Whats Going With These Echo Freewheels?

[Davetrials]

whats all this yoo hoo about the tensile free wheel and the echo freewheel?

i dont understand the problem, there two different freewheels? why are onza having a paddy?

some one refresh my memory?

[AdamR28]

http://oami.europa.eu/RCDOnline/RequestManager -> number 316534.

The 'issue' is with the BB tool removal spline, of which the Echo should be clear of infringing Tensile's Registered Design. We would like to be certain before beginning to sell our stock of freewheels. Gives me a little time to test one though, so its not all bad!

[Davetrials]

but the echo design is different to that which mike has patended (SP?) i dont see the problem? and it has 4 slots for another tool

dammit i want my freewheel:( i cant get my grubby mits on one.

[AdamR28]

The freewheels are completely different internally, yes, but the 20 spline removal method is the issue here. It has however been sold in the UK previously by AC though.

Internally, the Echo freewheels seem to be identical to White Industries ENO Trials, and the performance of mine would certainly indicate that.

Cheers

Adam

[Nick Dale]

new bike today....new freewheel today...gotta give the b*****d time to bed in a little...aint gona be run in from the box is it *sigh*

[hubertus]

What I understood is that the Onza patent is on the 20 spline design.

So what Echo did is remove 4 splines (see picture) to have 16 instead of 20, that way they can sell it, no problems!

And regarding quality, indeed it has nothing to do with the tensile. It's much closer to an ENO trials freewheel.

And 1 more thing: bearings are sealed (which is not the case on the tensile FW).

[Al_Fel]

Hang on a second. Am I hearing right that onza are having a paddy because someone copied them? Wowawoowa. Seems rather cheeky to me.

Oh and by the way front freewheels are shite.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Anal_Teflon

[mat hudson]

everyone has a go at the onza/suprcycles brands even though. they make really well thought out, well priced well made componants. to list a few zoots, t-pros, zona zips/zeniths, tensile cranks, t master hubs, tensile freewheels, tensile offset brakemounts, limey frames and builds (take a look at the spec on limeys, nothing can really touch it for the money) and those new tensile headsets seam really well thought out so i just dont see why people have to be so hostile.

word bro' front freewheel sucks BAAWWWLLZZZ

[RobinJI]

I don't think he's having a go at Onza quality, just pointing out the way that its kinda ironic that they complain about someone copying them when they have produced things like the zenith, zip and t-rex.

Anyway, regarding the echo freewheel, if you don't wanna wait for it to come out, then just buy an eno and use the tenner you save to buy the proper tool. There virtually identical inside anyway.

[liam-pantera]

for the freewheel debate the echo freewheel look realy good and machined well , as for the removal tool shouldnt that disicion be down to shimano seeing as they desighned the tecnolgy . also should the internals of the echo freewheel be a law suite as in daves words its a exact copy of a eno freewheel.Regardless this freewheel is great it combines both easy removal and reliability i may even have one soon even though i favor rear cassete hub .

also i apologise for the previous statements they were all personal opinion and had little proof behind them and i over exagarated about all of the onza components because all components have faults they were jus ones i found so im sorry .

Edited March 22, 2007 by baseguy

[SomeoneNew]

blah blah

Everything breaks if you hammer it! I don't see how you can call it a fault if it breaks after you've hammered the shit out of it! Its like if you wrapped a car around a tree, it doesnt make the car rubbish just your driving!!

Anyway the fw looks good, if only I wasn't skint!

Edited March 21, 2007 by SomeoneNew

[Muel]

What I understood is that the Onza patent is on the 20 spline design.

So what Echo did is remove 4 splines (see picture) to have 16 instead of 20, that way they can sell it, no problems!

And regarding quality, indeed it has nothing to do with the tensile. It's much closer to an ENO trials freewheel.

And 1 more thing: bearings are sealed (which is not the case on the tensile FW).

This is what I thought, it looks like a great design, because it allows you to use any BB or freewheel tools to remove, however, who on earth is going to use a freewheel tool instead of the bb tool? I would rather that it had all the splines to fit a bb tool, then I only need one tool, and you can get more purchase on the freewheel.

I don't see why onza is making such a hoo hah about it, the echo ffw is clearly not a competitor, they are in completely different leagues of price, peformance and quality. It is more a competitor for the ENO, having the same number of engagment points, the same bearing design etc.

[Greetings]

So what Echo did is remove 4 splines (see picture) to have 16 instead of 20, that way they can sell it, no problems!

Hahaha that is soo cheeky

It's strange that they use the 20 spline socket, isn't the XTR spline much more popular now?

Just wondering why they'd infringe a patent when they could just use another equally popular standard.

And Dave, you can always get your freewheel from another country, USA maybe? They've got a really quick postal service and good prices.

[Josh Greenan!!!!!!!!!!]

Zhi on here is selling Echo freewheels dave ask him.

[ogre]

how much thinner is an echo compared to an eno ('cause i have shagall clearance with my eno)? also how much thinner is a deng bashring compared to the 74kingz one?

[mat hudson]

stuff

pm'd you to poit out just how wrong you are. TO THE PM!

[dave85]

pm'd you to poit out just how wrong you are. TO THE PM!

f**k that, let's have a public slagging.

The zoot is cheap, apart from the rear hub and the bb and the cranks if you're picky, the rest works.

The T-pro is f**king cheap for what it is, the ones with oversize BB's are seconds, you can't expect wonderful things at 1/3 the rrp.

God knows how you think the tensile cranks are dangerous, yes I've seen sets broken, Ive seen hollowtech 1 XTR cranks broken and Middleburns too. Considering the number in circulation, they're pretty damn good.

The carbon bars last well if you dont hammer them.

f**k knows whats up with the king hubs, I presume they're from the batch that was bought to do the ultimate spec woodstocks. I know for a fact there's nothing wrong with them.

You show me concrete evidence that these things are failing before reasonable life and I'll retract the above.

[BikeDotStuffAtOnzaDotCom]

im sorry

Well, that's OK then.

You mustn't believe everything you read on the web...

If anyone wants this put back the way it was, I can do that (saved it).

Edited March 22, 2007 by BikeDotStuffAtOnzaDotCom

[MadManMike]

Anyone for 0wned on toast?!

Baseguy, you should think before posting or at least add that it's an opinion not based on any evidence.

Not only can you give a company a bad reputation but you can land yourself in serious trouble.

I think the sensible thing to do would be to make a statement and delete the original post.

[mat hudson]

nah, let him get done, be a lesson to all the other stupid f**ks on this forum.

[liam-pantera]

to be honest i dont no what u were all stressin at i was only pointing out what i thort of it and im sure i put that most of the components are good and the fact ive used / use them so im sorry if u thort i was jus trying to say onza are shit because i wasnt i was just pointing out faults that i found .

[Mark W]

im sorry but in what u said i dis agree as all the products you listed have faults im not trying to cause a war but most of them suck.

zoots are cheap and most of the parts dont last long - The frame's good, so by having a good frame you can upgrade the parts on, you're getting something with a lot of potential. A shit frame with good parts would be worse. Most of the parts on the Zoots last well for new riders, or intermediate riders, meaning you don't have to instantly upgrade anything.

t-pros ride well but are weak and have french/italian bb - One batch had over-sized BBs, Onza made BBs to go with them and they're at a reduced rate.

zona zip basicly have t mag geo and feel horrid - I don't really get how you can say that, in that the geometry's totally different?

03 04 05 tensile cranks all shattered and are very dangerious but urban legends are the sex and i use them because there stronger and its a shame that the other models were weak because i realy like the look of them . - Haven't heard of any of the Tensiles "Shattering"? They cracked, and if people didn't spot the cracks they might have snapped, but they wouldn't "Shatter", and aren't "very dangerous"?

t master hubs generaly arnt bad only a few snapped axels and colapsed bearing but there a catalogue product . - I've had two T-Master hubs, and both lasted for over 3 years each without a single change in bearings or replaced axle. I've seen one break that another rider was using, but that was hella old. They're strong hubs, especially bearing in mind how cheap they are.

tensile freewheels suck it took 3 years to develop and they made 3 good ones and the rest die for some reason . - One batch with incorrectly threaded lockrings, as far as I knew? There are still plenty of people rolling on fine Tensile freewheels.

as for the limeys why are they exactly 1mm thick hmmm somats not right there the kings hubs are rejcet ones that king wouldnt sell

the carbon bars shatter and cause great injury - What? I've seen some of them crack, but you can always see if it's going to happen because the carbon starts to show signs of warping. Either way, you couldn't shatter them anyway because they've got a load of aluminium behind them? I don't know if you saw the cross-section pic that was put up a while back, but there's hardly any carbon fibre on them at all.

the forks screw up the geo big time - Don't like long forks? Don't buy long forks!

Just put forward my thoughts. You can't really put across bullshit like that, directly saying that products are "Very dangerous" and "Cause great injury" without people getting arsey. Like bikedotstuff was saying, that IS libel, and you could easily get done for it. If you don't like something, fair enough, but to make up stuff like "the carbon bars shatter and cause great injury" is a really, really f**king bad idea.