo's freewheel removal system and get it to market two years before them. Its like those snakes at Magura went and copied Echo's hydraulic brake design and managed to introduce it 20 years before they did.

I think onza are a great company, copy a frame, strengthen it and bring it to the masses for cheaper. I love my t-rex, and i feel confident in the fact its sturdy enough to take most of the shit i give it. The limey 2 looks great, if i could afford one i would definately go for one. I think thats one of the nicest frames around at the minute, and has obviously had a fair amount of R&D done to it.

The dropped chain stay mod frame that was going around a little while bike looked funky, again another design first. The tensile ranges look great, offest mounts were a great idea. The 22 tooth front free wheel is another.

I think there is a large amount of copyage though, to a certain degree. The t-pro, the t-rex, zeniths and zonas. Its not like onza are the only company though, i mean theres always pitbulls and CZAR frames too.

Just one question though, is the limey a higher price because of the closer friended production and secrecy or is it purely because its the flagship frame? I'd love one.... just can't justify spending so much on it.

[Al_Fel]

XTR Booster.

Plazmatic pads.

Monty Cranks.

Coustellier/pitbul.

ACS freewheel.

Chris King Headset.

Wellgo Pedals.

Zoo Python.

Club Roost grips.

Koxx XTP.

IT really must be annoying having people copy your stuff. Personally what I think is more annoying is moaning about people copying your stuff when you do the same thing. I think deng has got a lot to answer for...

I've missed/forgot a few aswell.

anyone feel free to do a similar deng thing.

[Davetrials]

oooooooo i cant wait for a reply hehe.

[poopipe]

ill give you the booster and the frames but theres not really a lot of room for variation on the other things - you dont bitch about everyone making footballs that are spherical and the same size as evrybody elses do you?

so basically the evil oriental factory has nicked the design and is flogging it on a year later? that does actually explain everything and i take back the jab about the r&d.

Edited April 28, 2007 by poopipe

[basher]

XTR Booster.

Plazmatic pads.

Monty Cranks.

Coustellier/pitbul.

ACS freewheel.

Chris King Headset.

Wellgo Pedals.

Zoo Python.

Club Roost grips.

Koxx XTP.

IT really must be annoying having people copy your stuff. Personally what I think is more annoying is moaning about people copying your stuff when you do the same thing. I think deng has got a lot to answer for...

I've missed/forgot a few aswell.

anyone feel free to do a similar deng thing.

How can the pads be the same just because they both are yellow dont mean they are i had a mate with citrus pads and where nothing like plaz. Alot of different variables go into making a pad compund not just the colour. The freewheel you must be having a jiraff, its no where near a acs. Yes it has a lockring and unsealed bearing and look similar but is completely different internal wise it is at a much better quality all round. The cranks i cant see how they are monty ones, they frame yes are copies but im sure all have geo changes to the one they copied. So therefore theres nothing to complain about its not how you bike looks its how it rides so onza obviously have done something not just copied it they have made alterations to make it better in there eyes and from how big a hit the zonas are they no what they are doing. The headset isnt just a striaght copy of a king as it has the something or other plated bearing or something like that. And also have you heard of the saying if it aint broke dont fix it so thats why onza had the sense to go along the lines of another great headset.

[Gavyn.]

IT really must be annoying having people copy your stuff. Personally what I think is more annoying is moaning about people copying your stuff when you do the same thing. I think deng has got a lot to answer for...

agreed

I like the fact that you copy each others stuff just give's us riders more choice

[Mike Poyzer @ Onza]

Some very bold flights of fancy there in your comparisons. The most outrageous however is that Tensiles copied Monty with those cranks. Quite the reverse actually as we developed the original Tensiles over two years before the Monty copy came out. This is also the reason why we changed it to the Urban Legend over which we have now retained some design rights.

You really have picked some very poor examples to try and accuse us of copying.

[Krisboats]

Some very bold flights of fancy there in your comparisons. The most outrageous however is that Tensiles copied Monty with those cranks. Quite the reverse actually as we developed the original Tensiles over two years before the Monty copy came out. This is also the reason why we changed it to the Urban Legend over which we have now retained some design rights.

You really have picked some very poor examples to try and accuse us of copying.

Like an XTP, or the coust?

Fair do's though... the others are shit. The citrus pads BLATANTLY aren't the same as plazzies, they have slots in and are a different compound... so someone made yellow pads before, theres not really a great deal of colours to do pads is there? I think pretty much every colour has been done before, besides purple (write that down mike... purple pads ). The booster, well, there may be a bit of a resemblance, but i'm pretty sure there was pics of stress testing and stuff that showed it was a great design. The cranks were definately copied by monty, i remember when they came out the tensiles had been out a little while already, and to be fair... like mike said.. they've already been altered and improved into very original and sleek looking cranks.

So what if a couple of things have been copied, onza are in my opinion one of the best manufacturers around. Half price replacements when things can't be warrantied. Generally good quality goods, some are excellent quality. And mike frequently comes on and discusses things with us, the riders... where as the only other things i've seen are the "new products from koxx" thread. Mike answers questions about products, they generally do try to inovate with their products and make sure the parts are affordable.

I really think people should cut them some slack.

[basher]

Like an XTP, or the coust?

Fair do's though... the others are shit. The citrus pads BLATANTLY aren't the same as plazzies, they have slots in and are a different compound... so someone made yellow pads before, theres not really a great deal of colours to do pads is there? I think pretty much every colour has been done before, besides purple (write that down mike... purple pads ). The booster, well, there may be a bit of a resemblance, but i'm pretty sure there was pics of stress testing and stuff that showed it was a great design. The cranks were definately copied by monty, i remember when they came out the tensiles had been out a little while already, and to be fair... like mike said.. they've already been altered and improved into very original and sleek looking cranks.

So what if a couple of things have been copied, onza are in my opinion one of the best manufacturers around. Half price replacements when things can't be warrantied. Generally good quality goods, some are excellent quality. And mike frequently comes on and discusses things with us, the riders... where as the only other things i've seen are the "new products from koxx" thread. Mike answers questions about products, they generally do try to inovate with their products and make sure the parts are affordable.

I really think people should cut them some slack.

I agree, people complain about them copying but just think if the levelboss wasn't copied to make the t-pro probley the best start bike out at the moment. People just pick up on the things they copied, and not the things they have thought up test changed and produced tensile cranks and freewheel the limey for example. If it wernt for onza alot of beginners would struggle to start trials as onza have the best beginner bikes range available imo. Every bike company copies but its what they do when they have copied people should pick up on like taking something and improveing it or using the design to help trials by getting more people into the sport ( the tpro for example being a cheap great bike)

[Mike Poyzer @ Onza]

It may also interest you to know that the Onza Ule grip was introduced in 1996.

[Al_Fel]

I'm not saying onza are a bad company I quite like them they do some good stuff. Older onza stuff was pretty poor though but its all about evolution. I haven't got a problem with company copying eachother and improving on it I think thats a good thing. I'd be pretty pissed off if it was my stuff that was getting copyed though but I don't make anything so its nothing to worrie about. I just don't understand how someone can moan about someone copying their thing which they copied it in the first place.

Btw older plaz pads had the groves in them. I didn't mention if they were the same compound or not.

[spunkey_monkey_boy]

my personal gripe with onza has never been with their production methods because all the bike companies are as bad as each other, what has always put my back up is the twatish attitude a number of onza staff and riders have had towards us wee minions

poopie - i'd strongly recomend you stay away from this idea, you'd be better off going into partnership with iolo or one of the other uk steel frame makers and bringing out something with sweet geo and 50 at a time for less than the one offs cost... or stick to selling drugs and spend the rest of your life lookin over your shoulder...

anyone recognise this one - http://www.biketaiwan.com/New/Script/query...BCNP004-B01-013

Edited April 28, 2007 by spunkey_monkey_boy

[deanie-b]

my personal gripe with onza has never been with their production methods because all the bike companies are as bad as each other, what has always put my back up is the twatish attitude a number of onza staff and riders have had towards us wee minions

poopie - i'd strongly recomend you stay away from this idea, you'd be better off going into partnership with iolo or one of the other uk steel frame makers and bringing out something with sweet geo and 50 at a time for less than the one offs cost... or stick to selling drugs and spend the rest of your life lookin over your shoulder...

anyone recognise this one - http://www.biketaiwan.com/New/Script/query...BCNP004-B01-013

Snap

[Krisboats]

QUOTE(deanie-b @ Apr 29 2007, 09:22 AM) ←

Snap

Close, but no cigar

Its got horizontal dropouts, so its 116mm spaced, it also has a shoter distance between the 4 bolt mounts and the dropouts.... its a mod frame

[br3n]

We all know the prices of the product are very low, Its all about marketing and promotional work.

its the concept that sells the product.

[poopipe]

why does eveyone think it's me that wants to flog the frames ?

I didn't start the thread

I couldn't bring myself to sell ally frames to anyone - they're all shite and I can't imagine any way of making one that wasn't shite. It's not the designs, it's the material.