Anyone Ever Think About

[spunkey_monkey_boy]

i'm not thinking on the whole 'taking the sport to a wider audience' etc

i'm talking about how environmentally damaging annodising is, how shipping frames from taiwan/china half way accross the world isn't very eco friendly either, how driving 400miles to ride your bike for a few hours at a comp is a massive waste of fuel - something that is now running out) etc etc

doesn anyone on here ever think about the environmental impact of our sport and our actions? does anyone actually care or are there too many arrogant teenagers who have the 'why should i give a shit about the environment' attitude?

how many of the trials companies and shops have any possitive environmental plans - do any of you re cycle or demand your products are sent to you misus a load of the un needed packaging. do any of you calcuate your carbon emmission and do anything about it? use re cycled paper? use the train not the car?

discuss

[James]

not at all mate. i know it sounds arrogant but stuff like that has never bothered me really! i tend to worry bout things more relevant to me as a person, and i know u could say that 'the environment' is one of those, but i mean things like uni and my family etc. i dont think trials could really be considered a paticularily big culprit of world-wide environmental damage.. the opposite infact, we dont have engines!!

[anzo]

Most manufactures have to recycle by law.

The fuel used going to a competition is better used going to a comp, then used in the nova of a 17 year old willy.

I'm not going to sit at home, wrap myself in bubble wrap and think about how I'm going to save the world just because Ye Olde' Government says so. I turn lights off and all the rest of that engery saving shit, but lifes to short to be kept awake all night thinking about it.

[Fish-Finger-er]

ive thought about the damage were doing as regards buildings/structures etc. but never really thought of how eco friendly we are. because i know this sounds stupid, as if everyone didnt say it, it would make a difference, but me quitting trials, and taking up horticulture or another more eco friendly sport would have bugger all impact.

only a few of those points seem to hold any water with me.

the shipping one for example, its not like for every frame builds, he sends a cargo ship to britain, the ship would already be going, deng just adds a crate onto it, so its having more of the ship used. which kinda makes it more enviro friendly on the numbers game(95% of its load space being used each trip, as opposed to 90%).

[spunkey_monkey_boy]

the shipping one for example, its not like for every frame builds, he sends a cargo ship to britain, the ship would already be going, deng just adds a crate onto it, so its having more of the ship used. which kinda makes it more enviro friendly on the numbers game(95% of its load space being used each trip, as opposed to 90%).

sorry - shit reasoning there, think about supply and demand and re think what you've just said!

other comments so far - no ones asking you to quit trials and take up horticulture, what i'm asking is do you think about it and could you/would you make small changes to your everyday life to be more environmentally friendly?

[Dan Jones]

Interesting topic, another thing I would like to find out is what are the working conditions like at Echo or any brand?

[newb]

I agree about what everybody is saying here but.. there is many sides to this disscusion.

1) 1 person may not make a difference, but 5 or 10 people might.

2) Get better riding, use your bash less.

3) People can use fuel however they like, It is there problem when there family is suffering from Global Warming.

4) It is peoples choices of how they see things , Just one thing may change something alot.

Lewis

[yoyoyo]

I can't say i really think about it.

I hardly go to other places to ride because i'm a lazy bum, so i just ride to town and back. So really i'm a good boy. Only guilty of buying things that have been shipped over.

[mods]

i think it's a joke how the uk is trying to bring down immissions, for eg people only allowed to have condensing boilers. We in this cuontry are ' green' mad, but why?... save the ozone..

ok, the ozone layer is already messed up and the uk, only produces 2% of the global immissions anyway, so why are we trying so hard when no one is.. and we have the least in put on the atmosphere anyway!

[Josephine]

i think it's a joke how the uk is trying to bring down immissions, for eg people only allowed to have condensing boilers. We in this cuontry are ' green' mad, but why?... save the ozone..

ok, the ozone layer is already messed up and the uk, only produces 2% of the global immissions anyway, so why are we trying so hard when no one is.. and we have the least in put on the atmosphere anyway!

Because if everyone thinks like you we're all f**ked. This 'everyone else is doing it' argument is a whole load of self-fulfilling horseshit. If people stop, then not everybody else will do it, and shock-horror the only person whose actions you can control are your own, so grow a spine and take some responsibility for yourself.

(Sorry, this all sounds really acerbic, it's not aimed specifically at you, mate. It applies to everyone in the same position.)

Joe x

[ramps]

I never really think about the environment, I am basically what you all hate. When I had a quad I would happily screw the shit out of it for a full weekend and not think about the ozone layer etc and now my only hobbies are trials and xc, both of wich I see as environmentally freindly. Mabe when my life starts changing because of the affect of global warming I will change my ways, and yet I know that it will be too late then.

Thank god not everyone is like me I suppose.

[spunkey_monkey_boy]

Because if everyone thinks like you we're all f**ked. This 'everyone else is doing it' argument is a whole load of self-fulfilling horseshit. If people stop, then not everybody else will do it, and shock-horror the only person whose actions you can control are your own, so grow a spine and take some responsibility for yourself.

(Sorry, this all sounds really acerbic, it's not aimed specifically at you, mate. It applies to everyone in the same position.)

Joe x

couldn't have said it better myself

the sooner people start taking some responsibility for their own actions andstart accepting that changes need to be made the better.

to anyone who says 'i'll change when i have to', when your house floods this winter or you break your leg and have to wait 5 hours for an ambulance to get through the floods etc etc don't go asking for help, you've brought it on yourself

[tipsy Jock]

Did you know that shipping is the most eco friendly form of transport, admittedly if the frames were built in the UK there would be no need for it.

To be honest my opinion is just like Anzo's i'm not going to stop doing the things i love because of the potential damage to the environment. I try to do my bit here and there by turning off lights and appliances, we recycle at home and so does my Office etc. I admit that sounds selfish but its not as if my hobbies are ilegal waste dumping and fox hunting now is it?

Pete

Edit: Mods does have a fair point, until the likes of America and India start sorting out there emissions then it does make UK efforts seem futile (thats not a reason to bury our heads in the sand though or say "not my problem"

Edited November 26, 2006 by tipsy Jock

[ramps]

couldn't have said it better myself

the sooner people start taking some responsibility for their own actions andstart accepting that changes need to be made the better.

to anyone who says 'i'll change when i have to', when your house floods this winter or you break your leg and have to wait 5 hours for an ambulance to get through the floods etc etc don't go asking for help, you've brought it on yourself

I agree, and yet I live at the top of a hill very unlikely I'm goin to flood, I'd be fubard if the town were to flood though.

[mods]

If everysingle person and company in the uk, was 100% efficiant (sp) which as we know is imposible, then the world as a whole would be 2% cleaner.. woo hoo well done uk. But the realism is we are prob cuttin immisions by 20% if we are lucky.. so the uk cuts global immissions by 0.8 % again well done uk.. If you ask me, i'd rather not loose performance cars/bike, i'd rather have a cheaper boiler installation ect.. for the sake of 0.8%.. what difference will that make? not a lot of course not, we need everyone.. the usa, china all that, to do the same as our government, then maybe we will get somewhere.

We have already lost our seasons in this country(uk).. summer lasts about two weeks and is stupidly hot, rains most of the time, and it's not very cold in winter. ..it's all downhill from here really.

[tipsy Jock]

I'm gonna mix it up a bit, what if all the changes in the environment are natural and merely accelerated slightly by human meddling? Bear in mind things like the ice age etc

[TomR]

couldn't have said it better myself

the sooner people start taking some responsibility for their own actions andstart accepting that changes need to be made the better.

to anyone who says 'i'll change when i have to', when your house floods this winter or you break your leg and have to wait 5 hours for an ambulance to get through the floods etc etc don't go asking for help, you've brought it on yourself

Totally agree aswell.

As a cycling sport im not overly concerned by the effect we have, its minimal. When i recieve parts in the post theres hardly any packaging to start with, but what paper or card there is goes in the recycling bin, the jiffy bags and bubblewrap get put in a cupboard till i sell something that needs posting.

Shipping of components doesnt really change alot. Ships make runs all the time, the number of trials parts that get sold compared to say sony TV's or Washing machines again, isnt really alot, its all very light and fairly compact anyway. infact its probably more economical to send a couple of ships full of light aluminium bike parts than it is 1 ship full of washing machines.

[roly]

Theoretically global warming will make the planet a much harsher place to live for humans but you hear a lot of people saying "we are destroying the planet" The planet is hardcore, in its history it has been in loads of different states. We can wipe ourselves out and as soon as we are gone the planet will fix itself in a relatively short time. We blew it and we are going to pay with our lives but don't worry about the planet, I reckon it will be around a long time after we stop hopping onto stacks of crates in our spare time!

[spunkey_monkey_boy]

i'm not suggesting shipping frames around the world is why climate change is happening, i was interested in if it had even crossed peoples minds that buying a taiwaneese frame is worse for the environment that buying a uk frame etc. trials riders on the whole are not particually environmentally damaging but we are all damaging the environment and its interesting to see all those who obviously don't care and all those who have the information so mixed up they cant acctually see the real picture.

ever though that maybe recycling is not the answer, not buying as much in the first place is?

ever thought that by changing uk emmissions we could help lead the way in environmental change?

read up about the natural climatic changes and it is BLANTANTLY OBVIOUS that this aint natural, there is NO QUESTION in the scientific world about the causes of accelerated climatic change - us

Theoretically global warming will make the planet a much harsher place to live for humans but you hear a lot of people saying "we are destroying the planet" The planet is hardcore, in its history it has been in loads of different states. We can wipe ourselves out and as soon as we are gone the planet will fix itself in a relatively short time. We blew it and we are going to pay with our lives but don't worry about the planet, I reckon it will be around a long time after we stop hopping onto stacks of crates in our spare time!

that is definately true in the physical sense that the planet has the time to recover as a solid object but in the gaian sense of the world (james lovelock's gaia hypothesis) we are all vital to the planets living survival. unfortuanelt its not just us humans who are going to get rinsed by climate change, 60% of the animal life on the planet is also heading towards its permenant coffin courtesy of us baby sitting them...

[Fish-Finger-er]

i thought id raise this in here,as it is something i thought of a few months back.

were all aware of obesity correct?? and ways that the governments trying to create a greener britain(the £1500windmills in b&q being a prime example).

now say we could do our bit to solve both at once. the way i see it, exercise bikes fitted with dynamos. the average person can cycle out about 120 watts comfortably. now if the government were to supply every household in britain with one of these at a low price(oap's etc excluded, as are those on disability,providing it isnt disability through obesity). cost to the government would be fairly low i should imagine,due to mass buying(much less than the £1100 it costs b&q to purchase a wind turbine) and would be subsidized as it would be both a green issue,and help with the health and fitness of the nation. everyone would be cuttin energy usage(4 person household, each on it for an hour a day 1/2kwh) admittedly itd be a small percentage of energy usage, but it would be something, would also encourage exercise, combating obesity, and possibly creating some future cycling stars in britain(Road and time trial obiviously).

also we all know diesel cars will run happily all year round on 50%diesel,50%cooking oil. its around half the price of diesel, now excluding the loss in tax of a couple of pence a litre to the government, why arent they placing just 10% cooking oil in directly at the pumps, low cost to the government, (in fact if they still charged the same price per litre, government would be losing nothing) would be cutting our fossil fuel use in that area by 10% reducing harmful emissions as well by a decent chunk. and generally doing our bit for the kyoto agreement. so whys it not done.....

cos the worlds run by oil tycoons, thats why.

i'm not suggesting shipping frames around the world is why climate change is happening, i was interested in if it had even crossed peoples minds that buying a taiwaneese frame is worse for the environment that buying a uk frame etc.

depends, id like to know the official stats on this, we all know the bigger the production scale, generally the more efficient it is(per unit), now is a company such as iolo,producing small numbers of frames,all one off's more efficient per unit than say deng after shipping,would like to know.because i think it would be relatively close.

yes obiviously it would be better if the frames were made on a large scale in the uk, but there isnt enough market for that to become economically viable, without exporting. which really puts us back to square one.

[spunkey_monkey_boy]

exercise bikes fitted with dynamos

the first idea was put to me by someone else in a slightly different thread of thought - their idea was to fit banks of dynamo bikes in prisons and instead of letting the robbing raping kiddie fidling scum sit around watching tv all day they could produce some energy for the rest of us. down side is a - i think it might be seen as facism b - the theiving robbing raping scum would be f**king fast at cycling/running away from the police when they come out of prison

thankfully someone else does see the world as it really is

cos the worlds run by oil tycoons, thats why.

[ogre]

i get the train to ride whenever i can(i.e riding anywhere than my local two towns cause theres no station in my village) bout the most enviromentaly freindly thing i do never really thought about it to be ohnest. how much danage can anodising do to the enviroment (and adam+dave)?

[spunkey_monkey_boy]

how much danage can anodising do to the enviroment (and adam+dave)?

anodising was and as far as i'm aware still is on eof the most environmentally damaging industrial processes there is, if using massive amounts of chemicals and is highly toxic.

buy painted, its much much much better (but still not great) for the environment

[Fish-Finger-er]

the first idea was put to me by someone else in a slightly different thread of thought - their idea was to fit banks of dynamo bikes in prisons and instead of letting the robbing raping kiddie fidling scum sit around watching tv all day they could produce some energy for the rest of us. down side is a - i think it might be seen as facism b - the theiving robbing raping scum would be f**king fast at cycling/running away from the police when they come out of prison

thankfully someone else does see the world as it really is

yea ive had that thought before too, it used to be done in the 1800's with great big rotary treadmills(imagine a water wheel).well i remember seeing a drawing of it in a history book back in yr9, could either be done the same way again, or with just individual bikes, hell if really needed could be done with weight machines.using a gearing system to make it harder to lift weights,but creating more power. would be reasonably economically viable too i would have thought, as the cost of the kind of weight machines used in proffessional gyms, and most likely prisons, is astronomical anyway.

[anzo]

Its all down to cost.

I noticed in B&Q they're selling wind turbines, on a leaflet you're entitled to a government grant for one and obviously, money off your bills. The Government funding is listed with terms and conditions as you'd expect for your annual electricity usage ect. Basically, you'll never get a grant, and even if you did, I doubt it would be much.

Not to mention the possible planning permission required, which will be accepted without a doubt...but then, who actually wants a massive frigging turbine on their garden? I dont.

And then theres the man in power telling us to 'catch buses'...yes, those buses that would cost me £3 per day, those buses that are always late, horrible to be on and are hardly road worthy.

£3 a DAY on the bus...or £5 a WEEK in the car? Easy choice.

Ok, its money at the end of the day, but £3 a day is a lot when its totalled up over the year, of course a car would be more, but I'm prepared to pay that 'more' when I can ride other places, get where a bus cant and also go WHEN I want.

I'm not prepared to make my life 3 times as difficult for the sake of having no car on the road, yes yes yes, its selfish and I'll accept that.

All this 'green' stuff is now being marketed, companies are using it as a tool to sell there shit to us. Ohhh, a greener boiler...yes, its fine for the rich folk who can sign their money away and have it changed in a day. What about the folks who can only just afford to put food on the table? They get taxed higher and higher becuase they can't afford to save energy in the first place and I'll think you'll find the percentage of people living in what is effectivly poverty is astounding.

I've gone a little off key on this rant, but its all on topic in the long run! Yes, its ok saying don't you use your car or buy British frames...but it just makes life difficult, something which is difficult enough.