Nationals

[Waynio]

if it wasnt for Fred/Mick and Barbara there wouldnt be a "2007 UCI world cup" IN SCOTLAND!!!! as they needed to see that "trials" worked up there.

Phil your coming across a real wanker. just leave this thread with your tail between your legs.

UK Biketrial at the moment are THE official competitions for World BIU team selection. (but seems to be run by people who wish to draw blood on other people??? for some reason)

Bike Trial (using the BiketrialUK site) are running national competitions for competitors from around the world can come and compete without ANY licenses. LITERALLY only the entry fee to pay.

Pay your money and take your choice. il be at as much as i can through out the year. but im more being put off going to the REAL brit champs as the people running it are acting like TO**ERS, there more interested in an arguement than a competition, lets hope they can organise a good enough competition as they do an arguement and they might be half decent!!!!

Waynio..............................

[NSE]

It is a BIU competition at a UCI event using the same venue, you can twist it whatever way you want but BIU where not happy about it.

Even if the BIU were unhappy about the venue, (which they were not), YOU would not be aware of it, so how can you comment with authority. Its a good job that this is a public forum as the public can judge for themselves who is being negative and making disparaging remarks and who is getting on with running events.

What I'm waiting for is a reply to "Rugbymans" post from Matt Tupman.

Fred.

[Walleee]

EDIT: Jake, no it will not unfortunatly BUT it has the newest and best venues in the UK available. if you wish to have fun and enjoy trials like me you will wish to attend MOST competitions through the year, attend both and see which has the "best" atmosphere.

How can you say it won't when Fred himself doesn't even know!?!?!?!

To be honest I suspect it won't, but christ, again, how do you know if fred doesn't? or where you just assuming?

[Waynio]

jake i was making speculation (for once in my life!!!and iv already learnt it dont work very well), at the end of the day it doesnt really matter to me, and shouldnt for others. if your one of the best in your country and your not selected, there is obv a selection problem.

just dont think of it in a "political" way, the way in which others are thinking. turn upto a trial have a good ride, enjoy yourself and make the most of events.

Waynio......................

[totaltrials]

if it wasnt for Fred/Mick and Barbara there wouldnt be a "2007 UCI world cup" IN SCOTLAND!!!! as they needed to see that "trials" worked up there.

Phil your coming across a real wanker. just leave this thread with your tail between your legs.

UK Biketrial at the moment are THE official competitions for World BIU team selection. (but seems to be run by people who wish to draw blood on other people??? for some reason)

Bike Trial (using the BiketrialUK site) are running national competitions for competitors from around the world can come and compete without ANY licenses. LITERALLY only the entry fee to pay.

Pay your money and take your choice. il be at as much as i can through out the year. but im more being put off going to the REAL brit champs as the people running it are acting like TO**ERS, there more interested in an arguement than a competition, lets hope they can organise a good enough competition as they do an arguement and they might be half decent!!!!

Waynio..............................

I think your looking way way too much into this and getting would up by something, you don't like what i'm saying so you call me a wanker, fair enough I don't mind, but I find it funny you to say that and not call yourself one for saying it.

Your making out as if ukbiketrial and biketrialuk are against eachother wayne, nobody from ukbiketrial or myself are saying that, we are saying it's great that there are more competitions, but simply explaining to forum members who are interested and want to know about the official british championships and what's going on, because it sounds like people don't know in this topic, I don't know why you seem to be going off on one.

Phil.

[Waynio]

Read micks post Phil. you will then understand!!!! it also says in another post in thsi thread too.

NBTC and Tykes can NOT become part of UK bike trial or what ever its called. the ACU wont freaking let them. as they are in control of UK Bike Trial they have no freedom they are OWNED by the ACU the point a few people are trying to get across.

As tyke trial and NBTC are part of an independant insurer they can do what they want, when they want, as long as they have a "permit" which we always have. more to say than what andrei did with the indoor exeter comp hey? if someone had of broken their arm there was no insurance. did you or any fellow from (UK)BTUK know that????

just get on with 2007, your not turning up to the National champ series??? or are you? dont worry about it. you must only be worried that were going to have more fun than you? and you lot want to spoil it its not as if this should be as bad as it is. it had all died off until you jumped into the thread???BTW how do you know so much if you didnt even attend the meetings????

Waynio.............................

[totaltrials]

Read micks post Phil. you will then understand!!!! it also says in another post in thsi thread too.

NBTC and Tykes can NOT become part of UK bike trial or what ever its called. the ACU wont freaking let them. as they are in control of UK Bike Trial they have no freedom they are OWNED by the ACU the point a few people are trying to get across.

Yep, I understand that about nbtc and tykes, I'm not sayign I don't, simple.

As tyke trial and NBTC are part of an independant insurer they can do what they want, when they want, as long as they have a "permit" which we always have. more to say than what andrei did with the indoor exeter comp hey? if someone had of broken their arm there was no insurance. did you or any fellow from (UK)BTUK know that????

There was insurance, and even if you think there wasn't Andre was working with Devon County council to run the event I don't know the ins and outs, but I remember something abut the Council sorting it out. Anyway I don't care about that haha, nice arguement though, let's carry it on when im in my nappy.

just get on with 2007, your not turning up to the National champ series??? or are you? dont worry about it. you must only be worried that were going to have more fun than you? and you lot want to spoil it its not as if this should be as bad as it is. it had all died off until you jumped into the thread???BTW how do you know so much if you didnt even attend the meetings????

That's a pointless remark because you must know I am all up for fun at a trial Wayne, and for you to be bothered that you are going to have more fun at a certain trial than another is quite rediculous, your the only person saying about "how fun a trial" is but to say that your the person not making it fun. And why wouldn't I want to enter the "national champ series" it sounds great, I probably will enter some, IM NOT DIGGING AT THAT WAYNE im sure it would be great.

How do you know so much if you don't attend the meetings Wayne?? It's just the same, I'm sure you get all your infomation from Fred Savage, fair enough.

[Matt Burrows]

Seriously Wayne, I know these are issues which you are obviously passionate about, but you don't have to throw personal insults at people in every post you make. Nobody needs to hear things like that, we're all here to enjoy trials at the end of the day. Hopefully this will be put behind us in the future and all clubs will come together again, but the unnecessary things you're saying will only make that harder.

Personally I am very sad to see the seperation of clubs. The original line up of events looked fantastic. It is a shame that the unofficial nationals look to be the more exciting series, with lots of new venues like Blackpool, Fort William and maybe Cornwall as well. I will do my best to attend both series and hope that riders will not ignore the hard work put in by Tykes and NBTC and support their championship as well.

I am a little confused as to why the 6 gear rule is being upheld? Although I guess for anybody riding the Worlds they will still need gears anyway. Is there any chance you could make the rule only apply to elite riders? I'm sure anybody riding expert worlds would already be in elite at british anyway?

[Ali C]

yeah wayne....chill duuuude!!

I will be competing in the official events run by UKbiketrial as its the official series and I would like a decent result, but I'll also enter some of the other series too, blackpool sounds ace! I am not going to put gears on though, what categorys would that limit me to?

[NSE]

How do you know so much if you don't attend the meetings Wayne?? It's just the same, I'm sure you get all your infomation from Fred Savage, fair enough.

Do me a favour Phil and keep my name out of your argument with Wayne. No doubt Wayne has got his information from reading the minutes of meetings - certainly not from me, I can fight my own corner without Wayne’s help, and his comments are independent. Of course it begs the question are yours? You have chosen to include my name in your posts, making vague accusations which you cannot substantiate. The record books show that I have worked hard for Trials in the U.K. in a positive fashion, incidentally I cannot remember one positive organisational role that you have played, my integrity has never been in doubt, has yours?

I would still be interested to read Matt Tupmans reply to "Rugbyman".

Fred.

[totaltrials]

Do me a favour Phil and keep my name out of your argument with Wayne. No doubt Wayne has got his information from reading the minutes of meetings - certainly not from me, I can fight my own corner without Wayne’s help, and his comments are independent. Of course it begs the question are yours? You have chosen to include my name in your posts, making vague accusations which you cannot substantiate. The record books show that I have worked hard for Trials in the U.K. in a positive fashion, incidentally I cannot remember one positive organisational role that you have played, my integrity has never been in doubt, has yours?

I would still be interested to read Matt Tupmans reply to "Rugbyman".

Fred.

You see now your putting words in my mouth saying "begs the question""you have chosen to include""making vague accusations" it's all terribly tragic and obvious what your going to say. And your just picking on nothing now, beacause I said wayne gets info from you, well if you say he doesnt, that's fine, i'm sure i'll believe you.

Ofcourse what I said cannot be backed up, but I can draw my own conclusions quite comfortably and no matter what you say (i.e like above) however you twist things will make me think differently, exactly the same with me and the minutes of the meeting, so it's all fair that you have your conclusion about myself and I have my own conclusion.

Phil.

[robster]

Looks as though its gonna be a busy year this year. 2 sets of nationals or whatever they are called to attend.

Can't wait, Bracken rocks is ace, Hook woods the dogs, Blackpool quality The list goes on.

I for one am looking forward to it. Please please people let the riders riding do all the talking, we should be happy that so many people are happy to put trials on for us to attend. If you do em all you can't fail to have had a good year at some of the best venues in the world, let alone the UK.

JP

[totaltrials]

Looks as though its gonna be a busy year this year. 2 sets of nationals or whatever they are called to attend.

Can't wait, Bracken rocks is ace, Hook woods the dogs, Blackpool quality The list goes on.

I for one am looking forward to it. Please please people let the riders riding do all the talking, we should be happy that so many people are happy to put trials on for us to attend. If you do em all you can't fail to have had a good year at some of the best venues in the world, let alone the UK.

JP

Legend, great post, exactly how it is

[Matt_Tupman]

Hi Matt, two points;

1) Please point out the exact comments in my letter that are not fact.

2) Define National, just because the ACU denied riders the opportunity of a combined championship it does not stop the series I am involved in from enjoying National status.

Fred.

Edit.

On reflection I felt I should reply to your comments about the Exeter indoor;

Biketrial U.K. objected on two counts.

The original format mixed BIU and UCI rules. The BIU and EBU will not permit events that mix federations rules. As the organisers were BikeTrial U.K. members they were required to run under BIU rules.

The event was advertised as a British cup without consulting the committee. The general consensus of opinion was that the event should not enjoy that status until its second year of running, and only if it met the required criteria.

Matt/Phil?, (with ref. to mixed rules), your group now flies the flag for the BIU and the EBU. You will be obliged to behave similarly in the future, unless of course you intend to ignore the constitution to which you should now adhere.

Hi Everyone. Phil Tupman here.

WOW sorry for not being sat down at the computer all day but Matt and I have been out cutting and clearing for West Of Englands first event of the year at Bottor Rock Farm, on Easter Monday, amazing you don't ride at a venue for 6 months and all hell breaks loose up there (a bit like this thread really!)

I have loads to answer, so appologize if I miss anything, this could be a long reply!!!

1. The ACU has NOT 'Seized control of BikeTrial UK' as well you know, we are an independently run committee, as you know from speaking to Anthony Rew, they in NO WAY 'Dictate our sporting future within the BIU'.

Unfortunatley you spoke to Anthony and ignored his requests to put your demands into writing so I can only answer the questions you raise from discussions I have had with Anthony, (That's at least twice a day if anyone was wondering)

You demanded that neither NBTC nor Tyke Trials should use ACU insurance cover, you demanded that neither club should pay the £250 levy that clubs are being asked to put towards the running of the sport, (last year clubs paid over £500 to biketrial uk per British Championship round) you demanded that in your events run the 6 speed rule, you refused to offer Blackpool moonrocks as one of the venues that you would run as part of an 'Official Championship' and you wanted to charge £20 per entry, so you wished to run half of the proposed series, but pay nothing towards the running of the sport, a bit hippocritical if you ask me, wanted different rules for your rounds, a bit confusing for riders.

2 Where will it all end if we run a Championship under so many differing rules/insurers/costs?

You only went to the ACU when you didn't get the answer you wanted out of Anthony Rew after the things that have been said and about the ACU are you realy surprised they refered you back to the Chair of Biketrial UK?

3. The ACU missled you as to cover, I'm a little confused, only the other day Barbara was saying it's the same master insurer, the ACU insurance is just about as good as it gets.

4. Just how has the ACU denied riders the 'Opportunity of a combined series' all you have to do is hold just 2 rounds under the above listed requirements, I believe that trying to state your Championship as a National will only add to the confusion, you only have to read all that's gone on today to see that, secondly as you stated you refused to let Andrei run as a National,

When you pointed out the error of Andrei's thinking re UCI BIU rules for Yellow route he realised his mistake and was big enough to admit that and ran under FULL BIU rules, he still didn't get to run his HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL trial as a Championship though.

Maybe the committee of BikleTrial Uk would offer the same thing to yourselves, what's good for the goose is good for the gander as they say.

Lastly we fully understand that we fly the flag of both BIU and EBU and have NO INTENTION of ignoring the fact.

Now I'll try and answer Wayne.

Firstly

2 Phils make a wrong............... your both being very petty arogant arseholes. LEAVE the threads alone that you have nothing to do with. DONT turn upto our events as these will be more fun and require alot less than your events.

Well I hope that you agree that I have a right to answer this Thread Wayne and PLEASE stop swearing, if you can't speak without profanities then think about the amount of Kids that read these posts.

At this point who knows which series will be more fun I hope that they both will be.

Now I'm no finacial genius but your 5 Trials at £20 each adds up to £100 pounds our 5 trials at £15 each adds up to £75 + £10 for Licence equalls £85 that seems to me to cost £15 less.

fellow forum members should READ Fred and Micks posts as they are critical in the outcome of this thread, Phil Tupman and Phil Williams are in this thread to cause controvesy. BUT it wont be spoiling our trials.'

I presume by this that you feel that we should not answer and put our side of what you , Fred, Barbara and Mick have written, that isn't very democratic is it Wayne?

I dont see why you cant just DROP it, you have got what you wanted by being the "UK bike trial" committee, do you want blood?

No Wayne we never wanted Blood and still don't however if people still insist on posting missinformation then I feel that I MUST reply and set the record straight if I hadn't then quite possibly riders may have entered your NBTC Championship thinking that this would count towards International qualification status

Phil Tupman make your own trials forum name and not use your son matts. theres a big difference between 1994 and 1998 my friend too!!! hahaha.

I have my own Trials Forum Name but am not validated,I think you would agree that this makes things a little hard to answer your questions.

At least you've realised that it's me answering when it's me and Matt answering when it's him. I'm sorry but I don't understand the 1994 and 1998 thing?? so can't answer that?

Back to Freds Post.

Hi Jake, in fact I am still waiting on an answer to that very question. All through this affair I have tried to remain constructive and continue to do so.

I think it will be a sad day for U.K. riders if the ACU decide to ignore riders of obvious quality purely because they did not hold an ACU licence. In a fair world all riders that show competitive potential should be considered by those with the power to select

.

So Fred all you need to do is agree to the request I listed earlier, That is if as you say you truly wish to remain 'constructive'

Still I fail to understand why you keep on banging on about the ACU 'ignoring riders of obvious quality' the British Championship will be there for them if they wish to ride in it and not only that it will cost them less to boot!

Back to Wayne again.

Phil your coming across a real wanker. just leave this thread with your tail between your legs.

UK Biketrial at the moment are THE official competitions for World BIU team selection. (but seems to be run by people who wish to draw blood on other people??? for some reason)

Still swearing Wayne and were still not after drawing blood.

Back to Fred

''The confusion lies due to Fred Savage being voted off as BIU delegate due to various very meaning reasons"

List the reasons Phil.

Do you really want me to Fred??

Fred, will your British Championship allow the rider to obtain a BIU ranking and allow them to be eligable for world rounds?

Sorry I know it's not one of Freds questions but NO the NBTC Championship will not allow a rider to obtain BIU ranking of World Rounds unless as the committee of BikeTrial UK truly hope and that NBTC and Tyke Trials come back into the fold, even 'If' just for the British Championship.

Back to Wayne.

NBTC and Tykes can NOT become part of UK bike trial or what ever its called. the ACU wont freaking let them. as they are in control of UK Bike Trial they have no freedom they are OWNED by the ACU

NBTC and Tyke Trials will always be welcome to stay as part of BikeTrial UK, it's themselves that are stopping that happening, I'm a little uncomfatable saying that as Fred and Wayne seem to be the only people talking on behalf of Tyke Trials and i'm not aware that Fred is on the Tyke Trials committee.

''As tyke trial and NBTC are part of an independant insurer they can do what they want, when they want, as long as they have a "permit" which we always have. more to say than what andrei did with the indoor exeter comp hey? if someone had of broken their arm there was no insurance. did you or any fellow from (UK)BTUK know that????''

I think that's the whole problem Wayne Fred, Barbara, yourself and others don't think anyone else have should have an opinion, so allowing you to do just about anything you want.

I can quite catogorically state that Andrei's Indoor Trial had insurance and a permit so you shouldn't lie about that Wayne, that's just wrong, ask Barbara, Anthony Rew filled out the form and Barbara signed it!

So I hope if you've managed to keep the will to live after this mammoth reply and my answers will draw this thread to an end

Hope to see as many of you as possible on Easter Monday.

This reply has been written by PHIL TUPMAN (BikeTrial UK Secretary)

[grantham]

i'll be attending both championships but one thing I've just thought of is that to get an ACU licence you have to be a member of an ACU affiliated club, so does this mean I have to join Essex, Hampshire or the Devon club just so that I can get an ACU licence? Or is there a way around it?

Thanks Patt

[Stan Shaw]

I've just read the whole of this topic and I'm pretty sure I understand whats going on now.

I will be attending the Uk Biketrial series, but I'm going to try and enter some of the "Biketrial" comps too. I'll be in the "guest" category? As I understand you can enter this category with single speed set up? For one, I think riding a comp at the Blackpool moon rocks would be great fun! I also think its great that theres more comps to enter, this can ONLY get more people into Trials and competitions.

One question I have though...

i'll be attending both championships but one thing I've just thought of is that to get an ACU licence you have to be a member of an ACU affiliated club, so does this mean I have to join Essex, Hampshire or the Devon club just so that I can get an ACU licence? Or is there a way around it?

I'm also a little confused with that too? Do I need to send an ACU form to Essex Club to get them to sign it and then will they pass it onto the ACU? The closing date for round 1 at Hook Woods is 16th April, there is no way I can my ACU and NEW BIU by then? (Apparently I need a new BIU signed by Barry Deeks)

I read on the Ebtc/UK-Biketrial newsletter that they are accepting ACU applications at the comp?

Can someone please help? Need to get any forms sent ASAP.

Cheers,

Stan.

[Davetrials]

The first round at the british championships which stands for a national ranking and BIU ranking etc etc is held at Hook Woods on 29th April.

This competition at Bracken Rocks is basically just an NBTC competition re-named to make it sound like a british round.

go to: http://www.ukbiketrial.co.uk/ for entry form for the 1st round of the british championship and info about entering.

Phil.

yeah wayne....chill duuuude!!

I will be competing in the official events run by UKbiketrial as its the official series and I would like a decent result, but I'll also enter some of the other series too, blackpool sounds ace! I am not going to put gears on though, what categorys would that limit me to?

Im going to the same comp these two are going, sum one help me i dunno were the f**k to send more forms to.

Edited April 6, 2007 by Davetrials

[NSE]

Replies inserted below,

Fred.

QUOTE(NSE @ Apr 6 2007, 09:18 AM)

Hi Matt, two points;

1) Please point out the exact comments in my letter that are not fact.

2) Define National, just because the ACU denied riders the opportunity of a combined championship it does not stop the series I am involved in from enjoying National status.

Fred.

Edit.

On reflection I felt I should reply to your comments about the Exeter indoor;

Biketrial U.K. objected on two counts.

The original format mixed BIU and UCI rules. The BIU and EBU will not permit events that mix federations rules. As the organisers were BikeTrial U.K. members they were required to run under BIU rules.

The event was advertised as a British cup without consulting the committee. The general consensus of opinion was that the event should not enjoy that status until its second year of running, and only if it met the required criteria.

Matt/Phil?, (with ref. to mixed rules), your group now flies the flag for the BIU and the EBU. You will be obliged to behave similarly in the future, unless of course you intend to ignore the constitution to which you should now adhere.

I am not sure, (I’ll read your post again), that you have directly answered my questions.

Hi Everyone. Phil Tupman here.

WOW sorry for not being sat down at the computer all day but Matt and I have been out cutting and clearing for West Of Englands first event of the year at Bottor Rock Farm, on Easter Monday, amazing you don't ride at a venue for 6 months and all hell breaks loose up there (a bit like this thread really!)

I have loads to answer, so appologize if I miss anything, this could be a long reply!!!

1. The ACU has NOT 'Seized control of BikeTrial UK' as well you know, we are an independently run committee, as you know from speaking to Anthony Rew, they in NO WAY 'Dictate our sporting future within the BIU'.

Unfortunatley you spoke to Anthony and ignored his requests to put your demands into writing so I can only answer the questions you raise from discussions I have had with Anthony, (That's at least twice a day if anyone was wondering)

Each time I raised a point with Anthony he stated that he would have to consult with Gary Thompson of the ACU before he could give me a decision. This indicated to me that Thompson had the ultimate authority, so I turned him in an effort to find common ground, without success.

You demanded that neither NBTC nor Tyke Trials should use ACU insurance cover, you demanded that neither club should pay the £250 levy that clubs are being asked to put towards the running of the sport, (last year clubs paid over £500 to biketrial uk per British Championship round)

If the Championship was to be run by two organisations, both building for the future, why would one organisation demand fees from the other? When we offered to share our events we made no reciprocal demand. I felt it correct for you to plough your funds back into your organisation, and would do likewise, but your organisation wanted our contingency fun as well as their own. You have your overheads and we have ours, we did not ask for financial help with our events that were to be included in a combined series.

you demanded that in your events run the 6 speed rule,

In fact the EBU and the BIU have demanded that the British Championship applies the six speed rule. Please publish any correspondence from either organisation that says the rule may be ignored.

you refused to offer Blackpool moonrocks as one of the venues that you would run as part of an 'Official Championship'

That was after all our prerogative, but I have explained to Anthony and S. Matthews, (who is supposed to finding a compromise on behalf of the EBU), that any event used in a combined series will come under close scrutiny. Blackpool has proved difficult to administer to. With that in mind and in an effort to make the event as appealing as possible to as many riders as possible it may be run slightly different to the main series with modified rules, AS IT WILL BE. Having offered shared events you wanted to pick and choose.

and you wanted to charge £20 per entry, so you wished to run half of the proposed series, but pay nothing towards the running of the sport, a bit hippocritical if you ask me, wanted different rules for your rounds, a bit confusing for riders.

We wanted BIU rules, as you should. £20 entry fee, (I think I remember), was one of the few things agreed at the January meeting.

2 Where will it all end if we run a Championship under so many differing rules/insurers/costs?

It will end with two championships, that’s obvious. The group I work with has access to good venues, skilled organisers and the respect of many in the world of Trials. We made a genuine offer of compromise to your group; but too many unacceptable conditions were applied.

You only went to the ACU when you didn't get the answer you wanted out of Anthony Rew after the things that have been said and about the ACU are you realy surprised they refered you back to the Chair of Biketrial UK?

I was not referred else where, I was given a clear answer. THE ACU WILL NOT TOLLERATE ANY OTHER ORGANISATIONS CONTRIBUTION TO ITS CHAMPIONSHIP. JOIN THEM OR MAKE YOUR OWN ARRANGEMENTS.

3. The ACU missled you as to cover, I'm a little confused, only the other day Barbara was saying it's the same master insurer, the ACU insurance is just about as good as it gets.

Barbara will answer this point in a few days.

4. Just how has the ACU denied riders the 'Opportunity of a combined series' all you have to do is hold just 2 rounds under the above listed requirements, I believe that trying to state your Championship as a National will only add to the confusion, you only have to read all that's gone on today to see that, secondly as you stated you refused to let Andrei run as a National,

When you pointed out the error of Andrei's thinking re UCI BIU rules for Yellow route he realised his mistake and was big enough to admit that and ran under FULL BIU rules, he still didn't get to run his HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL trial as a Championship though.

I agree the event went well, although not all rules were followed, in fact one aspect included in BIU rules on the grounds of safety was ignored. Having said that I would have had no objection to the event enjoying National status in the future having considered the first effort.

Maybe the committee of BikleTrial Uk would offer the same thing to yourselves, what's good for the goose is good for the gander as they say.

Lastly we fully understand that we fly the flag of both BIU and EBU and have NO INTENTION of ignoring the fact.

Fine, please make sure you run to the rules, so as those competing in International events find similar rules apply when they attend.

Back to Freds Post.

QUOTE

Hi Jake, in fact I am still waiting on an answer to that very question. All through this affair I have tried to remain constructive and continue to do so.

I think it will be a sad day for U.K. riders if the ACU decide to ignore riders of obvious quality purely because they did not hold an ACU licence. In a fair world all riders that show competitive potential should be considered by those with the power to select

.

So Fred all you need to do is agree to the request I listed earlier, That is if as you say you truly wish to remain 'constructive'

Still I fail to understand why you keep on banging on about the ACU 'ignoring riders of obvious quality' the British Championship will be there for them if they wish to ride in it and not only that it will cost them less to boot!

Banging on? Don’t get your point. My point is will your organisation ignore riders of obvious quality if they have not held an ACU licence and not competed in your events, or will you take a broad view and consider all those that apply to compete in the WBC.

Back to Fred

QUOTE

''The confusion lies due to Fred Savage being voted off as BIU delegate due to various very meaning reasons"

List the reasons Phil.

Do you really want me to Fred??

So far I have fallen victim to a number false claims and accusations. It has been stated that I was at meetings I did not attend, I’ve been accused of inappropriate behaviour over UCI team selection, (with emails sent to UCI head office about me), so a few more won’t do any harm.

It’s polite of you to give me an option, it avoids unnecessary confrontational activity.

Please make a list; send me a hard copy by registered post. I will post it on the Forum unedited if the points raised are relevant or true.

QUOTE

Fred, will your British Championship allow the rider to obtain a BIU ranking and allow them to be eligable for world rounds?

Sorry I know it's not one of Freds questions but NO the NBTC Championship will not allow a rider to obtain BIU ranking of World Rounds unless as the committee of BikeTrial UK truly hope and that NBTC and Tyke Trials come back into the fold, even 'If' just for the British Championship.

This point is covered above.

At this moment in time we have many people about to attend our Trial at Bracken Rocks.

The event is fully insured.

Those attending do not need a licence so all are welcome. Please pay special attention ALL ARE WELCOME. That means if a rider hold s an ACU licence a BIU licence or no licence at all they can come and compete.

The only grey area between OUR events and YOURS is a minor difference in the rules, which I CAN amend.

THE OFFER IS STILL THERE PHIL, CALL ME, SAY YOU WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE BRACKEN ROCKS IN A COMBINED CHAMPIONSHIP – IT CAN BE DONE.

Fred.

[Waynio]

im posting on behalf of tyke trial (the most sucessful UK club) i get my info off the internet when i get time to look when im at work. as well as running a very sucessful cycle shop. i dont spend all DAy sat here, just when i seem fit to get time. after work i go out and ride my bike, or do other things that dont assosiate with bikes as i do it as a job and a hobby?

Waynio.........................

Edited April 7, 2007 by Waynio

[rugbyman]

My one and only forum post on the subject

Phil you have said time and time again that you want Tykes NBTC etc to run British championship rounds, Anthony has spoken to Fred saying the same, even the EBU want everyone to work together. NBTC and tykes have said they are willing to, and want to run British rounds (the ones that give you British status and entry to the worlds) so the answer was yes, hooray everyone agrees! We all want the same thing. Hallelujah that’s it then problem solved………

ER

NOT QUITE!

The ACU will not let NBTC or tykes run a round unless they affiliate to them and use there insurance. It’s not that you don’t want them or they don’t want to do it. THEY CAN’T!!

If you are the democratically elected members of the people who are in control of Biketrial UK, please tell me why can’t you control this situation, why isn’t it you who has the right to say who runs a British round?

Crazy!

Who owns the car you drive? you or your insurance company!

and for jake the answer is ukbiketrial (tupman deeks)

PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

[kelly farm trials]

Dear Fred

Will you and or Tyke Trial, if you wish to run a round of the british biketrial championship:-

1. Remove the six gear rule

2. Charge £15 entry fee

3. Pay a fee which enables championship awards ,team kit and organisational running expenses to be covered

4. Run under a democratic organisation

5. Run under rules which respect the riders right of appeal,which are consistant and fair to all

6. Run under an organisation which enables officials and marshals to be protected

7. Are you willing to be involved in a process which selects suitable rounds by consensus

8. Are you willing to work together for the good of the sport, not split off and disrupt a perfectly good series or organisation

This is why we have a strategic benevolent alliance with the ACU , it backs us up with everything we need to run a safe ,fair and protected sport.

Straight answers to these please, as you know we have always been willing to forgive and forget, but we feel the responsability of protecting all concerned in the future, and it is a bright future of biketrial in the united kingdom

Best wishes Anthony

[TykeTrial]

Will you and or Tyke Trial, if you wish to run a round of the british biketrial championship:-

1. Remove the six gear rule

A: Not until the BIU give written permission to remove this rule and/or remove it from the International rules.

2. Charge £15 entry fee

A: Yes, if that price covers the costs of the requirements of running the series. As you well know, last year the British events made a loss at some competitions and only just broke even at others. We don't aim to make a profit, merely to cover costs and provide suitable facilities at the events. Blackpool for example needs many more facilities, because of public safety issues, than any other event. That event could not be run for a £15 entry fee; it is impractical to expect it to do so.

3. Pay a fee which enables championship awards ,team kit and organisational running expenses to be covered

A: Yes, and we will pay it 5 months late, just like the Kelly Farm trial last year was paid late, so that individuals have to pay for the annual trophies out of their own pocket until the money arrived. I will add that TykeTrial donated £2,000 towards the World round, as well as paying two years' levies in advance, as well as organising many fund-raising events, including demos, raffles, etc. TykeTrial has more than contributed towards BikeTrial in this country and will continue to do so, albeit possibly through another route.

4. Run under a democratic organisation

A: Yes, just as BikeTrial UK always was run until November 2006 when you and the ACU overuled BikeTrial UK to enforce a change of rules against the wishes of the majority of the committee.

5. Run under rules which respect the riders right of appeal,which are consistant and fair to all

A: Yes, as they always have done and will continue to do so.

6. Run under an organisation which enables officials and marshals to be protected

A: We always have done, do now, and always will do.

7. Are you willing to be involved in a process which selects suitable rounds by consensus

A: We will run the rounds that we want to run to the proper rules as dictated by the BIU. If you want to use them as one of your series, we will be very happy for that to happen. But as long as UK BikeTrial go against the BIU Constitution by staying under ACU domination, then we will not be part of that.

8. Are you willing to work together for the good of the sport, not split off and disrupt a perfectly good series or organisation

We are very happy to work for the good of the sport and that is what we are doing. We have always been a major player, provided the highest membership, the most active administration, and supplied the majority of funding in that "perfectly good series and organisation". BUT WE ARE NO LONGER HAPPY TO BE PART OF AN ORGANISATION (the ACU) WHO OVERULED A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

This is why we have a strategic benevolent alliance with the ACU , it backs us up with everything we need to run a safe ,fair and protected sport.

So this has absolutely nothing to do with you having become a member of the ACU Trials & Enduro Committe early last year? I find it strange that prior to then you rarely attended BikeTrial UK meetings and rarely applied for your ACU permit through the correct channels. Everyone else stuck to the BikeTrial UK / ACU rules, but not your club who simply went their own way - and when other clubs complained, your retaliation was to 'get rid of them'.

Now please, all we want to do is to run events for our riders. We will not be forced or bullied into becoming affiliated to the ACU; we will not be forced or bullied into making our members buy an ACU licence.

TykeTrial's large number of helpers and our high number of members and riders show that the system we work under is benefitting the sport. Our insurance is not inferior as you keep suggesting.

If you want to use any of our results we are happy for you to do so, and this is why the "National" events are being run strictly to BIU rules so the option to include them remains open. If you don't OK.

But let us get on and do it, and do it for the riders, not for the ACU.

Regards

TykeTrial

PS. You keep referring to Fred Savage and TykeTrial together. Fred Savage has absolutely no connection with our club.

[NSE]

Hi Anthony,

Please see below;

QUOTE

Will you and or Tyke Trial, if you wish to run a round of the british biketrial championship:-

QUOTE

1. Remove the six gear rule

A. I am not in favour of the 6 speed rule. Prior and during our “troubles” I have asked both the EBU and the BIU if the rule may be amended for the U.K. championships, but both organisations have insisted that we retain the rule. If I can be shown authorisation from either the BIU or the EBU I would be happy to see the rule scrapped, if they refuse to authorise an amendment how can the rule be omitted?

QUOTE

2. Charge £15 entry fee

A. As long as organising clubs are not left out of pocket I would agree. I would prefer a per rider levy rather than a flat fee. My Blackpool event would possibly run at a loss at £15, but as I have said before – it’s a special case, not just a hill side, there are extraordinary expenses for that venue.

QUOTE

3. Pay a fee which enables championship awards ,team kit and organisational running expenses to be covered

A: The levy proposed, (or proportional lump sum), would cover the above.

QUOTE

4. Run under a democratic organisation

A. Yes, as long as the organisation was self governing with full autonomy over its own sporting activity.

QUOTE

5. Run under rules which respect the riders right of appeal,which are consistant and fair to all

A: Yes, I believe that in the event of a dispute the rider may appeal to the EBU or BIU.

QUOTE

6. Run under an organisation which enables officials and marshals to be protected

A. How else, whether we join forces or not our riders and officials will enjoy more than adequate protection.

QUOTE

7. Are you willing to be involved in a process which selects suitable rounds by consensus

A. In my efforts to forge a compromise I have never questioned which rounds your group would offer to the collective activity. I feel the suggestions I made were practical from a logistical standpoint. Obviously venue selection will have to be discussed.

QUOTE

8. Are you willing to work together for the good of the sport, not split off and disrupt a perfectly good series or organisation

I honestly believe that that I have always worked unselfishly for the good of the sport. I will not accept control from an outside organisation. Those that have been involved in BikeTrial for many years know the sport best, they are the best ones to service it.

QUOTE

This is why we have a strategic benevolent alliance with the ACU , it backs us up with everything we need to run a safe ,fair and protected sport.

That is your choice. The service provided by the ACU is not unique; it is available elsewhere without the influence that the ACU appears to wish to apply.

As I have said to you on the telephone, migration by riders under your administration to our events is easy. I made it clear that the door of opportunity was wide open.

Whether we work together or not some riders will ride in both series, fully insured, through sections, losing marks that will be recorded. The only hiccup is the six speed rule – If you can demonstrate that Hiro and Libor are happy to accept an amendment in the U.K. then there is nothing stopping a combined series.

Best regards,

Fred.

Edited April 7, 2007 by NSE

[Stan Shaw]

One question I have though...

I'm also a little confused with that too? Do I need to send an ACU form to Essex Club to get them to sign it and then will they pass it onto the ACU? The closing date for round 1 at Hook Woods is 16th April, there is no way I can get my ACU and NEW BIU by then? (Apparently I need a new BIU signed by Barry Deeks)

I read on the Ebtc/UK-Biketrial newsletter that they are accepting ACU applications at the comp?

Can someone please help? Need to get any forms sent ASAP.

Cheers,

Stan.

Anyone help? I'm going to post my ACU to EBTC along with my entry i think Hopefully it will be reet.

Stan.

[kelly farm trials]

Dear stan

All relevant forms should be available on the website www.ukbiketrial.co.uk , either in downloads or links

The most important thing is to enter the trial , all competitors in the Genuine British Championship will qualify for a free BIU license ,forms are downloadable from the website, if you do not have yours in advance of the day forms can if necesary be filled in then.

As far as club membership is concerned .

There are ACU affiliated clubs all over the country, we recommend you join and support your local club each club may make a charge for membership,some to cover the cost of admin or a newsletter some may not charge at all. You do not have to be a member of a club that runs biketrials if you have another club nearby, perhaps they might like to run biketrials if aproached possibly with an offer of help.

To obtain your ACU license you have to fill out an application form which will be countersigned by the club which you are a member of,in advance of the event you would fill out the form and if it is your firist application attach a photo and send with a ten pound fee to the ACU , alternatively you could fill this form out on the day,preferably bringing a photo if necesary with you ( if you forget this can be sorted out later)

To save Dave and his team work on the day, if possible it would be helpful if riders could do what they can in advance of the day, entering the trial is key everything else is possible , hope this helps