Danno Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 After reading a topic in new members entitled 'what was your first bike' got me thinking of how trials bikes/frames have changed in their design and geometry over the last 5/6 years....Take a look at some of these bike from 2000/01:Martyn Ashton's CannondalePeter Kraus Orange ZeroThen compared to the 'modern' days trials bike:Echo Hi FiKoxx Marc VincoThese examples may be on the extreme side of things as you still have short bikes now Leeson, Ashton etc. But i think this shows you how much trials bikes have changed over the last few years (Obviously there is older trials bikes then the two I have put, but I think that trials company's have only started getting big in the last 5/6 years).So the question that is in my mind is: how will trials bikes change in the nxt 5 or 6 years? personally I couldn't imagine it, some of the frames around now are just crazy designs...Dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 (edited) There were extremes back then too....Edit, f**k sake sorry about the picture size. Edited June 1, 2006 by jake1516 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Geary Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 What the hell is that hump of shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted June 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 (edited) There were extremes back then too....Yes there were some extreme designs as well, also this thing:However I used the Cannondale and the Orange Zero as they were generally what most bikes around that time looked like in design/geometry.But what do people think trials bikes will be like in another 5/6 years? e.g even higher bb's with longer chainstays etcDan. Edited June 1, 2006 by Danno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Yes there were some extreme designs as well, also this thing:However I used the Cannondale and the Orange Zero as they were generally what most bikes around that time looked like in design/geometry.But what do people think trials bikes will be like in another 5/6 years? e.g even higher bb's with longer chainstays etcDan.I remember thinking that thing looked the dogs balls.This thread cannot possibly have a conclusion, who cares what trials bike's look like in 5-6 years time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 The Vario wasn't a bad frame for it's time - I had one too (although it didn't have a disk mount!!). Back then, you could buy Monty/Megamo frames, Pashley and Brisa, and the Giant's were starting to appear. The Ashton replica didn't count, as it wasn't really a trials frame. Nowadays we're spoilt for choice!!The Cannondale pictured above had pretty good geometry - similar, I'm guessing, to the first Justice frames, which for a short bike were damn good. Some frames had truly shocking geometry, like the Rockhound, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 The Cannondale pictured above had pretty good geometry - similar, I'm guessing, to the first Justice frames, which for a short bike were damn good. Rumour has it that the Cannondales Martyn rode were not factory specials that he developed or anything like that. They actually rode pretty badly, but he got away with it because they were light.Oh, and they broke. A lot.Would still love one to hang on the wall though. A single object defining my path to trials enlightenment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Those two were tiny compared to what we used to ride...But yeah, it does make me wonder if frame sizes are gonna get any smaller, BBs are gonna get any higher...or is there some other thing that someone in their infinite wisdom will decide is now the 'most important thing' in frame/bike design? All of a sudden we might be obsessed with head tube length or something...One thing's for sure: everyone will still be using maggies (or at least until someone comes out with a cheap taiwanese copy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 carboninternal gearstwin diskstublessinternal hosesbetter forksI all think those will become more common Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Those two were tiny compared to what we used to ride...But yeah, it does make me wonder if frame sizes are gonna get any smaller, BBs are gonna get any higher...or is there some other thing that someone in their infinite wisdom will decide is now the 'most important thing' in frame/bike design? All of a sudden we might be obsessed with head tube length or something...One thing's for sure: everyone will still be using maggies (or at least until someone comes out with a cheap taiwanese copy)I imagine head angle will play a major role too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Rumour has it that the Cannondales Martyn rode were not factory specials that he developed or anything like that. They actually rode pretty badly, but he got away with it because they were light.Interesting. Still, I sympathised when his bike got nicked at Bike 99(?) and he had to ride that standard XC frame with Headshok forks. That must have been a bitch to ride.Look what I found! A photo of some of my old frames! The blue and yellow one is a 12.5" GT Arrowhead, my first trials frame. Super-steep head angle, especially with Fatty's, and a bottom bracket that literally dragged on the floor. Oh, and your foot hit the front wheel when you turned... Also my old Vario (with chainstays rewelded), and one of Akrigg's old Pace's which I bought but never used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamtrials Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Wow how did you get akriggs pace?How can ashtons old frames not be specials if the seat tube is 2 inches smaller than the normal ashton replica? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trials_pimp Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I remember when I 1st Started (7 years ago) the only frame you could buy were the Ashton Beast Of the East, @ £700.Unless you wanted a ModIve seen 100s of changes in design and build. Now there are too many, and I cant be assed to keep up.Heres some of the Rad frames I rememberHeavy ToolsRocket FAB Pro TrialsGiant MK1 (Round tubing)Mission trials ProMission trails MasterDMR sidekick (the worst frame ever to be advertised as trials)Pashley 26MHZVario TiboDiamondback trialRaleigh Special Products Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Yeah, I remember Baz H used to have a Cannondale - didn't it get nicked or something?adamtrials - the 'replica' frame was just a Beast of the East frame with a different finish. It was nothing like the frames Martyn/Lance/Tibo used. So I'm not sure where they came from - probably only Martyn himself can answer that.The Heavy Tools frames were damn good geometry for the time, and light too. Also the Diamondback Tibo was dead nice, with geometry almost the same as the Vario. All this super-long high bb stuff is just crap... Let's go back to '99!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 carbonNot durable enough. Carbon has a strange property where an inital impact - say a crash - causes delamination between the layers of carbon, but it happens inside the walls of a tube or monocoque. As a result you're riding a knackered frame which looks fine. The next big hit, it will fail catastrophically.Also carbon doesn't dent, it just fails. I wouldn't trust it for a day to day bike. Maybe a comp special, that's all.internal gearsMany advantages, but just too heavy and complex. There would also be a problem with reliability as they currently don't handle high torque loads well. It would take someone like Rohloff to design a trials specific internal gear.The best way I could see of using it though would be to have a gearbox design like the Honda DH bikes. Almost a front freewheel, with a fixed rear cog, and a short joining chain going upto the Rohloff gear box partway up the seat tube. Not a simple design, but would be an interesting ride.Get Aran to make one twin disksWhen they're great, discs should be the way forward. tublessAgain, certainly a good step for trials, but can we seal tubeless tyres effectively with the way trials riders twist and roll them? I think the next couple of years will see people trying this more and more with DH and freeride rims.internal hosesThis is too fiddly and expensive for most frames. Maybe a few people will on small run bikes, but internal cables and hoses have been around for donkeys years, and manufacturers still keep going back to external routing.better forksWe've waited this long, I don't see these coming any time soon All good points though Mr C! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Bleech Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I remember when I 1st Started (7 years ago) the only frame you could buy were the Ashton Beast Of the East, @ £700.Unless you wanted a ModIve seen 100s of changes in design and build. Now there are too many, and I cant be assed to keep up.Heres some of the Rad frames I rememberHeavy ToolsRocket FAB Pro TrialsGiant MK1 (Round tubing)Mission trials ProMission trails MasterDMR sidekick (the worst frame ever to be advertised as trials)Pashley 26MHZVario TiboDiamondback trialRaleigh Special Productspretty sure that was just a small atx990 frame - just a small xc framethe sunn frames were ones were awesomeas for the future higher bbs with longer stays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmike Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Again, certainly a good step for trials, but can we seal tubeless tyres effectively with the way trials riders twist and roll them? I think the next couple of years will see people trying this more and more with DH and freeride rims.Atlthough biut durnk, i have tubeles sfor now 7 months!1it s perfect on front s but not so goos on rewar, very hirhg presuered needes!eypect thisw post to be dčleleted tomorr,w hahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Atlthough biut durnk, i have tubeles sfor now 7 months!1it s perfect on front s but not so goos on rewar, very hirhg presuered needes!eypect thisw post to be dčleleted tomorr,w hahaha! Delete this, Drunkard Recon susp. will slowly creap its way into trials. And like Ali said double discs being used now, so companies will/should be developing better more competant rear discs (I know the hope trial is good, but things can only get better ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 pretty sure that was just a small atx990 frame - just a small xc frameYou're right, it was an ATX in the smallest size (14" I think), and hence the geometry wasn't anything special. Sexy little bike though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trials_pimp Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Yeah, I remember Baz H used to have a Cannondale - didn't it get nicked or something?no its sat in his garage.Was built up as a jump bike not long agao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Someone mentioned the Releigh trials bike, The paint job on that was absoutley f**king sexual...Someone get a picture of it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Bleech Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Someone mentioned the Releigh trials bike, The paint job on that was absoutley f**king sexual...Someone get a picture of it.....this one...why does he look like a midget in one of the pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 iv got 2 paces JUST like those of Ian's.one is one of the old ones and one is the new one (proto type ones) but im keeping hold of them purely as no one makes a frame like pace did, they WERE the best machines ever.Bring back the ERA of 99' like Ian said. top bannanaWaynio...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Get Aran to make one That made me laugh To be honest, it's going to be hard to tell what frames will be like in 5 years time, but when I get there, I'll let you know...Probably in a thread like this one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 MAGNETS!!!!you heard it here first guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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