Magura Brake Fluid

[ScotchDave]

theres something better than water and as thin as it AND its oil BASED!!!!!

if anyone gets to feel my brake you can have a go and see what the lever feels like. have ad the same stuff in for like 4months and it feels like my disc brake lever.

Water sucks!!!! we went out in the snow and one of the lads had water in his brake and it just froze over, no matter what people say iv used water and it JUST doesnt have that feel of "oil" yes it returns fast, but the hold/lock is affected, as water contains "air" therefore the water compresses.

Waynio........................

Be safe and keep it simple. iv felt some brakes with magura fluid in and thought they have had some thing different in. cos it felt just as good as other things. light action and nice return.

So what is this wonder liquid?

[Mark W]

I thought he was basically just saying Magura blood was the uber-fluid? Or did I miss something:$

[Tom Booth]

So what is this wonder liquid?

The all new

Buy all brake fluid, 100% water.

(RRP : £39.99)

[Mark W]

"A unique blend of hydrogen and oxygen, created by our finest engineers."

[Tomm]

I have to say I agree with Wayne. From a practical point of view, whenever I've used water in my brakes, it's gone a bit funny after a few weeks, lever not returning. But also it does feel spongier when the pads hit the rim. Also, from a science point of view:

Water's Compressibility

Brake fluid has such a low compressibility factor that auto makers use it in brake hydraulic systems. When you hit the brake pedal the brake fluid compresses so slightly you'd think there was no volumetric change at all! If water got in your brake lines (which is VERY dangerous!) you would notice your pedal would feel sluggish and the brakes wouldn't work very well, and may not work at all! This is because water compresses much more relative to brake fluid.

So there you have it. Proof that maggie fluid is best

[Mark W]

My left index finger's opinion > The interweb's opinion.

In that article, are they talking about a mix of Dot fluid and water being worse than jsut Dot fluid on it's own though? Or is that using just water and then using just Dot fluid or mineral oil and seeing the change there? Either way, in a system which uses as little fluid as a Magura, wouldn't the change in feel be pretty minimal?

[Tomm]

It probably depends on all sorts, especially temperature. I have it in my head that water is more compressible than other liquids, but I'm not quite sure where I got that from. That quote I posted seems to back me up. I don't think it matters about the small volume of liquid that is used in Maguras, because you could think of the compression as a percentage of the total volume, which would be constant in any system (At a given temperature blah blah). If you used twice as much liquid, you would compress it twice as much, if you get me?

Having said all that, there's no substitute for practical experience. The "feel" of a brake is more relevant in trials than in a car's brake, for example, and there are probably many things I didn't consider in the minute I took writing that post ( ). I guess you should consider stuff like viscosity. What water lacks in compressibility, it makes up for in being very very runny.

I find magura fluid to be the best, but that's not to say that's "the answer"

[Mark W]

I guess I've jsut said all this in my PM too, but with a Magura, you're using a proportionally smaller system, so say the water compressed by 10%, with 1ltr of fluid in a car brake (random number) you'd have 10% more pedal movement than with a regular fluid. If you had, say, 10cm of pedal movement with regular fluid, you'd have 10% more with water, which would be a bit over 11cm or something like that (well, it wouldn't work out like that, but it holds enough for what I'm trying to say ), but with a Magura which had like 100ml of water in, you've got a way smaller difference of lever movement when you compare the fluids, so it wouldn't really factor in as much? Not to mention the temperature of the fluids during the tests would have a bearing on it all too...

[JT!]

I guess I've jsut said all this in my PM too, but with a Magura, you're using a proportionally smaller system, so say the water compressed by 10%, with 1ltr of fluid in a car brake (random number) you'd have 10% more pedal movement than with a regular fluid. If you had, say, 10cm of pedal movement with regular fluid, you'd have 10% more with water, which would be a bit over 11cm or something like that (well, it wouldn't work out like that, but it holds enough for what I'm trying to say ), but with a Magura which had like 100ml of water in, you've got a way smaller difference of lever movement when you compare the fluids, so it wouldn't really factor in as much? Not to mention the temperature of the fluids during the tests would have a bearing on it all too...

= It woudn't make a shit bit of difference.

[Mark W]

That's largely what I was getting at. Man, I'm f**king tired.

[PaRtZ]

water is gurd. Can you drink magura fluid without dying? no

Yeah I still go for water everytime. It feels much better and is el cheapo

[Sam Nugent]

Yeah, but how long does it take for water to ruin the seals? Is there any way to prevent it?

[onzatprodude]

just use water cheap and easy to bleed your brake with it and its now summer/nearly summer i think so using just water minus the antifreeze/ deicer will be fine you shouldnt have any worry about your brake freezing well atleast mine hasnt

[Mark W]

Yeah, but how long does it take for water to ruin the seals? Is there any way to prevent it?

I've had water since time began and I've had no trouble with my seals

[mods]

water, coke, cooking oil, badger spit..........

use the 'search' and youll soon see

coke?!? i don't kno anyone who has used that.. but it is obvioulsly gassy.. so spongyness and it is really corrosive.. and would perish your cables ect.

Magura make brakes they are ' the brake people' so i think they may have come up with the best fluid

but maybe them and anyothers that use magura brake fluid are wrong

Edited May 20, 2006 by mods

[Mark W]

There are many reasons they would want you to use Magura blood, generally due to price and the locations in which they sell their brakes.

However, as has been stated probably near enough 100 times in these sorta posts, you can use wate rin them, and it's fine...

EDIT: Just wondering here, how are your Magura blacks holding up?

[Waynio]

what is the wonder fluid????

Try something you put in your car!!!

JT why the you fool?(Mr T style FOOL) did you go to skool???? H2O is HYDROGEN & OXYGEN!!!!! hahahhahaha and THAT is what water is or is it JUST a H????? or did i miss something????

School boy errors!!!! hence the SH!T advice people give.

Waynio........................

[dave85]

Water that has been boiled or has been standing about for a while has no gaseous substances in it. The compressibility of any fluid is bugger all compared to how far the brake flexes, and how much the fluid expands when its heated.

Wayne, if you think that because water contains air it will be compressible, consider that any oil based fluid also contains hydrogen as a minimum. You might be an authority on certain things, stop trying to do everyone down on any point you dont agree with.

[Christophe']

A Riding Buddy I know used a can of Special Brew once.

I'd only recomemd this in an emergency though.

Dave

[Mark W]

Try breathing water, Wayne? The oxygen is covalently bonded to the hydrogen, so it's not like you have hydrogen at one end of your hoses and oxygen at the other.

Equally, at 20°C, the density of water is 0.99820g/cm^3, compared to 1.08 for Dot fluid. A massive 0.07g/cm^3 max difference. That means there's less than 7% difference, and that was comparing it to a super high quality Dot fluid (can't remember the exact difference). When compared to a regular mineral oil (according to google), you're comparing the 0.99820g/cm^3 of water to 0.914g/cm^3. If you think that's how small the difference in density of the two materials is, just try and think of how close the difference is going to be between the two for compressibility (or whatever the tech term is)? There's f**k all difference, which is - funnily enough - why so many hundreds of people on here, OTN, people I've met on rides and so on all use water with no trouble.

[Si-man]

Just let the coke go flat

Wont do that much, never heard anybody using it though

Just use the bloody stuff that comes in it

[dave85]

Coke's acid, it'll make pretty patterns in the seals and generally take them from behind.

[mods]

Try breathing water, Wayne? The oxygen is covalently bonded to the hydrogen, so it's not like you have hydrogen at one end of your hoses and oxygen at the other.

Equally, at 20°C, the density of water is 0.99820g/cm^3, compared to 1.08 for Dot fluid. A massive 0.07g/cm^3 max difference. That means there's less than 7% difference, and that was comparing it to a super high quality Dot fluid (can't remember the exact difference). When compared to a regular mineral oil (according to google), you're comparing the 0.99820g/cm^3 of water to 0.914g/cm^3. If you think that's how small the difference in density of the two materials is, just try and think of how close the difference is going to be between the two for compressibility (or whatever the tech term is)? There's f**k all difference, which is - funnily enough - why so many hundreds of people on here, OTN, people I've met on rides and so on all use water with no trouble.

i dunno maybe this thread is annoying u mark, u have obviously researched this... no really cares that much

[Mark W]

Just making a point I feel like shit and couldn't really be arsed going out, so I thought I may as well use my time productively...

[nmt_oli]

A friend of mine uses Finish Line shock oil. Its like water and doesnt freeze.

That would be me! i have actually done far too much research into this matter!

Std magura fluid (blood/royal blood) is a mineral oil and is quite thick, about 5wt.

When magura bike products were first introduced into the USA, the USA tech/warranty department couldnt get hold of magura fluid, and they used finish line 5wt shock oil instead, providing the same feel, but improved realiability due to finish line actually being slightly better for seals and more "slipery" for want of a better word.

i have managed to find some 2.5wt finish line shock oil, which work wonderfully as it is almost as thin as water, but will not harm the brake in any way at all.

LHM works well, but is a bit thicker then magura blood.

I personally dont like the sound of using baby oil /vegatable oil ect.

Water is ok to use for short periods of time IMO, especially if its deionised or whatever, so theres nothing in solution (apart from gas).

If you use tap water for long periods of time you risk: Freezing brakes, seal degradation, increased corrosion of internal parts, possibility of the inside of your brake looking like the inside of your kettle!