New Or Old School?

[UrbanLegend]

Been having this discussion a fair bit recently... Just wondered what everyone else thought?

Both times have their pro's and con's, but I think I prefer the good old days, when trials was still relatively small... Not every joe schmo had a trials bike, new moves and techniques seemed to be coming out every other week... It wasn't all about how high and how far. The Martins were at their peak, no one gave two shits about how long your frame was, everything just seemed so much simpler...

(Also the weather seemed to be constantly sunny, although my mind may be deceiving me on that )

I'm definitely not having less fun now, and obviously it's good how far trials has come over the years I've been riding... I just can't help but miss the old days!

Just to clarify, Old Skool does not mean a few years ago, I'm talking PROPER old skool, when we rode the smallest shortest frames (xc/dual slalom ), FSA Sidewinders and Shimano hubs... There was no such thing as Trials Forum (oh my god!!!111 can you imagine a world without!!) This probably rules out at least 75% of the forum, but hey...

Edited May 23, 2006 by UrbanLegend

[trialsguru]

another thing ive noticed is that trials riders just dont talk to each other anymore, like years ago you would shit yourself if you even thought you saw a glimer of another trials bike/rider, now kids on trials bikes just ride past you and dont bother talking to you. even if you go up to them and try chating to them theyre mostly nob heads that asked for a trials bike of mummy and daddy instead of pocket money.

anyways ride what you like, when you like, be sound and dont care about what latest deng product is coming in pink

[plainlazy84]

I voted oldskool, but I guess thats because the black and white days were when Trials was pretty much my life, I rode every day i could, when I wasnt riding I was thinking/ chatting about Trials on t'internet,. Nowerdays I have other priorities in my life and Trials is by no means number one anymore. I wouldnt necessarily say that my falling interest was because of a change in the scene, more just a change in lifestyle.

Having said that though, the comp scene does seem pretty shitty from what I have read compared to the fairly laid back ones I entered around 2000-2001. Im not saying that its definitly like that as I havent been to a comp in ages, but the petty squables and conflict I read about on here doesnt bode well.

I'd be interested to hear newer riders views on the old skool scene (from videos pics they've seen) and I can imagine that to them it all looks really lame. The riding standard was no where near as good but the scene was small but together. I know what you mean about the shock of seeing another Trials rider about and then more often than not being able to go up to them and have a good chat. Does that still happen anymore? I havent been on a big ride for too long

[Mark W]

I still wag my tail if I see a rider somewhere, just 'cos with my trials background it was super rare to ever see another rider. I hadn't seen a Magura or someone backwheeling a wall in real life for the first year I rode, to give you a clue

To be honest though, reminiscing aside, I prefer trials now. There are some undesirable aspects, but the fact you can get a super good bike for such little money that'll allow you to reach your potential better than a shed of a bike would, the fact there are so many more choices of parts to use, so many more spares, so much easier access to good parts and so on - it's just cool. Not to mention the videos out now that show the upper limits of trials and how far you can take it, although I guess next month or something there'll be some amazing new vid that redefines the limits (e.g. CLS's next vids, judging from the pics on his site ), but even so - it's just cool that there are so many people going so big and doing cool streety stuff too. I dunno, I just like it I guess...

[Greetings]

I think that oldschool riding can still be observed in countries like Australia, the States or Canada. It's all about how big the trials scene in a country is. If you've got 100 riders in each city, which I believe is possible, this sport will no longer be perceived as something unique, but yet another area in which people compete ammong each other. This leads to behaviours which spoil the sport.

Because trials is progressing in a fast rate, riders want to find the bike which suits them best. And this is why we'll soon be able to buy about 40 Echo Group frames (fact), have a great choice of stems, bars and forks.

I know you're relating new school riding to what people did in the mid 90's but still, if I could, I'd love to travel back 5 years, which is when I started riding. The sport was more colourful. Videos were hard to find or download. People were admiring the Americans (!!), ie. Stephen Maeder (sp), watching Chainspotting over and over again, day after day. There were so few riders "on the net", that when I wrote biketrials.com an e-mail with instructions on using Monty pine-spray, I promptly got a reply asking if I wouldn't like to be Polands' biketrials ambassador on their website.

"My god, I know somebody who can jump on the rear wheel like 200 times" - that was far more impressive than hearing that Mr Smith has done St. Pauls gap both ways today. There are a few things that annoy me in trials nowadays. Front wheel ups onto rails, dropgaps (they REALLY piss me off), people doing nothing but sidehops or taps, rails. There's just too much of this, yet we have a choice of what we watch on the videos. I particularly like the Braunschweig vids because they don't do all this silly stuff but ride trials the way it used to be ridden many years ago.

Trialsguru mentioned the riders themselves. Because the sport is becoming more and more popular and there are more and more riders, many people dislike each other (which is by all means normal). However what really pisses me off are silly theoretical discussions about frame geometry, tire compound and so on. For god sake, for at least 2.5 years of riding I didn't know the wheelbase of my bike, nor the chainstays, nor the weight and I was bloody happy with what I had. Now, before getting a new frame, people will be contemplating for many days or even weeks, thinking about whether to buy a frame with 30mm bb rise or 50mm bb rise. A few years ago nobody would even be interested in that (or even know what bb rise is!!), and would still be happy - now that's what matters most.

Nowadays, the trials scene is partly spoiled by young people who don't know how to behave themselves. Some are really appalling, thank god the youngest rider in my city is 17, and most are over 20 years old. It really changes things when you're riding with people who have been devoted to this sport for over 10 years. They're a part of trials history especially that one of my mates was vice world champion at one stage and another had a world record for sidehop jumping. This is why people admire people like Pcola. Although he's an old fart and many people ride better than him, his style, experience and devotion make him unique.

Got to go to bed now...

Probably gone a bit OT. Sorry for that.

Great topic though

[mat hudson]

no way, completley 50 50 . new school *** who wants crap parts and geo ?

[Mark W]

Surely the fact that I can now, if I wish, speak to over 40 people about trials at 1am is a sign that New school = cool?

[MaXsteri]

I still wag my tail if I see a rider somewhere, just 'cos with my trials background it was super rare to ever see another rider.

I'm still like that and i think a lot of people are, it just depends if you live somewhere with loads of riders, or are just about the only rider in your town and ride by yourself everyday

I have to say I prefer the new school. Years ago tricks and stunts was the only video i had, and it was fantastic. I watched it over and over, but eventually it got to the point where i felt there was almost nothing more i could learn from it. But now there are SO many more videos and different styles of riding to watch that i practically see something new everyday, and I have so many more ideas for lines that i just hadn't thought about before.

Because of the greater range of frames and parts available i have been able to find a bike that suits my riding really well. I am now progressing faster than ever, and more importantly having a shed load more fun now than i was back in the late 90s!

Because of this I can see me sticking with trials for a lot longer than i would have otherwise. New school is cool

[ghosts_cloak]

When I think back to the days of tricks and stunts, chainspotting etc as people have mentioned I do get a "fuzzy feeling"! I wouldnt say I properly rode trials back then as I did a little of everything, the best I could do was backhops and wheelies in trials! Riding was mylife back then, every day for hours, and all weekend. They were perhaps some of the best time of my life as far as biking goes. Crowds of us would ride for miles to some dirt jumps and jump until the sun went down

Now I have no mates that ride, so Im always riding by myself which isnt quite as fun

Looking at the positive side, back then I wanted a bash guard, and my dad made me one! Nowadays you just order from tartybikes etc and its there next day, cheap, shiny and strong!

I would therefore say that trials as a whole is much better these days, but that I had more fun as a kid (on my "oldskool" Cannondale - Martyn Ashton was my idol, as well as Warner and Jez Avery!lol)

Argh, I want to vote for both!

Gareth

[Simpson]

i voted new school but hmmm i dont know

Old school - had no real exp of it but sounds cool - parts not as good but when i see someone on a trials bike i always go say hi and how u doing and sometimes they just totally blank you like daddy brought this for me and just like WTF

its got so bad people riding the same spot and ridiing shitty lil missions and cant ride wont even say hi or give you space on your own spot and there like 13 which drives me crazy

but i like new school bikes long low an silver i shit myself on anybike with a saddle now apart from bmx

[UrbanLegend]

It's a really hard choice to make I think, for people who have been riding for years. I do think it's great that we have companies making new shiny trials specific parts for us, but at the same time it has brought this whole divide with it, the long/silver/backhop crew and short/black/streety crew.

Most people in trials are sound as a pound, but you get the occasional kiddy who is born with a silver Echo in his mouth... I mean it's hard to explain to newbies how trials used to be. I remember saving up for ages to buy an Azonic DS1 when they first came out, and I thought it was the most awesome thing in the world, and so did everyone else! The bottom bracket was practically touching the floor, it was about 900mm long but I didn't care, I didn't even worry about what length it was or what bottom bracket rise it had, I just built it up, rode it every day and loved every minute of it.

I kinda loved the fact that we only had a few riders to look up to... I mean there was Chainspotting and Tricks & Stunts, which I would watch with a bunch of mates before we went out riding... And that was really the only guidance we had. We would go out and learn brand new tricks, not just going out and seeing if we could tap a little bit bigger today. We would ride actual lines and sections, incorporating silly things like stairs and tiny wall sections, not just one move wonders. Trials was so varied back then, I mean you could ride practically any style and still be a trials rider. Now, if you don't like bunnyhops or manuals, you are instantly a UCI boy. If you bunnyhop and manual everything, you aren't a trials rider at all, most people say you are riding "BMX on a Trials bike".

I'm totally expecting New School to win the poll, judging by the amount of riders on here who are reletively "new" to the sport. But it's cool for everyone to share their opinions, share some old stories etc. It's all good fun in the end!

[giantwhore]

Hmmmm......

I think a lot of people on here who will reply to this and talk about old school will be assuming that 'old school' means about 5 years back. In my experience, old school is about 8-10 years ago!

Back in those days you just bought parts and put them on just because they looked good not because they made the bike easier to ride or helped with weight etc etc My first trials bike was an 18in Kona Muni Mula with a Blackspire Ring God, one lx and one halfords own crank, xtr v brakes with built in shifters, Art stem with azonic bars. HAHAHA so amusing thinking back on it, but at the time it was the dogs danglies.

I think the old days have made a real impact on how i ride. Its not a case of, yea i can gp 3 ft so i can now do a 6ft drop gap to a rail because it looks cool, its all about having 100% confidence in what i can do and making things look as smooth and sweet as possible. I could session a 2 ft wall with UrbanLegend for 2 hours and never get bored while all the noobies will be off searching for a CLS gap on theyre 1999 wheelbase bikes. Its just not the same anymore....

I do enjoy chatting on sites like this but there's so many people out there who i swear are more interested in what new hub Echo have brought out than actually getting out and riding. Its a shame really.....

I'll never give up riding but things have changed a lot and i do miss the good old days when the coolest trick on the block was doing 10 backhops!!

OLD SCHOOL ALL THE WAY!

Chris

Oh yea....one other thing

It pisses me right off that onmy old bike with crap geometry and 18in frame it took me like 5 months to learn to backhop. These days, you just get your mum to buy you a bike that will do it for you.....

I swear if all the trials forum wow kids had to ride our first bikes from 8 years ago, 95% of them would give up....

Im done

Chris

Edited May 24, 2006 by giantwhore

[MaXsteri]

I swear if all the trials forum wow kids had to ride our first bikes from 8 years ago, 95% of them would give up....

Im sure they would, hell thats part of the reason i gave up the first time round. Things just wernt as fun on the 17" Kona! But atleast with the old school bikes you only needed to own one bike, which you could do everything thing on thanks to a good range of gears and front suspension! I would like to see someone try a bit of DH on a trials bike nowadays

[F-Stop Junkie]

I think a lot of people would be very suprised if some of us old schoolers built up our old dual frames and X-Torts with Taboo forks. High, heavy bars, DCDs and saddles...

In fact, would anyone be up for an old school class at a club trial? Just as a one-off...

[GuyJames]

If you are all so bloody nostalgic about the issue do as F-stop says and build your old bikes up. And what is stopping you from riding like you use to? If you want to class me I am a 'new school' rider but when I film I will always ensure a line rather than a single trick is performed because I think it looks alot better. Does this mean I am a hybrid: neold school?

Or should we all stop caring and ride our bikes? I wonder.

[Krisboats]

I think the old days have made a real impact on how i ride. Its not a case of, yea i can gp 3 ft so i can now do a 6ft drop gap to a rail because it looks cool, its all about having 100% confidence in what i can do and making things look as smooth and sweet as possible. I could session a 2 ft wall with UrbanLegend for 2 hours and never get bored while all the noobies will be off searching for a CLS gap on theyre 1999 wheelbase bikes. Its just not the same anymore....

I'm still like that, i can be quite happy for hours on end on a small wall or even selection of well placed curbs... I admit some of the bigger stuff does scare me a bit but that a part of the fun isn't it? A lot of the time i do think things are to big and i will refuse to do them... i don't push myself enough. I'm happy though so i couldn't give a s**t if its not the biggest highest drop gap ever.. there's no point doing it if you're gonna land like a sack of s**t.

I do like the look of the new parts though, and i prefer the new style of frames to the old ones, but i do like watching my trialsride.com videos. Legendary

[Ash-Kennard]

new school, because I wasn't around in those days

[ramps]

I can't really comment on this as I am a new schooler BUT from the posts so far old school sounds better. I'm going to try an old school frame set up and I think that should swing for me.

[Greetings]

Rav 1996

Please download this video and watch it.

[The Foamoi Refresher]

i prefer the old days, when here in guernsey people still rode, at least all 5 of us,

now we are down to 2 (me+sam)

its really a difficult question to answer, because there are now so much more parts available, like 24inch, which is god damn amazing

and its amazing to watch whats actually now capable on a bike, some riders syles are just immense

but in the old days (for me) trials ruled my life, and jons, everyday id be riding, at least 3 hours, now i go out once a week, if that, also it was great for me, because your constantly progressing, now i feel like im almost going knowwhere, i ride the same places, do the same moves, just doesnt cut it anymore

rider's would be well more friendly, now they just arent as friendly, by far in my riding experience

also to me trials-forum has gotten worse, it was great back in 2001/2002, every one was much more friendly, you only got good advice, now everyone thinks they know everything, people on here argue well to much, and it puts me off posting as much, everyone is about going bigger and further

is it not just for fun?

i dont know, i have just distanced myself from the trials world, i still love trials, but i dont like most of the stuff that goes with it these days, maybe i just prefer being one of the lone riders on this minute island they call guernsey

luis?

[Jez]

Been having this discussion a fair bit recently... Just wondered what everyone else thought?

Both times have their pro's and con's, but I think I prefer the good old days, when trials was still relatively small... Not every joe schmo had a trials bike, new moves and techniques seemed to be coming out every other week... It wasn't all about how high and how far. The Martins were at their peak, no one gave two shits about how long your frame was, everything just seemed so much simpler...

(Also the weather seemed to be constantly sunny, although my mind may be deceiving me on that )

I'm definitely not having less fun now, and obviously it's good how far trials has come over the years I've been riding... I just can't help but miss the old days!

Just to clarify, Old Skool does not mean a few years ago, I'm talking PROPER old skool, when we rode the smallest shortest frames (xc/dual slalom ), FSA Sidewinders and Shimano hubs... There was no such thing as Trials Forum (oh my god!!!111 can you imagine a world without!!) This probably rules out at least 75% of the forum, but hey...

Man you're bringing back some memories there Yep, I was there, enjoyed it thoroughly. On my shortass cheap, heavy, big DS frame with LX hubs. And STX V's (!) amongst other things. Yep, life was way simpler back then. Find something, jump on/off it in an interesting way, repeat. Who cares if your bike is 10 different colours or happens to be the cheapest piece of crap you could cobble together from your LBS? It's what you do with it that counts!

Ah I'm just a bitter old man.

Or will be some years from now. I have the 'bitter' bit well sorted already.

Seriously though, although I miss the old days, I'm fine with all the 'new' stuff...I've just carried on the same way I always have - built and ridden what I want, when I want, how I want, and sod the rest of you I'm still doing the same stuff as I was years ago, just having more fun these days due to less of a cash shortage and living a LOT nearer to rideable stuff. It's also nice to see all the new stuff that people do and from my perspective it's kinda given my riding a new sort of target I s'pose. Back in the day, you hopped up walls and sidehopped of them. If you didn't make it up, you went to bash. Occasionally someone did something a bit spinny...but that was it. There wasn't a right lot else, especially compared to all the stuff people are coming out with these days.

I do miss the almost daily 'big' rides we used to have though - at least 4 or 5 of us out every other night in Solihull avoiding the rentacops I think that's more of a Brum problem though - there seem to be very few local riders here compared to the reasonably large community we used to have here. I think everywhere else in the UK has probably got more riders than it ever had in the 'olden days'.

On a similar subject...are the days gone where people used to go out to FIND stuff to ride rather than just riding the same stuff over and over? We used to sort of ride the local stuff that we knew, then bugger off around a bit of town we'd never explored and try some new stuff there. Someone recently said to me 'I've ridden everything in Birmingham'. I just laughed. So you've scoured however many hundred square miles this place covers and ridden EVERYTHING in it? Come on, no-one could do that in a lifetime. What the guy meant was 'I've ridden everything I could be arsed to find'.

I've also noticed a bit of snobbery towards rideable stuff these days. If it's not a certain height or width or whatever people won't bother. Back in the day, if it was higher than a kerb we'd play on it for ages before moving on. If it was a foot high it was seen as summat to practice those moves you don't wanna do off big stuff yet, still perfectly rideable and fun. Even steps were considered standard riding fare back then. Nowadays people would rather lift their bikes up a set of steps to get the big Tap or Gap or Sidehop on the other side than trying to do summat a lot more interesting on said steps. So yeah, maybe big TGS stuff annoys me to some extent, but by the same token I have no major problem with it...I just think a lot of riders are obsessed by it. There are other moves that exist in trials...

And I ride two short...not quite black, but near enough bikes. And I ride a lot of street. But I'm damned if I'm gonna be lumped into a category - I'll ride anything I physically can that you put in front of me. I'll quite happily have a go at some natty (I'll suck at it, but I'll enjoy meself), or do the local designated TGS area...but generally I think I prefer just jumping up kinda medium size stuff that I know I can do easily, and doing it WELL rather than *just* making it. because then I can do some more interesting stuff on it...add a spin or something...

I think I prefer short bikes because I come from that old school time where that was all we had to ride, and I got used to it. As for the black/dark coloured thing, I only do that because it attracts less attention = less likely to get nicked. You leave a nice ball burnished frame with anodized parts by the thousand somewhere, someone will notice it. You leave a black piece of crap covered in mud and scratches somewhere, no-one will give it a second look (they'll assume it's a Halford's special).

Edited May 24, 2006 by Jez

[Mark W]

To be honest though, people seem to be demonizing modern riders, when most of the stuff people are saying about riders nowdays isn't actually right? Not to mention you can still ride your "new" bike like you rode your "old" bike, even if they don't look the same? And besides, how come people seem to think trials started in the 90's? People were doing it in the 80's on far worse bikes than the "glory days" as people seem to think of them...

[Mark W]

New Lance Trappe vid: Eengo link

[TrashZen]

Hmmmm......

I do enjoy chatting on sites like this but there's so many people out there who i swear are more interested in what new hub Echo have brought out than actually getting out and riding. Its a shame really.....

I'll never give up riding but things have changed a lot and i do miss the good old days when the coolest trick on the block was doing 10 backhops!!

OLD SCHOOL ALL THE WAY!

Chris

Oh yea....one other thing

It pisses me right off that onmy old bike with crap geometry and 18in frame it took me like 5 months to learn to backhop. These days, you just get your mum to buy you a bike that will do it for you.....

I swear if all the trials forum wow kids had to ride our first bikes from 8 years ago, 95% of them would give up....

Im done

Chris

Yep, started on a 16" killerV, taking out the big chainring, 1997, and it took me two years to realise that other people were also trying to climb on walls with normal mountain bikes or do silly things. Going to comps was a revelation, but then, riders in any given town were so scarce... I love the old school in the sense that it takes me way back in time , but since I have tried better bikes and adopted a pure trials geometry, I really enjoy the new style and many different techniques it brings with it. True that I know more about components nowadays with the many comments and comparisons I read on the forum. Very often, I would walk into a shop ask for a replacement freewheel, and wouldn't even remember if I had a 7 or 9 speed cassette (because I rode all the time the same gear), and the shop assistant would laugh like I never rode a bike :$ before.

But new school is much better... more people, you feel less like a lunatic on a bike .

I think overall, its' for the better, even if you could consider all these new geometries like cheating...

[Davetrials]

New Lance Trappe vid: Eengo link

Its so nice to say that i can put up a fight if not beat on of my past heros at riding trials, going of that video.

hes a street beast though.