Mark W Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I think I kinda prefer their normal look... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Cox Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 dependent on how high that onza frame goes i might have to purchase it, looks damn sexy plus it will be unique Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Some stupid twat's already put a bid on it.Why the f**k would you do that? It's got 9 days to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bEavoLa Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Why dont you go and moan about the zona zip, zenith, czar ivan, all the other similar frames out there?there's not enough time...that's why!whatever happened to innovation? whatever happened to 'taking a risk?' (okay - Koxx got it a bit wrong with the V2 Proto - but at least they TRIED something different!)i've already ragged on the Zona Zip and Zenith...excuse me for not going all "gaga" over what is NOT a new frame design! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 whatever happened to innovation? 5 of the 2006 prototypes. They showed 4 or 5 totally new frame prototypes in 2005 as well, but I couldn't be arsed searching for the thread 'cos it was probably just going to be dead-link city.You may not like those frames (although I'm <3 ing the top one), but to say they're not trying new stuff is selling them a bit short? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat hudson Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 there's not enough time...that's why!whatever happened to innovation? whatever happened to 'taking a risk?' (okay - Koxx got it a bit wrong with the V2 Proto - but at least they TRIED something different!)i've already ragged on the Zona Zip and Zenith...excuse me for not going all "gaga" over what is NOT a new frame design! you just dont get it, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Seems to be a weird double-standard going on with trials frames too... If someone brings out a 'traditional' mtb-style frame for trials (e.g. 24" or just a 26" like Akriggs) everyone creams over them even though they're all almost identical looks-wise, yet even if alu "pure" trials frames have different tubing junctions 'n' stuff people go "Oh, it's just another silver frame"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bEavoLa Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 you just dont get it, do you?obviously not.seeing as you DO get it, care to explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Elding Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 youre a f**king nobber. what else is there to explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bEavoLa Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 youre a f**king nobber. what else is there to explain?spoken like a true 10-year old - well done. now sit down and drink your milk while the grown-ups talk.my point was that if it's OK to rip off other people's frame designs then the market is going to stagnate with dozens of frames all looking the same.but if that's the point, then 'what's the point?' if all you want are anonymous frames then you're welcome to them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walleee Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 my bad - i should have said:"thats definately just a rip-off copy of the GU frame with an Onza headtube though..." how long did that sucker take to think up? 10...15seconds?"hey - i've got a great idea for a frame?""yeah - what's that?""lets just copy the GU Typhoon...and slap our headtube on the copy of the frame!""WOOT...that's deffo *** - lets go to lunch!"boo, Onza...boo You hard b*****d.[attachmentid=6776]The market is no-where near 'stagnating', Onza/mike have done a shit load of work for the trials community, making bikes more accesible to those who arn't 100% sure they want to commit to the sport. Along with a tonne of other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 spoken like a true 10-year old - well done. now sit down and drink your milk while the grown-ups talk.my point was that if it's OK to rip off other people's frame designs then the market is going to stagnate with dozens of frames all looking the same.but if that's the point, then 'what's the point?' if all you want are anonymous frames then you're welcome to them... Was post #30 just fully invisible then or something? I hope that means I haven't been put in the Ignore list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poopipe Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) Poopipe would have three........depends which topcap they choose - there's a choice of three shapesedit: christ i'm slow today. I could have one of each Edited August 31, 2006 by poopipe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bEavoLa Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 no, post #30 was fully visible and i commend Onza for doing the R&D to come up with those frames (the Mod and the 3rd frame are especially sweet), but why after all that are they selling what is essentially a GU copy?i openly respect any company that goes that extra mile to do something new and bring a different edge to the sport but apparently there's some 'point' that i'm missing...maybe it's that it was a financial decision to go with an already proven design (knowing that people had already ridden the GU Typhoon frame and respect the Onza brand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Research and design generally requires money. Getting Taiwan to make you a one-off prototype requires money.Selling frames at a good price to customers gets you money.Therefore, if you get money from that, you can pump it back into R&D work and funding development schemes? Not only that, but not everyone wants to pay £300+ for a frame, so they're opening up the market. Without them releasing the Zip, the entire HoD™ range wouldn't be as cheap as it is now. When the Zip was released at £199, they dropped the price of the Python and Pitbull (and rest of the range followed suit) simply 'cos they knew they'd have to compete. As it is, the Zip's dropped in price again but it still wasn't enough to take sales back from Zoo, but either way, customers as a whole benefited from this. Notice now as well how Koxx are releasing their frames under other names than Koxx so they can sell them at a reduced price without tarnishing their "Exclusive/elite" reputation? Everyone's doing it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bEavoLa Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Research and design generally requires money. Getting Taiwan to make you a one-off prototype requires money.Selling frames at a good price to customers gets you money.Therefore, if you get money from that, you can pump it back into R&D work and funding development schemes? Not only that, but not everyone wants to pay £300+ for a frame, so they're opening up the market. Without them releasing the Zip, the entire HoD™ range wouldn't be as cheap as it is now. When the Zip was released at £199, they dropped the price of the Python and Pitbull (and rest of the range followed suit) simply 'cos they knew they'd have to compete. As it is, the Zip's dropped in price again but it still wasn't enough to take sales back from Zoo, but either way, customers as a whole benefited from this. Notice now as well how Koxx are releasing their frames under other names than Koxx so they can sell them at a reduced price without tarnishing their "Exclusive/elite" reputation? Everyone's doing it...fair enough - thanks for that (150% more usefull than "you just don't get it do you?") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 my point was that if it's OK to rip off other people's frame designs then the market is going to stagnate with dozens of frames all looking the same.Not many frames are 'ripped off'. Each version, where ever it comes from, has a tweak here, a tweak there...At the end of the day there are only so many variations on how you design a bike. Once the axles, BB shell and head tube are set, almost everything else is window dressing. Joining two bits of tube with CNC plates differently is still two bits of tube joined by a CNC plate.To me, the land marks in frame geometry (for 26" anyway) in my eleven years of riding are:1) Proper trials frames. Hawyes Giant, Pashley 26MHz, Orange Zero, Pace RC-250T, etc...2) The original Koxx Levelboss - long bikes arrive3) The Koxx Vinco - BB's head skywards.Now Leeson have some phenomenal engineering and design touches on their bikes, Zoo/Echo/whatever have produced great evolutions on current design philosophies, but these arn't quantum leaps. This also doesn't take into account the great work Onza has done producing frames that would have £700 in the Crescent days for £300, and they're trying things. No doubt Deng is banging out prototypes too which we never see.Kris and Clive have reaffirmed my faith in their work with the 2win. A gorgeous, true custom bike. I'm sure there are all kinds of designs floating around which will keep us salivating for many years to come. No doubt Deng will roll out more CNC goodies, Charge will hopefully bring their all-round bike to market, and there will be something for everyone.So, in conclusion, we've never had it so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bEavoLa Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 all very good points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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