Car Opinions..

[TomR]

This isnt a 'im learning to drive what shall i get, its a bit more specific.

Once again i'm making a shortlist for sumer 07 when i plan on getting a new car.

Anyone who has a clio sport (whatever variation but i dont fancy the MOt failing 182 cup or whatever it is) what is your genuine opinion on it? Build quality, recurring problems, handling etc.

I don't want any 15 year olds replying going 'they look nice, get one!' because thats not what im asking. I already know that.

The shortlist so far is:

(possibly) Clio Sport

Mk4 astra coupe turbo

Mk4 astra GSi

Mk5 astra 1.9 cdti sportshatch

Possibly an A3/S3 depending on the insurance, probably an A3 TDI or something, 03/04 kinda age.

Seat Leon cupra but i don't see the insurance being too friendly on those.

What are your impressions on those too? And any other suggestions, 15o-200bhp, smallish hatchback and about £8k.

I'm well aware of Mini Cooper S's but my sister has one, yeah its quick but a- i dont want the same car and b- its shit built quality.

[MadManMike]

Out of all of them i'd go for an Audio A3 if the insurance isn't too bad.

Reasoning:

Renaults are french, and 2 people I know have them and they seem to be nothing but trouble...

Astra's are ok, I just think Audi's are more reliable and they look sexy! (Let's face it, looks are half the car!)

[Prawny Baby]

Ben Lees got a clio 172, as has andyroo i believe, so ask them about the renaults

we all know who the forum vaux people are, so im sure tehy will say their bit

i will of course suggest the audi, as its going to be much better made than either a vaux or a renault, and has a serious rep for reliability.

cheapest quote ive found is 900 for me on my A3 1.8 T sport, with 1 year ncb and a crash against me.

ages 21 with 3years ncb you could insure an S3 for as little as 800, which is pretty awesome. so the insurance on them really isnt too bad.

for 8k you could get an older S3, or a VERY mint 1.8t, or 1.8t quattroand still have change to chip it up to 220bhp....

personally, if your spending the money on a sporty small car, id go with something turbo'd, as they tend to be far more driveable. things like the clios and stuff need to be thrashed to get the best, as they lack the lower down torque which makes the turbo cars so easy to live with.

which ever you go for, get something with a blower

[TomR]

But i think the A3's can look a bit bland against the GSi's. Ive got a mk4 astra at the moment and its really good, and im very familiar with the GSi's, the only problems they seem to get is the AFM going and the Power sounder.

I'll probably rule out the CDTi astra H because it'd be a shit trim spec compared to a GSi.

Theres also the Sri-T:

the GSi:

They're certainly not bad looking cars, and servicing isnt sky high either.

Edit, thats why the A3 and astra come out on top, in their class theyre the best/only things with turbos.

And the vauxhall LET angines are very reliable too, i think about everyone uses them for tuning, including the oldskool ford boys, so im not too concerned about reliability with the astras.

Edited December 9, 2006 by planetxpimp

[Prawny Baby]

in that case then id let budget decide what you get.....

look into the tunning options of both cars.

i know the LET motors are easily tunned

a simple remap on the A3 T should see you between 195-205bhp from £400, and roughly 220lb/ft.

if you add to that a CAI ~£60-£150, a High flow downpipe and decat £100, a decent exhaust system ~ £150-£300, along with a remap, you should see in the region of 230bhp.

All A3's need lowering to look right, as i find mine sits far too high, although lowering springs cost less than £100, and to do it properly, a set of Jamex coilovers can be bought for £300, which are apparently pretty good.

personally, i prefer the shape of the Audi, although the Astra is a very nice looking car.

for me, the Audi reputation would win it, as we have all heard the jokes about vauxhals, despite them having amoung the best engines around.

it really is down to personal preference.

what sold me on the 1.8 20vt in the end was the tunning capabilities of it. in one of my favourite cars.

EDIT: andy P just linked me to this ^^^ bog std body work, only mods are porsche rims and lowered on KW coilovers

[TomR]

Yeah, but astras are seriously easy to tune aswell, starting with 200bhp, a CS1 remap with a few basic mods will see you straigt to 240bhp. seeing as i'll be 21 at the time i wont go mad with that stuff though.

How much is a minor/major service at an audi dealer on that thing?

and sure audi has the reputation, but it also has the cost of upkeep to go along with it.

What are the interior trim specs like in the audi's?

[Ingram]

i havnt a 172 or a 182 but i have a 1.6 clio, i know it is different, but the 182 or the 172 cups are beautiful, thats what im goin for next time i change my car, the build quality of clios isnt brilliant but look at the features they have for the money, mines pretty nippy for little 1.6 and handles great too, i havnt realy taken it super fast round a round about but it feels though it has loads more grip left. Overal i love them, alot of people will say oh its renault the electrics will go, so what everycar has a weak point, and its not garenteed to go, go test drive one you'll like it

[TomR]

Yeah but the electrics going is a pretty major weakpoint.

[george_seamons]

Another vote for the Astra here.

They are seriously nice cars. Although mine's not a GSI...or even a petrol for that matter, I can vouch for their reliability. Nothing has gone wrong with mine in the last 20k miles, apart from needing a new set of rear brake pads.

I know for a fact the GSi is very rapid, and can EASILY be tuned to silly figures...mostly done by remaps, and uprated FMIC's. I'm hoping to have one in future, if the insurance companies will let me!

...and they're British!

[Prawny Baby]

Yeah, but astras are seriously easy to tune aswell, starting with 200bhp, a CS1 remap with a few basic mods will see you straigt to 240bhp. seeing as i'll be 21 at the time i wont go mad with that stuff though.

How much is a minor/major service at an audi dealer on that thing?

and sure audi has the reputation, but it also has the cost of upkeep to go along with it.

What are the interior trim specs like in the audi's?

i think the services tend to cost £170 a time on the audi, which seems standard fair for most vw's and audis.

interior trim wise, if you go for the 1.8 T they are all sport models, which includes MUCH nicer very supportive seats, which are height adjustable too, electric windows, mirrors, heated door locks, power steering, front drivers, passengers, and side airbags, alarm and immobiliser, remote central locking, over speed warning which you can set yourself on the move, onboard trip computer displaying loads of stuff. extras include the Bose sound system which is incredible, and almost all of them have air con as well.

[TomR]

Yeah, i've got a 2.0Dti and its pretty good. Theres a bunch of guys on astra-sport.co.uk who've got some crazy figures out of the LET's. Only thing i dont like about the GSi's is that half leather, the patterns a bit funny, but if i found one with full leather then that'd be alright. That and the greay around the clocks, but that can be changed anyway.

cheers for the info on the specs prawny, sounds pretty good. VX services i think are generally £120 for a minor and £180 for a maor service, not alot of difference i guess.

[Bendee]

for 8k if you was wanting the clio go for the 172 all the extras xenons climate control leather alcantara seats everything electric no doubt it handles better than the audis and astras and will put a bigger smile on your face.

you can pick a nice one up for 6k and you can get 200brake easily and a few other things for the 8k youll have.

tuning wise the clio isnt amazing but you wont need all that power to have a rapid one as the cars light.

i say go drive them all and see what you think, you know what the deal with them all is just make your own mind up.

whats this 182 cup mot fail thingy ive never heard anything like this.

[TomR]

Something to do with steering/ABS i think, as its a stripped down version certain parts werent fitted, so after 3 years when they come round for their MOT they fail as it's not there, and noone seems to know it wasnt fitted as factory and renault dealers deny all knowledge. Try googling it, theres a fair bit about it on the net.

As for the handling of a clio compared to the audi and astras, thats something noone will know unless they drive them all. Which hopefully i will next year.

[Prawny Baby]

no doubt it handles better than the audis and astras and will put a bigger smile on your face.

it'd be interesting to get a direct comparison on that one ben!

the audi handles insanly well for what is a fairly large car, its by no means in the same league as the mini, but then again, nothing is.....

id be very interested to see how the clio handles round the twisites!

tf track day is needed i reckon

[Bendee]

im not going of my experiances but from what ive read, the general feeling is the car is heavy and you can feel it when driving and its more a nice car than a fun car handleing isnt amazing its just satisfactory obviously a car you can be confident wont die but lacks the full on fun factor of the clio.

Edited December 9, 2006 by Bendee

[Luke Williams!]

big big fan of the astra, but what you have to live with is the running costs, am sure its not too cheap if your taking a longish journey each day, there very nice to drive though and the interior is of good standard, but they do look vauxhall plastic inside which isnt great.

the Clio is ment to be great i watched the top gear and fifth gear reports on it and they gave it fantastic reviews, although on fifth gear they did prefer the suzuki swift. (well tiff nedell did)

the new astra is very very nice but i get the sense of its just a bigger corsa, they both look very identical and alot of people have them now which is a let down, although its diesel the engines arnt ment to be great reliant wise but they are great quick wise keeping up and sometimes beating the petrol alternative.

I'm also looking in to getting an A3, well i say that and i will probably be gettin the a3 if not that the a4, TDI versions me thinks due to petrol lasting longer, i've spoken to a few people all mechanics and very good ones at that about how much i have to spend and what car to get and straight away they all said and audi a3 or a4 1.9 or 2.0 tdi. they said there very reliable fantastic for driving and great comfort inside, they said value for many is superb with the audi and also when it comes to wave the baby goodbye they keep there price tag really well.

so for me summing up all the options i would say the audi is probably the best value for money. especially if you got the TDI version. saving money on petrol etc when you travel, and having a good reliable car underneath you. but for all out fun its probably the renault 172, and for looks its the mk4 astra turbo.

thats my view of it all

[TomR]

Ive got a 2 litre diesel at the moment, astra GSi running costs arent that bad, i only do 150 miles a week and petrols cheaper than diesel anyway. And as said i've got a mk4 astra as it is so i know what the interiors like, its not that plasticy atall and is certainly a lot better than ford stuff.

Reason i want a new car is i want something more fun, so im straying away from diesels for now.

Out of interest, have you driven the clio?

[ian]

just found you a bargin mate,

clicky

not sure on insurance though.

[TomR]

I've considered stuff like that before, along with VX220's and TT's, but theres nowhere for the bike to go!

Elise's are pretty cheap to insure and run as theyre only a 1.8 aswell.

[JTM]

imo these are different kinds of cars

Astra and A3 are similar but the clio is a different kettle of fish.

A3 is a lovely cruising car, handles well, but wont be a patch on the clio imo. Never been in a sporting clio though but they are regarded as some of the finest fwd machinery about. The audi is heavy and a bit bigger aswell.

Imo the astra is the worst of the 3. I like how they look, but ive never heard anyone say a good thing about one in terms of performance? That aint to say they arnt quick, its a 2.2 turbo aint it? same engine nearly as the vx220? But thats a whole lotta torque steer lol when it comes on boost. And they dont look that sporty either.

Clio would be my choice. They are rattly and french and have problems, but they are very fun cars.

If you do alot of motorway miles and have fun at weekends, audi, if you dont do many motorway miles. clio

[TomR]

It's a 2.0 turbo, 200bhp as standard and 0-60 in 7 flat. Considering its main 'small hatch rival' would technically be the focus ST170, it would absolutely annihilate it. I've considered a lot of cars, and the astra comes out on top in terms of price, performance and reliability most of the time. I just think you've not heard from many people who have them to be honest because anyone i know with a Z20LET'd vauxhall has been pretty impressed, a fair few have gone elsewhere and returned to the GSi.

I'm not going to spend 7 or 8 grand on a car with reliability issues just because it's 'fun' so in terms of swaying me to the clio it's not working well Especially seeing as its smaller, doesnt look quite as good IMO either. I thik the astra looks more sporty than the clio too. the audi doesn tlook that sporty atall.

Just checked parkers, the clios also a higher insurance group.

Edited December 9, 2006 by planetxpimp

[Luke Williams!]

i have driven that new 172 clio this rich girl i know has one, it is insanely fun to drive very small very nippy but so quick its pretty scary at times. but for fun i dont think any of the other cars win, its not massively practical though its a bitch to get 5 people in it but for what you seem to be looking for its perfect.

also diesels are cheaper than petrol, thats why they invented diesels :\ cost less to run. depending on the engine size

But for all your uses you seem to be focused on the Astra, and and your wrong about the a3 pfff just slap on the Audi body kit lower it and pow you have a god sent car much nicer looking than the Astra's when done properly. difference of opinion on the interior as well sit in a smevvies car like a golf or an audi an theres a diffrence also vauxhalss remind me of skoda's for some reason.

Edited December 9, 2006 by LukeBrisaRider

[TomR]

Diesels are more expensive to buy but people buy them as theyre in the long run a lot cheaper. The only problem is the price of diesel has overtaken petrol.

As for the 'just slap on a bodykit', i shouldnt have to, not to mention the fact that it will bump my insurance costs up. Its still definitely on the shortlist, but it doesnt stand out from all the other A3's on the road IMO.

I am focused on the astra, for the simple reason that it seems to come out on top all the time. for price, size, practicality, speed (same as the clio 0-60 and a higher top speed) reliability and running costs. Its an insurance group lower than the clio and the fuel consumption is pretty much the same, and on average may be a bit better for how i drive due to the turbo.

The reason for this thread is to find a car that can rival it, which the clio could have done, but it doesnt sound like it can really. It matches performance, and maybe a bit more fun but nothing else seems to be as good as the GSi/SRi-T/Coupe turbo astra.

[JTM]

What kind of car do you want?! The astra just seems like a astra with a big power engine in there.

What do you want this car for?

[TomR]

Driving to work, a bit of fun, something ot look at.

And it basically is, as are most sports hatches. usual upgrades like sports seats, lowered suspension, ESP, TC, CC, sports bumpers and a spoiler.