British Round 2 Devon

[totaltrials]

The gear rule has absolutely nothing to do with weight, if weight was the case there would be regulations on each riders bike about the weight of it like having a minimum weight, the gear rule is there to keep the 26" bikes more towards a regular mountain bike rather than a mod bike, but then it's still demined by the lack of seats these days.

I just wanted to ride the dam trial and have a good time, I didnt want to mess about with my bike putting gears on it and that's why the tupmans where realy cool about it, they just said to ride the trial don't worry about it and everything will get sorted out and just have fun.

Phil.

[dave33]

The gear rule has absolutely nothing to do with weight, if weight was the case there would be regulations on each riders bike about the weight of it like having a minimum weight, the gear rule is there to keep the 26" bikes more towards a regular mountain bike rather than a mod bike, but then it's still demined by the lack of seats these days.

I just wanted to ride the dam trial and have a good time, I didnt want to mess about with my bike putting gears on it and that's why the tupmans where realy cool about it, they just said to ride the trial don't worry about it and everything will get sorted out and just have fun.

Phil.

thats pretty much the the same mind as me, as i had single speed in the last round i just wanted to ride and if i won they could remove me from the results i wouldnt mind but i put gears on this time just incase they wouldnt let me ride, and aftertraveling 200 miles that would have been crap so i put gears on and it didnt make any difference

[robster]

The gear rule has absolutely nothing to do with weight, if weight was the case there would be regulations on each riders bike about the weight of it like having a minimum weight, the gear rule is there to keep the 26" bikes more towards a regular mountain bike rather than a mod bike, but then it's still demined by the lack of seats these days.

I just wanted to ride the dam trial and have a good time, I didnt want to mess about with my bike putting gears on it and that's why the tupmans where realy cool about it, they just said to ride the trial don't worry about it and everything will get sorted out and just have fun.

Phil.

couldn't bothered to read all that cos it's really boaring me now but you said it all in your last 3 words Phil and well done for that.

JUST HAVE FUN (for all our sakes).

Thats what I try to tell my 8 year old lad.

[Heatsink]

The 6 working gears rule is outdated in my opinion and will no doubt be dropped in time. Can't see any justification for it - just an historical legacy that will be scrubbed out, albeit with a fair time lag, in the near future.

You should be allowed to have as many gears as you like.

I agree with Phil's arguments in this post too. I'd say that there's been some great feedback in this thread, and closing your eyes to it or angrily dismissing it isn't the way forward.

There's a question up in the air about what happens to the money from entrance fees. Where does it go? Do events/organisations make the financial breakdown transparent? If the event is reliant on so many people giving up their time for free, then surely there is an onus on the organisers to show that any money made has been used appropriately and not siphoned off into someone's pocket off the backs of the volunteers. I'm not making accusations, just widening the discussion. It's great that events like these can be run due to commitment from volunteers, and it places responsibility on the organisers to conduct everything appropriately, which I'm sure they've done

Steve

P.S. I've used up my controversal post limit now!

[Waynio]

dont forget the money made (or if there is any money made) goes to the individual CLUB not to someone!!! it is an organisation.

yes the gears rule is dated, like i said when andrei had had the problem with his at addingham, if you want anything done about it "Write" a letter to Japan and then something maybe done, i was told to do it 2 years ago, as i mentioned it as being a pointless rule. the problem is "UK" is one of too many countries, if ALL countries were the same then YES the gear rule would be changed (even if more than not were for taking the gears rule out of the book it would probably happen) you cant go speeding down the motorway and get away with not having a fine and 3 points on your license and if most people are "obeying" the rules, specially if you look @ the master class where is the problem? until the rule is taken out of the book people should obey the rule, if you dont want to, dont, but then when your caught cold and get disqualified or banned DONT moan or winge about it, which is what seems to be happening here.

everything drops and just all have fun. its just a possesive wave from the trial at addingham. i find it amusing how Andrei hasnt said a word about it yet everyone else has???? its a bit like "Back Stabbing" way too much of it happens but hey thats another arguement and story. if only the world was simple and friendly eh?

GO OUT RIDE YOUR BIKE HAVE FUN AND DONT COMPLAIN!!!!(if you can help it )

Waynio....................

[Al_Fel]

Snookered.

[Tony Harrison]

FFS, entry isn't compulsory... nobody made the entrants part with their cash...

[Waynio]

very correct alan

the letter is to be written to the "Governing body of the BIU" or something or other

sunday for me was great as i got a chance to see/watch everyone else aswell take lil robbie around with me. it was good fun and a times a bit depressing as i was dissapointed i could not ride, but such is life. the thing that you always have to remember is keep on having fun and enjoy yourself. (but trying to stick to rules if that can be done. it doesnt take much to understand the basic ruling)

Waynio........................

[F-Stop Junkie]

The 6 working gears rule is outdated in my opinion and will no doubt be dropped in time. Can't see any justification for it - just an historical legacy that will be scrubbed out, albeit with a fair time lag, in the near future.

Says the man who sells singlespeed tensioners...

I think that the rule should be enforced at least in Masters because riders in the top classes should compete in the same way they would at the Worlds. I realise a lot of riders zip-tie up their mechs once the bike passes scrutineering, but lets work to the spirit of the rules here....

For Novice, I'm sure it makes no difference, and no one would protest if a singlespeed rider did well. 9 times out of 10, it would be the same for Expert too. But I am entirely in favour of keeping the rule because the way I ride, I would be disadvantaged if everyone else was running singlespeed and I had the penalty of running gears. I realise I'm in the minority these days of actually using their gears though. This is not a petty rule, it's been the way for many, many years, and as Phil said, it's what defines the class. If the rules were relaxed so it was a completely open technical competition, we could see riders with 20" front wheels, 24" rear, singlespeed and bashplate with no seat. People would run prototypes, each more specialised than the last. Bikes could get more expensive, and increasingly less relevant to normal riding.

Street riders will ride whatever they like, because there are no restrictions when you're just messing around with your mates. It's down to whatever bike is nice to ride. With competition you need a level playing field.

[Heatsink]

dont forget the money made (or if there is any money made) goes to the individual CLUB not to someone!!! it is an organisation.

---

Waynio....................

What do the club use the money for? If there is a healthy cash mountain in the club accounts could it be dipped into to reduce entry fees to less than £20 for the next event?

Just playing devils advocate on this one.

Complaining wise, I'd say that generally we Brits are quite reserved at coming forward. Any company/organisation should treat all complaints with respect and harness any feedback they get to improve things.

If only NTL had better customer service - through my dissappointment with them, and dissappointment with their complaints proceedures, they have lost a fair few customers I'd say, since I always like sharing my stories with others about them!

Nice point about the singlespeed tensioners Chris! I plead not guilty about having an invested interest in the matter though! I seriously have always thought the 6 working gear rule is out of touch with most riders. If I was thinking about entering comps it would be annoying having to get a set-up that met the criteria, only to then only use the one gear. Buying a shifter, getting the cable sorted etc could be £20 spent, not to mention the time wasted. Also it's possible to run a singlespeed type arm and use a floating roller/sprocket so that various chainlines can be used.

I realise a lot of riders zip-tie up their mechs once the bike passes scrutineering, but lets work to the spirit of the rules here....

It sounds like the rule is a farce already then, with it being regularily infringed! Silly that Andrei should be disqualified at the Brits for running singlespeed whilst it's allowed to zip tie up your mech achieving the same sort of single speed set-up. I would think that not having local power to keep rules relevant and fully watertight is the sort of thing that can hold back emerging sports. Having clear, robust and respected rules is surely the key foundation for events like these. When a rule is becoming a hotbed of controversy then something should be done about it I reckon!

Steve

[F-Stop Junkie]

I seriously have always thought the 6 working gear rule is out of touch with most riders.

So if 24" bikes became the most popular style of bike, would you then say that 24" wheels should be allowed in the stock class because they're most relevant to most riders?

[p_rew@theciderbar.na]

Thanks Ali C for saying something nice about the trophies!

But sorry if I ballsed up probably the least important thing about the trial, but when I went to pick them I thought they were something different, tasteful and perhaps could be used as paper weight etc. although they came back smaller than I had expected.

Yes, the sections worked out a little easy in the dry, but thats because it was raining during the week and rain was likely for Sunday - I didnt want to make the trial unridable in such conditions. If you have ridden in the rain there before you will know Kelly Farm is horrific in the wet. It's difficult trying to balance the wide range of ability on each route and trying to make the trial enjoyable for all, no matter what the weather.

Another thing, is that when you're setting out a course you don't always see all of the lines in a section, because some times you only see the way you want something to be ridden, rather than what can be done and on sunday the sneaky buggers always found ways of beating the sections!! eg number 6 on the red route when everyone went around the side of the rock at the top

Glad most of you enjoyed it

(Really think we should NEVER discuss the gears thing again - it goes nowhere. The crux of the matter is that the rules will have to be amended after this season)

[Heatsink]

I'd say that the perceived effect of difference in wheel size is greater than this singlespeed issue.

I'd much prefer an orgnisation to listen to the people it serves rather than being solely dictorial in the development of a sport. In terms of clarity and simplicity, perceived level playing surface for all, then there's a good arguement for them to stick to the current classifications of Mod and stock. Nothing wrong with that.

What I'd argue as ideal is an organisation responding publically to issues with existing rules, and suggestions for new ones. If they can demonstrate a justifiable reason for keeping or changing rules, then people will respect the whole framework comps are held in. It appears that at the moment there is some work to do here. Is it really the case that Japan have total control over rules being implimented in the UK, and there is no scope for amendments to be readily made. Sounds crazy!

I stick behind my point that the power of the governing bodies is pivotal in the development of a sport. Trials could grow and grow, but if the people setting comp rules are distanced from the events, and there is no 2 way communication, then the sport can be held back.

Nothing like a good discussion

Steve

So if 24" bikes became the most popular style of bike, would you then say that 24" wheels should be allowed in the stock class because they're most relevant to most riders?

[Waynio]

i totally agree with the weather side of it mr rew its always good fun and games trying to walk to the sections never mind ride them when its wet @ kelly farm

the money goes towards paying for the trophies, the toilets errrrrrrrrrr cant think of anything else to hand so it goes back into the club to help the club with new flags and paper etc etc to send out entry forms and such forth. (im not pro at it but some of the other organisers will understand what it goes into even more so )

Says the man who sells singlespeed tensioners...

that got me laughing chris, course steve wants the tensioners to be sold thats why he wants the gear ruling scrapped :P hehe. thats why i think steve put this:

Just playing devils advocate on this one.

the devil you are steve hehe

and then the complaint about NTL i love that. im still laughing now!!! its turned out to be a good "fun" topic that people are looking on the opposite side of the fence. steve you have made me chuckle today, puts my injury in the back of my mind and having a laugh at the forefront.

Waynio.............................

Edited April 18, 2006 by Waynio

[Jenn24]

the thing that you always have to remember is keep on having fun and enjoy yourself. (but trying to stick to rules if that can be done. it doesnt take much to understand the basic ruling)

Wise words wayniooo!

hehehehe

xx

[the organiser]

just want to say well done to the Tupmans and the Rews good trial some of the section rode a little easy but its hard to get the perfect trial got to say well done to my son on cleaning the second lap,

but i think that the too rounds so far the sections have been on the easy side not like nationals of old and some riders out there are in training for the worlds and this level is not good to make top riders from the uk

as for the gear rule i see the uci now are to allow single speed in world cup and world champs so i think it is time that british champs take on this to as we don't follow all the world rules in the uk and don't have to from what i remember ( ie the shoe rule is not in the uk )

as for Mr Burton as i recall he had 6 gears on his bike and a mech and a shifter it was his cable that was not working so there was no gain in weight and i think was unsportsman like to protest as my son went and gave the guy a pat on the back and said well done and he had been beaten to.

i would like to see some money going into adverts to bring public to the events like one or two posters on lamp posts if we don't get public soon there will be no sport no new people coming in why do we look like we lock the gates when the trial starts.

bike trial uk need to sort this and help the club running the nationals to promote

ps entrys for ymsa close 1 week before the event on may 1st hope you can make it mr tupman

and you can ride single speed

David Butler

[Waynio]

dave i agree BUT i want to say one thing that you may not like.

i took to devon an 8 year old lad. by the name of robbie peacock and all day ALL i could hear was "screaming" and some FOUL language.

i wish there was a rule about swearing more than anything, its dirty,rude and upmost disgusting when there are young lads there.

UCI have changed that is not BIU two different governing bodies. we obide by the rules given to us.

Why should people "general public" turn up to an event where swearing and abusive language comes FREE of charge???? when they may not wish their son or daughter to have this put into their heads.

i am NOT willing to have a go, but if the foul mouthing could stop and the shouting and moaning and sulking @ events. i think THAT is when you can get the general public to come and watch. JUST as an example "Fort William 2005" that was how a venue and trial should be run and appreciated alot more, not by foul/abusive language and behaviour i must say.

cheap DIGs go nowhere and iv found and come to learn that (this is anomynous!!!) but the people it concerns will know who they are:

people get kicks out of talking BEHIND peoples backs. they cant physically say it to their face BUT iv brought this up ONLY due to the attention of daves post. it has nothing in relation to do with anything else as i had seen this thread picking up in it NOT being an arguement.

go ahead make my day slate the HELL out of me,cos at the end of the day I have made this post in the fact that I will take responsibility. but if anyone can stand in front of me and say im totally wrong then they can do it. il be at the next british round riding or not.

"gangs" shouldnt be in trials, gangs are for places like new york and TRIALS does not need stupid petty BOLLOX like this. i could post alot about what i heard saw and how i feel about sunday but the above is the only a small BIT that needs to come out on here, i can deal with people face to face to sort problems out. but i really cant see WHY we would want to bring "joe public" to an event that groups or people go round swearing their heads off, its NOT just 1 or 2 people i would take a guess at it being more like 8-10!!! which means it could be 1 person per section. (no good at all!)i wouldnt take my son or daughter to watch an event where i could invite my son/daughter into the world of great words that make you ARD or distinguish you from someone else. it makes you look more of a prat than a role model. this is what the likes of Akrigg, Ashton, Hawzee, Ryan Leech, Vincent Hermance, Kenny Belaey, Thomas Ohler, TRA and such forth have over the majority of ANY "trials" rider over here.

AMEN!

Waynio............................

Edited April 19, 2006 by Waynio

[Matt_Tupman]

A good read this is

Thought i'd step in to answer a few questions, the entry fee has gone up to £20 so that all the clubs can give more money than they already do to Biketrial Uk to pay off the debt that was created due to the World round last year. The plan is to keep this new entry fee once the debt is payed so we can start saving up for our next world round.

Hope that clears up the money side of things

As for the Gears, yes i feel we need to renew the rule but i was surprised to see so many people with single speed on Sunday, the reul currently still stands and as far as i'm aware we shall be inforcing it.

Matt

[rugbyman]

As for the Gears, yes i feel we need to renew the rule but i was surprised to see so many people with single speed on Sunday, the reul currently still stands and as far as i'm aware we shall be inforcing it.

Matt

does that mean people running single speeds will be disqualified matt?

Yep, so people will moan if they are too easy and will moan if they are too hard because the level your making the sections should be the level they are intended to be not too hard or too easy, and dangerous sections has always been the case that's why sections have been changed half way through in the past and why you don't put a 7ft drop to a pointy rock in a blue route class as that would be classed as rather dangerous just as you wouldn't put a 20ft drop to a pointy rock in master.

And it's funny because of the other bit I put below that.

And you haven't quite grasped why people would moan about the £20, because last year it was £12 and this year an increase of £8 along with extra rounds, where is the extra money going, nothing is different.

I can see you don't like "moaning" not exactly moaning but more of a discussion, if you don't want to discuss in a FORUM don't say anything instead of crying and telling me to shut up.

Phil.

i never laid out the sections phil

i'm not gonna continue this convo on here, we'll continue it at backcowm

[IOLO]

chill people !

sections:

they were brilliant, i thought they were well set out, not confusing

and made brilliant use of the rocks there.

they were a little easy,and i think its better when 1st place is on roughly 20 dabs

but this has gotta be sooo hard to work out whilst looking at 10 sets of rocks.!

trophys:

it didnt even occur to me that they wernt good.

i thought they were fine, nice neat and HEAVY hehe.

gears:

i was amazed at how many people ran single speed.

even though the entry form said they were going to check.

but i was even more amazed at how unofficial the gear checking was !!!

there was not list to go through !

they just picked people out of the crowd! me and others with gears went forward,

single speed people either were written down or just hid at the back.

the hours i put in making my mech and shifter work

were i feel wasted,

seen as i could have just hidden my bike next to the car for the 'CHECKING' period.

the rule needs to be either ignored ! which i think round 1 established it cannot be (shame) .

or used, and if its going to be used and checked, then i needs to be checked properly.

Entry Fee:

£20 for a day of...

-riding

-trophys

-fun

-sun

-rocks

sounds fine 2 me !

im certainly not made of money

but i think its a fair price,

if that was a downhill comp it would have been more like £80 i think.

XC comps are also higher!

all together,, good day out !!

well done and thanks to ALL organisers and helpers !

iolo.

[Waynio]

the gear rule is "trusted" that people will take not a bit like other rules such as "bar end" covers, if you dont have them and you stab yourself???? who's behind it????

at the end of the day we should never worry and always be happy. but you cant please everyone and iv found that out SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many times. its like why do i bother? the best thing is, for the people that dont care and have fun and enjoy themselves keep doing it. the others can quibble and squabble between themselves.

number one comes first!!!! and to yourself you are always priority and number one yourself.

take it easy adults and kids and always enjoy yourself

Waynio..........................

[Rich Pearson]

Why should people "general public" turn up to an event where swearing and abusive language comes FREE of charge?

Damn right Wayne. Like I said, this was my first time at the Brits and I got to say the thing that put me off more than anything was people shouting and screaming when the made mistakes, and people taking everything too seriously.

Which ties in to my response with Daves comment about wanting trials to become bigger; trials will never be a big and recognised sport until everyone becomes much more united. Everyone seems to want to climb to the top of the ladder and the be the first Biketrials Champion the public sees when the sport does go public, except that because of this almost Machievellian attitude where people take it far too seriously, Trials will NEVER become a publicly recognised sport. Think about it, we must look like the biggest bunch of squabbling children (I would include myself in that discription) to half the general public, and a group of vandals to the other half.

People like Andrei Burton are trying their hardest to bring trials to the massess, along with others like Chris Akrigg and Martyn Ashton, but when these people get screwed over by a technicality you've got to wonder, "why?" I can't and shouldn't reveal too much about what Andrei's doing this year as he'll get unindated with idiots asking when will this happen and when will that happen, but he - and many others - are working so f**king hard for the sport of trials and its getting thrown back in his face by some of his fellow competitors; that is why the sport will never get public recognition, because you can forget about people like the government or the general public cutting us down - who give literally billions every year to other sports like football and the olympics - when there are people within this very sport who are smothering it before its had a chance to breathe.

I'd love to see it happen Dave, I really would, and your sons and people like Wayne, and Chris Akrigg and Andrei are the people that are gonna make it happen. But we'll just have to wait and see.

Rich

[Stan Shaw]

Any idea when the results are being posted on the net?

[totaltrials]

Damn right Wayne. Like I said, this was my first time at the Brits and I got to say the thing that put me off more than anything was people shouting and screaming when the made mistakes, and people taking everything too seriously.

Rich

This is a National competition, it's no mess about, a lot of people want to take this seriously and get some success out of their riding, what's wrong with these people wanting to take it seriously, you see in every sport people shouting and being angry at mistakes, obviously on TV you don't see swearing and i'm sure that would be the same if trials is filmed.

If this was just a normal club competition who cares what the sections where like, maybe a few rules would slip, everyone would just join in and have fun, but it's not all about fun at the nationals, obviously it is to half half the people, but dam serious to the others, if I was totally bothered I would have made sure I had a full set of gears but I'd still like to see the countries biggest trials event being run nicely with big crowds, good sections, great atmosphere and all the rest, I just can't understand why other countries end up having bigger crowds and atmosphere.

There was a great interview with kenny belaey on OTN and it was the best thing I've read for so long, he knows what's happening and what's right and wrong and made a lot of sense and it really brought home how shoddy the scene looks.

OTN kenny interview

Phil.

[Stan Shaw]

OTN kenny interview

Makes so much sense! Very worthwhile reading.