Booze Tax

[anzo]

Just heard on the radio, something that had pissed me right off.

Patrica, the Labour Health Sec. has 'advised' Gordon Brown to up the tax on booze to cut down on binge drinking. Yet another suttle hint that 'all us young uns' are trouble causing louts.

Apparently its because 'a binge drinker' is everyone uner 25 who goes out and causes fights, smashes windows and uses up NHS resources...in labours eyes anyway.

So, we can drink, drive, smoke, have kids, be ill, use facilities such as gas or anything else thats remotely fun.

Opinions?

[Danny]

I say up the legal drinking age to 21

I've seen many programs on binge drinking on tv and the problem is largely with women more so then men. Any any fights you see between men are usually because of a woman. So yea lets just ban women from drinking. Er.. on second thoughts forget that because hows a man supposed to pull if their sober

[RicH_87]

I bet the MAJORITY of under 25's do get completely wasted every other day. That's a problem for the people concerned. The majority of city police work on a night is spent picking up drunken yobs and cleaning up their piss/sick from the back of their van.

A lot of problems stem from alchohol. Around my area i see loads of 14 year old pissed off their faces acting like they are 28 years old, and this is a fairly nice area to live. I can't imagine how bad it muct be in some other places.

By making it more expensive, everyone will be forced to buy less. The resonsible people will still be able to afford enough to have a good time, but the lay-abouts will have to budget and either only get smashed once a week, or just drink less on an evening.

Most people buy far too much alchohol anyway. I can't see why 5-10 bottles a night isn't enough, why get pissed then carry on drinking?

Just becasue you think you are responsible enough to deal with alchohol, doesn't mean the majority of people your age are. Underage drinking imo is a HUGE problem, and i'm actually glad to see they are doing something about it.

Kids of 14 should be down the park playing footy, or going to a judo class or something, not standing on a street corner with a crate of carling.

[medwaytrials]

I bet the MAJORITY of under 25's do get completely wasted every other day. That's a problem for the people concerned. The majority of city police work on a night is spent picking up drunken yobs and cleaning up their piss/sick from the back of their van.

A lot of problems stem from alchohol. Around my area i see loads of 14 year old pissed off their faces acting like they are 28 years old, and this is a fairly nice area to live. I can't imagine how bad it muct be in some other places.

By making it more expensive, everyone will be forced to buy less. The resonsible people will still be able to afford enough to have a good time, but the lay-abouts will have to budget and either only get smashed once a week, or just drink less on an evening.

Most people buy far too much alchohol anyway. I can't see why 5-10 bottles a night isn't enough, why get pissed then carry on drinking?

Just becasue you think you are responsible enough to deal with alchohol, doesn't mean the majority of people your age are. Underage drinking imo is a HUGE problem, and i'm actually glad to see they are doing something about it.

Kids of 14 should be down the park playing footy, or going to a judo class or something, not standing on a street corner with a crate of carling.

[andyroo]

Up drinking age to 21 to stop the 16 year olds getting in on it as easily

Up taxes on drink and fags so I don't have to give 22% of my hard earned to all the people in hospital from drinking too much or getting injured because of drinking

Put all alcohol in cans or plastic bottles, I'm fed up of smashed glass bottles everywhere, it does my nut in

[anzo]

They're not old enough to drink full stop. Why isn't it enforced properly?

Think about how about 90% who go out at the weekend do so for a good night out, the 10% are wankers just looking for fights. Why should that 80% suffer for what is in effect a minority?

Then theres the fact that if 'they' can't afford to get pissed, they'll turn to something else...drugs. Its actually cheaper to get f**kin cained out your face for a week then it is to go out for the night.

What about the people who drink in moderation? Go out for 2 pints after work, is it right they should have to pay extra because some dickhead cannot handle his/her drink?

We have the longest working hours in Europe and we're just not allowed to do anything anymore. Drinking, in the UK, is accepted as social, its a way of life for a lot of people. The tax on this will be the difference of f**k all, it'll be pence.

Although that 'pence' which is pocket change to us, to someone else it can be the difference of getting that bottle of whatever once a week when they're flat broke. And to them that one bottle is pretty much all they have to look forward to.

Taxing isn't the solution to anything, yet another stupid f**king idea.

[Ali C]

I dont drink, so it doesnt bother me, seems like a fairly good idea. Will have to see if it works or not.

[anzo]

My god. I can't believe some people are actually in support of this. I mean, its your opinion and thats fair enough. But at this rate you may aswell not even get paid to go to work.

I dont think many people are going to thing 'ah, it costs £2.80 a pint now...let go drink cola in the car park'. We've all seen the prices of booze at gigs, paying up to £3 a pint, but it doesn't stop anyone getting hammered...and you can say 'you dont have a choice but to pay that much'...but neither will you if they introduce this tax.

[Extreme_biker0]

They know very well that it will not make a very big (if any at all) difference on the amount of underage drinking.

But upon hearing this, people might think 'yeah! thats a good idea!' so basically they get to increase taxes without any loss in public opinion. This leaves the govornment with more money to spend how it will, be that improving healthcare, or compensating all those hard working politicians ;-)

It's not really going to fix anything, like I said, it's just another way of increasing tax.

Another recent example of this is all the taxes that are now levied for 'enviromentally friendly reasons'. I heard the other day on the news that they are thinking about putting an additional tax on all air flights.

Now obviously the idea here is that people wont fly because it's more expensive, thus we burn less fuel and save the world. However, this BBC news report was then followed up by people being interviewed on what they thought, and most were saying things like 'well, if it was only a few pounds that would be OK'. So what the hell is the point if it's not going to stop you flying?!

That money is not going to be spent inventing a machine that can take the CO2 out of the atmosphere now is it?

In addition, to drive to France in a 1.1l car would burn approximately as much fuel as flying there. Any larger car and you're burning more fuel than you would if you flew.

Money is the reason this tax will increase, not underage drinking. Underage drinking as a convenient problem that allows them to increase tax.

They probably wouldn't stop it if they could

Edited October 27, 2006 by Extreme_biker0

[RicH_87]

On the rare occasion I actually buy/drink alchohol (my dad makes his own), i buy it like i'd buy lemonade/coke/water.

I buy enough to have a nice drink, i don't buy more than i would normally drink of anything else.

When you are out riding and you stop at a shop, you don't buy 24 cans of coke do you?

Thats the way i am with alchoholic drinks.

I can see a LOT of people are gonna be beefing over this new law, but thats becasue they know in their hearts they drink too much. If they didn't drink too much, they wouldn't be worriying about how much it's gonna cost them.

You said 90% of people go out on a saturday to have fun. Yeh thats probably close to the truth, however the same 90% don't go out thinking "i'm gonna have a great time tonight without alchohol"....infact that 90% of people have usually had 5 pints of various alchoholic beverages before they've even left the house.

A good night out these days is almost entirely based around alchohol, and far too much of it. People will still be drinking, but instead of spending 70 on say 30+ drinks, they will be spending 70 on maybe 20 drinks max.

Maybe sooner or later they will realise their night out was just as good, if not better than when they had to get a mate to carry them home.

[Extreme_biker0]

On the rare occasion I actually buy/drink alchohol (my dad makes his own), i buy it like i'd buy lemonade/coke/water.

I buy enough to have a nice drink, i don't buy more than i would normally drink of anything else.

When you are out riding and you stop at a shop, you don't buy 24 cans of coke do you?

Thats the way i am with alchoholic drinks.

I can see a LOT of people are gonna be beefing over this new law, but thats becasue they know in their hearts they drink too much. If they didn't drink too much, they wouldn't be worriying about how much it's gonna cost them.

You said 90% of people go out on a saturday to have fun. Yeh thats probably close to the truth, however the same 90% don't go out thinking "i'm gonna have a great time tonight without alchohol"....infact that 90% of people have usually had 5 pints of various alchoholic beverages before they've even left the house.

A good night out these days is almost entirely based around alchohol, and far too much of it. People will still be drinking, but instead of spending 70 on say 30+ drinks, they will be spending 70 on maybe 20 drinks max.

Maybe sooner or later they will realise their night out was just as good, if not better than when they had to get a mate to carry them home.

You seem to be justifying the tax by our behaviour and that somehow the higher tax will stop this.

Well how come the UK already has one of the highest alcohol taxes around, yet elswhere in Europe binge drinking is not a problem?

You, my friend, are another sheep allowing the govornment to increase taxes ^^^

Edited October 27, 2006 by Extreme_biker0

[yoyoyo]

I don't drink so it doesn't bother me.

But at least on a friday/saturday night it will be slightly more peaceful out riding.

[RicH_87]

You seem to be justifying the tax by our behaviour and that somehow the higher tax will stop this.

Well how come the UK already has one of the highest alcohol taxes around, yet elswhere in Europe binge drinking is not a problem?

You, my friend, are another sheep allowing the govornment to increase taxes ^^^

I'm just basing my opinion on things i KNOW are true,

All of the people i know are ALWAYS complaining about their lack of money, yet all they spend it on is going out. Therefore it stands to reason, the more expensive the alchohol is, the less they will buy...therefore in theory, they won't drink so much, which is what binge drinking is....

What you are saying is that all these people will magically earn more money from nowhere, and therefore buy just as much drink as they did before? Where are they going to get this extra money from?

Almost everyone i know my age or younger, earns minimal amounts of money, and they spend it all on 4 main things, Phone, Car, Drink, Gym.... They have no extra money to dip into, in order to pay this extra tax.

Your comparison to air flights is of no relevance, flying on the whole is a once a month thing at the very most, spending a few extra pounds now and again doesn't effect anyone. However if you are buying something almost every day, and it suddenly goes up in price, it has a big effect.

Think about who exactly this tax is aimed at effecting. It's not aimed at the 27 year olds who buy a 6 pack on friday night after work and it's not aimed at people who buy a shit load of booze for special occasions, and drink a bottle of wine a week, becasue they can afford it. Its aimed at young people who spend 70% of their entire wage on alchohol, at least twice a week.

That's if they actually have a job....

Edited October 27, 2006 by RicH_87

[Extreme_biker0]

You're still saying that increasing the price lowers the consuption. I would disagree. It's a cultural problem that's the reason we drink so much.

You want to increase tax. All you're going to do is make all the young people in Britain broke, unable to afford houses, etc, which is a sorry state of affairs.

Instead, we need to sort out the behavioural problems which is the reason people drink. We drink partly becasue everyone else does, and partly because there is nothing else to do.

I would even go so far as to say, if you lowered taxes, you cut cut in HALF what I spend on drink in a month, and I could use that extra money to go and do something else.

Hense lowering taxes rather than raising them could be the best way.

but hey, who the f**k's gonna pass that law, it lowers govornment revenue!

Edited October 27, 2006 by Extreme_biker0

[RicH_87]

I agree 100% that the tax alone won't solve the problem. I stongly believe alot of young peope today aren't guided properly on a lot of things, they seem to grow up so quick becasue as soon as they are 13 they act like they are 18. And it's true lack of MOTIVATION is the main reason people don't do anything nowadays, they either can't be bothered, or they think its 'uncool'. There are plently of things to do, if you are willing to spend your booze money on it.

However by making it more expensive i think a lot of people will either buy less, or just go out once a week.

I say that becasue all i hear is people complaining about how little money they have, and usually they come to the conclusion they will only go out when they can afford it....not go out anyway and borrow money from where ever.

Anyway, i guess we'll see if it has any effect in the next few months, especially around new years. I guess it would be better if they raised them for a certain period to see if it changes anything, if not then they can put it back and try something else.

[Extreme_biker0]

I agree 100% that the tax alone won't solve the problem. I stongly believe alot of young peope today aren't guided properly on a lot of things, they seem to grow up so quick becasue as soon as they are 13 they act like they are 18. And it's true lack of MOTIVATION is the main reason people don't do anything nowadays, they either can't be bothered, or they think its 'uncool'. There are plently of things to do, if you are willing to spend your booze money on it.

However by making it more expensive i think a lot of people will either buy less, or just go out once a week.

I say that becasue all i hear is people complaining about how little money they have, and usually they come to the conclusion they will only go out when they can afford it....not go out anyway and borrow money from where ever.

Anyway, i guess we'll see if it has any effect in the next few months, especially around new years. I guess it would be better if they raised them for a certain period to see if it changes anything, if not then they can put it back and try something else.

You're naive to think they will lower the tax once they've raised it, unless some SERIOUS shit kicks off.

And also people will get into debt. Every other advert on the TV is some 'debt solutions' company, because it is a thriving business.

Anyway FYI we won't see any effects until new years 2008, seeing as there isn't another budget until April 2007.

[Caleb]

if they were truely interested in lowering binge drinking, like extreme biker says they should lower tax.

if a pint was £1.40 i could get pretty wrecked off about £17 or so.

however because a pint up town is usually £2.60 it costs a lot more, and if they increased that even more it would be pathetic.

i usually drink brandy and spirits before i go out and go to the cheap bars before getting to the better clubs with bigger prices.

there would be no need in taking out £70 odd if drinks were cheaper.

dont get me wrong im a student and manage well on £20 a night somehow so wouldnt affect me too much.

cant really think of any solution for them earning more revenue though , maybe charging immigrants to come into our country

[the judge]

if they were truely interested in lowering binge drinking, like extreme biker says they should lower tax.

if a pint was £1.40 i could get pretty wrecked off about £17 or so.

Would that not encourage binge drinking though? Making it cheaper and easier?

[Extreme_biker0]

Would that not encourage binge drinking though? Making it cheaper and easier?

It doesn't in other countries.

Edited October 27, 2006 by Extreme_biker0

[the judge]

It doesn't in other countries.

This isn't an other country though is it. Making alcohol cheaper won't change the population of England's ideologies will it, they won't think "oh what fools we've been, I'm going to go out just drinking socially and not getting completely wasted from now on". Don't get me wrong I don't think that increasing tax will stop the problem, but I just think that neither will lowering the price.

[Extreme_biker0]

This isn't an other country though is it. Making alcohol cheaper won't change the population of England's ideologies will it, they won't think "oh what fools we've been, I'm going to go out just drinking socially and not getting completely wasted from now on". Don't get me wrong I don't think that increasing tax will stop the problem, but I just think that neither will lowering the price.

But neither will it make the problem worse, as you suggested it would.

Edited October 27, 2006 by Extreme_biker0

[the judge]

But neither will it make the problem worse, as you suggested it would.

I think it would though. We'll just have to agree to disagree

[Extreme_biker0]

I think it would though. We'll just have to agree to disagree

I'll drink to that

[the judge]

I'll drink to that

Not too much though eh

[anzo]

They did the same thing with smoking. Taxation on fags is massive, does it stop anyone smoking? Does it f**k.

Its to 'prevent people starting'...people don't start smoking by going into the shop and saying 'oh, i might have a pack of fags today'. People are given fags from mates and the habbit begins from there. It 'drives' people away by saying 'I can't afford fags'...but its hard to stop.

I drink because I WANT TO. It's my choice whether or not I have one pint, 5, 10 or whatever. Governments can't deside it, I go to work and pay a shit load of money towards taxs and NI, its my right to do if I want to.

And if its unhealty, I dont give a shit. What isn't unhealthy?

Its the 'People in Power' who never grew up, they went from 17 years old to 50 and never did 'anything wrong'. Booze isn't the cheapest thing here, but its one of the cheapest things to do at the weekend. You can't Sugar the pill and say its pathetic, its not. Generations have done it before us, and they'll carry on doing it.

There is simply very little to do at weekends, I like to go out, get drunk and meet up with mates...a waste of a weekend? Maybe, but I enjoy it.

I've been working my f**king arse off for a week, for some guy in another country. Yes, the wage is good, but its not worth a week of my life. 21 days A YEAR holiday, I get a handful of my wage taken off me, and get left with 'my' money, which is spend on things I WANT...but no, the government says I cant do it because its unhealthy...

I know I'm starting to sound like a right anarchist alcoholic, but seriously, you're paying for other peoples f**king retardedness.

Edited October 27, 2006 by anzo