A Thought That Came To Me While Drivin Home Today!

[ben_travis]

So basically your not invited if you aint prepared to put some thought into your reply. Please read the topic properly and lets have a proper discussion. now look below the line and let me know

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A long time ago, i think it was prawn or maybe it was smithy..... BUT basically at the time he wanted to learn how to hook, and his topic basically stated that it seamed what set the good riders ( hermance/cousts etc) at the time out from the normal riders (me and u) and how was it so hard to hook.

Its fairly obvious that we normal riders are always one step behind techniques and levels of riding of the pro's. We tend to learn the moves after we see them in vids or some of the UK's top riders begin to learn them off the pro's and then apply them and it kind of filters around. Left right and centre people are able to now hook etc, while many are still not able to.

Basically, after seeing how many people were 'bumming' tunni's bunnyhops to front wheel on post boxes i kind of thought, what moves are we seeing now that set the pro's out from the normals, like i saw moves in koxx days vids that i never thought would be possible.

so what limits are the pro's setting and what moves are they doing that pushes their abilities?

p.s this is not a "what is ur favourite move" question. its about learning why the pro's are much better than us and WHY..........

[Mark W]

Pretty much everything to front, basically? I suppose it depends on how far back you're willing to look to see what moves the "pro" riders were doing, e.g. Hans Rey rolling over cars on a Schwinn cruiser in the 80's is slightly different to Ashton doing a 14ft drop in the 90's which is slightly different to Hermance gapping 3 miles to front in the '00's. Either way, moves to front wheel seem to have been spawned after seeing Euro riders doing them more. Upping to front even used to be (maybe still is? ) called "Cousthopping" after all. I still reckon that the Coustellier vid Ad Read did when Gilles and Giacomo came to Nottingham accelerated the rate of progression of UK trials more than almost all other videos that have been released (with the exception of 1 or 2 TK vids, and maybe some CLS/Tunni vids)...

[munkee]

the Coustellier vid Ad Read did when Gilles and Giacomo came to Nottingham accelerated the rate of progression of UK trials more than almost all other videos that have been released

f**kING FACT

That video blew my mind open.. It was one of the first videos that showed the pro's on home ground and what could be achieved.

Edited June 19, 2006 by Spacemunkee

[MrSuave]

i was lucky enough to go to koxx days and watched nigh on every top rider going and what seemed to be the gapping difference between them and us 'normos' was the mistakes in sections. not only did they do huge super technical moves but they would pull them everytime, no questions asked.

i was watching along with many others, hermance and gilles coustellier practice sidehopping up this rocky walled area. the sidehop was around, at a guess, about 52". which is pretty massive in itself. but it wasn't the size that impressed me the most, it was the fact that the take off was basicly damp and sandy and covered in roots. the landing was also not square, the back end needed to go higher than the front and there were just so many factors that made it difficult and neither of them could make it, they must have had 6/7 goes each but in the end they both got it bang on. they didn't break a sweat. didn't get annoyed and didn't give up, the sheer determination and willingness to put in hours after hours of practice everyday is what gives them their edge i would say.

As for particular moves i would say upping from very short runups is a big one and as said above, gaps to front plus sheer balance....

MrSuave

[Scotty Evil1]

I think what makes the top guys ride that much harder and the thing that makes them learn every technique in every form of it, useing long run ups, short run ups, doing it to the left, to the right etc.

Is because the HAVE to.

If they go to a competiton and theres a sidehop from a slopped take off going to their wrong side, they have to be able to do it, they cant just go " oh i cant sidehop left well, so i wont do it." they must do it, if they want to do well.

Thats why i think( my opinion) competition riders are that much better than pure street riders.

Comp riders have to learn techniques if they want to make it through sections.

Whereas street riders *usually* just learn moves because there the thing of the month. they are usually learnt on a nice square wall with as much run up as i like, and once they learn it, thats it, they can just repeat it all the time,unlike in a comp, where no 2 obstacles are ever usually the same......

Scott

[ben_travis]

Thats why i think( my opinion) competition riders are that much better than pure street riders.

Scott

well, i wouldnt say COMP riders, i think people who ride natural and street are generally going to be more skilled than just one or the other. u dont have to ride COMPS to be skilled. if you see what i mean.

but valid points so far.

anymore?

[durkie]

This was something I was wondering, mostly because of a few months ago when this year's koxx days videos came out. It seemed like a good year-long milestone for "state-of-the-art trials has progressed this much since last year". But no...the koxx days videos this year looked a lot like the ones from previous years. Practically indistinguishable. So I wonder, just how is everyone improving then? Are things topping out or am I just missing it?

[Brian Bleech]

This was something I was wondering, mostly because of a few months ago when this year's koxx days videos came out. It seemed like a good year-long milestone for "state-of-the-art trials has progressed this much since last year". But no...the koxx days videos this year looked a lot like the ones from previous years. Practically indistinguishable. So I wonder, just how is everyone improving then? Are things topping out or am I just missing it?

Nah I don’t think they are topping out, but I think when the coust vid came out (isn’t that wall still called the coust wall too) it’s like all of a sudden the bar was raised (even though the pros had been refining the techniques for years, we just hadn’t seen much of them) and then the whole uci riding style became popular.

But since that coust vid and just seeing more vids of pros, the public (that us folks) has just really seen a more gradual improvement from them there hasn’t been any truly ‘woah wtf’ videos appearing that have had the same impact as the coust vid.

The comp guys are so good at everything ‘pure’ trials, because they have to ride the most awkward/difficult things/lines/sections they can find, whereas we have the luxury of not being bothered if we want!

[TrashZen]

Interesting topic!

Mostly already stated, but ... the big difference is riding natural, and pulling the same moves that are difficult enough when everything is square and dry dusted... onto wet slippery uneven terrain, with enough smoothness to avoid a hard crash.

Which means, a lot more precision and control than just pulling a big move in itself, it's pulling it onto something more challenging.

I think what really makes the difference to be able to process all these factors in your brain is a huge ability to focus on their next move.

Edited June 20, 2006 by TrashZen

[Mark W]

well, i wouldnt say COMP riders, i think people who ride natural and street are generally going to be more skilled than just one or the other. u dont have to ride COMPS to be skilled. if you see what i mean.

but valid points so far.

anymore?

Correct. I've seen some truly talentless riders riding comps, just getting by by going from pedal to bash to two wheels up everything in sight. It seems a lot of riders can get through comps not by being good at riding, but just from having good tactics and knowing when to do strategic dabs and so on. The whole "Lock the brakes and boon" crew are only one side of the comp scene I guess, even if from the riders I've seen it makes up quite a few of the numbers of "amateur" riders. The top level riders are amazing on street too though, and you can tell they do a lot of street as well as natural. They both feed off each other though I guess, as in one benefits the other. For bike control though, I think you gain more from riding natural than from riding street. If you look at Stan Shaw, he owns natural as much as he owns street, yet you get some of the street riders who aren't that far off Stan on street, but at natural they're really wank.

[philking]

Good topic. If i was to say one thing that really seperates us lot from top pros then i would say riding switch foot. To see Vince pull moves with his bad foot bigger than i can do with my good foot is quite amazing! However, seeing as this topic is open to debate, here goes:

Hermance videos and coust vids are unfortunatly getting less exiting because what they are doing is only getting slighty better. When the coust vid, mentioned above, first came out everyone in british trials sh*t themselves! It was a point of suddenly realising how far ahead of us pros are. I think it didnt really hit me how much the pros sh*t on all of us. And suddenly everyone decided it was time to get better. Not only that but i suddenly started downloading more vids, so watching the progression is now much slower. Unfortunaly i now hardly see a vid which makes me think, Holy Crap! because if hermance or whoever does pull a new personal best it is often only a tiny bit bigger than what i have previously seen. BUT... (not very often) i do sometimes see one of the top riders do a move that makes me think oh my god, i am still so behind that lot... and re-inspires to improve much like that famous coust vid a couple of years back.

[bEavoLa]

what blows me away?

pretty much anything that Chris Akrigg does.

i mean - i'm still waiting for my copy of "Coming Up For Air" to arrive (half the problem of moving to the USA i guess!!!), but i've seen that boy do things (i mean...they're 'tricks' essentially) that just blow my mind

for example: endo to reverse wheelie (i.e. wheelieing backwards) to forward wheelie to touch-up over wall

granted, Akrigg is more of a 'street' rider than comp, but look at some of his old comp vids (on that T-Raptor) and you'll also see some incredible riding

added to that are some HUGE moves, some of THE BIGGEST sidehops in the business and an uncanny ability to defy gravity that just makes everything look easy.

and finally - the "Trials Noir" attitude itself: going that extra bit to challenge yourself and trying moves that would be suicidal to anyone with lesser abilities. like approaching a 6" wide, 4' wall (from the skinny side) at full speed, "suicide" grip (no brake coverage), hopping to rear and manualling the wall's length...all from switch foot position too.

balls. BIG balls and a shedload of talent

[chrishayton]

The thing that seperates them is ability to pull the moves over and over again, for when they need to in comps. they pull bigger moves than most of the best riders in this country off awful slippy slanty take offs. there natural riding abilty completly over shadows nearly everyone else. theres few moves that cant be learnt be a good rider but its harder to ride the sections in pro comps and thats what seperate them.

Edited June 21, 2006 by chrishayton