F-Stop Junkie Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 If someone can tell me how not having 6 gears helps to win a trial (in the rules or not) then please enlighten me??Potentially a singlespeed is lighter, less prone to damage if a move goes wrong, provides more clearance on the drive side, and also has stronger wheels than a geared bike. On the one hand, your bike is lighter and easier to ride, and on the other the gears won't jump. Plus in the event of a crash or mistake, there is more to damage that would stop your progress and potentially mean you have to five a section.It's a slight advantage, but an advantage none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIX Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 So why enforce it, if as you say, it limits the rider??Limiting the rider will limit the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 So why enforce it, if as you say, it limits the rider??Limiting the rider will limit the sport.Because the rules are the same for everyone. Why limit the rider on wheel size? Why limit the rider on time? Why limit the rider to pedal power?I never said it limits the rider anyway. I said it offers a slight advantage in specific circumstances. 99% of the time, it won't make a tiny bit of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 martyn ashton and martin hawyes used to change gear in trials!!!! i couldnt believe it when they told me.if you think of it there can be sections where you need easier/harder gears etc to help you through the section, most of us choose only to use "1" gear which is our favoured gear, but then i thought well yes this is where the rule comes to an "advantage" and a dis advantage as chris has said about it being lighter etc etc.Probably 30%-50% of 26" riders were running proper singlespeeds with one cog and a tensionerthat just to let most of you know was 30-50% of the EXPERT class not the MASTER class. i saw most people on the circuit on sunday and they had gears and shifters etc, as some of them were in the weirdest of places hehe. but at the top class, something like this can/could make a difference and has. im sure if id have won with a singlespeed bike 2nd 3rd of 4th place would have liked to have got one over me if my bike wasnt "upto" requirements. im sure most will say they wouldnt BUT im sure they would. (PS im probably not likely to win one but that was a "scenario" )Waynio..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIX Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Check thisIf the shifter isnt on the handle bar then you cant legally shift. Your not allowed to touch your bike with your hand anywhere else other than the handle bar. So whats the point in having it in the first place. And if your shifter isnt on your handlebar and you can put it anywhere, then surely as long as you have 6 sprockets on the rear and a derailler or a tensioner that can be positioned over each sprocket, then that is 6 working gears. Even if you dont have a shifter, and you have to get down there with an allen key and some pliers to change gear. If your shifter is on the seat tube, then you cant change gear in a section so why is that allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantham Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 rule are rules thoughhaha lmao was it not you that was running singlespeed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 as wayne says its clear to see that havin 6 working gears is an advantage over a single speed setup. its comes down to the riders not using it as an advantage.so if a rider choses to run single speed their choice to make and lose the advantage of the gearspersonaly i run single speed, and i if i happend to finish in 1st place i would be more than happy to be removed from that position i think it would be far better if the rider had the option to run single speed or 6 gears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 If singlespeed bikes were allowed, then anyone wishing to run gears would be penalised, where as if you make gears mandatory, everyone is at the same disadvantage. Allow singlespeeds, and some riders will have to comprimise the way they ride in order to compete on a singlespeed which gives known advantages.Best to leave it as is. Allow the novice class to use singlespeeds to encourage more non-comp riders to give it a try, but if you move up, especially to Master, then you have to run your bike as you would at an International event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walleee Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 so if a rider choses to run single speed their choice to make and lose the advantage of the gearspersonaly i run single speed, and i if i happend to finish in 1st place i would be more than happy to be removed from that position Yep, that's the risk you take if you don't follow the rules. Another risk is that you might not even be allowed to ride depending on how strict they are about rule enforcement.I dont see what all the bitching is about really, it's not a new rule by anymeans, as long as I can remember having working gears has been a rule for stock bikes.Why all this fuss now? Surley the person who is in question, knew the rules before they started riding, If they didn't adhere to them they can't expect to win without questions being asked.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 why not let the rider decide what they run then any ride can either run single speed if they wish or gears if they wish.just like brakes some people might want to run v brakes, some might want maguras.you could say v brakes are a disadvantage to the rider but they have the choice so there is no disadvantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walleee Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 why not let the rider decide what they run then any ride can either run single speed if they wish or gears if they wish.just like brakes some people might want to run v brakes, some might want maguras.you could say v brakes are a disadvantage to the rider but they have the choice so there is no disadvantageBecause it's a rule. Like someone else said, perhaps someone wants to throw an engine on their bike rather than use pedals and cranks, that's hardly going to be fair is it?The more variables you start to play with the further you get from being able to determine who is the better rider..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 personaly i run single speed, and i if i happend to finish in 1st place i would be more than happy to be removed from that position Yeah, and you could also go away with the satisfaction of knowing that you were the better rider on the day, regardless of what the 'results' tables say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walleee Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Yeah, and you could also go away with the satisfaction of knowing that you were the better rider on the day, regardless of what the 'results' tables say...Or else ride with gears, which makes no differance to most people, and be the undisputed champion......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 ok i ride trials because its fun and i dont normaly ride with gears so that woulbe mean me putting gears on for 5 rounds every year, which i wouldnt really enjoy doing as id rather be using the limited time i have to ride my bikei ride the comps because i like the sections, not to try and win the comp, if it just so happens that i do better than people with gears who are only riding to win then they should get betterYeah, and you could also go away with the satisfaction of knowing that you were the better rider on the day, regardless of what the 'results' tables say...id go with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIX Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 The more variables you start to play with the further you get from being able to determine who is the better rider.....I think your missing the core point here. The better rider in this instance wont be concidered the better rider by the results despite winning on the day. Im with dave 33, I would ride with single speed, if I did well and some one complained and got a better result because of it. Then well done that person, you must be very proud.Thing is ben is an awsome rider and doesnt need this sort of thing I dont think. Its not F1 for f**k sake. Single speed is lighter is it?? Yeah my cables and small plastic shifter hold be back all the time, I reckon without them I could do everything much better. Common Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 expensive gear system could be lighter than a cheap single speed system though.so next comp im not allowed to use my chris king hubs cus they are lighter and i have an advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 why not let the rider decide what they run then any ride can either run single speed if they wish or gears if they wish.Because a rider using one gear out of six has equal equipment to a rider using 4 gears out of six, therefore no advantage or disadvantage to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walleee Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I think your missing the core point here. The better rider in this instance wont be concidered the better rider by the results despite winning on the day. Im with dave 33, I would ride with single speed, if I did well and some one complained and got a better result because of it. Then well done that person, you must be very proud.Thing is ben is an awsome rider and doesnt need this sort of thing I dont think. Its not F1 for f**k sake. Single speed is lighter is it?? Yeah my cables and small plastic shifter hold be back all the time, I reckon without them I could do everything much better. Commonyes, they'll be considered a cheat by some and good by others, why not just stick gears on the bike, and then there will be no question as to who is the better rider then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIX Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I dont think there is a question anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 i would just stick gears on but i run a single speed king hub and cant fit 6 gears on it. if i wanted 6 gears i would have to take the king iso off my xc bike and re build the wheelthen i wouldnt be able to entre any xc races cus i would have single speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) a thumb shifter on the seat tube is allowed as you CAN touch and move it, you dont have to touch the seat tube. most poeple run gripshift though, so the shifter is on the bars.this has gone way too far. and its repeating itself. someone "broke" the rules, TUFF SH!T. someone had to pay for the penilisation(edit: this bit was about the FEE that had to be paid for it to take place, not a dig at anyone kind of thing). TUFF SH!T. its happened the more you moan or winge about it, nothings going to change it.im sorry if that seems harsh but its the fact of life. im sorry if people are upset about it, but as dave33 has said, if he wishes to run singlespeed he will he does it for fun, if you wish to compete in competition you therefore have to "abide" by the rules. if not and your caught and someone is willing to pay the penilisation cost. then it can not be amended. sorry but this is the rules. UCI is/can be alot worse than this, there is frigging money @ stake!!!!!!! god could you imagine it, vincent and co having a punch up JUST because someone "didnt" abide by the rules????(edit: there was 2,000 euros available at a comp in marseille last friday evening, if someone had of won BUT their bike was in no fit state and someone complained, they look @ the rules and would take it from their, it cant be one rule for one and a different one for someone else sorry.)Je Ne Aime Com Prom Pas................i hope that means what i think it should "i do not think so" haha.Andrei was unlucky, but he knows/knew the 6 speed rule. just as i have known its one of the more "blatent" rules of trials. i wonder if i turned up to the next one without a helmet i would be ok? or with shorts on? people will notice and will point it out.like myself and others, i ONLY put gears on for "British Championship" and for the world round i competed in. other than that i DO NOT run gears. at the mo i cant be bothered saving the "300grams" in my rear mech a cable and shifter,i wont take it off unless i smash something in.the better man rises without complain, yes there is reason to be upset. it was text book error. bringing football into this doesnt count its like say number 7 is faster than number 9 therefore he has an "advantage" :S lol!!!!Waynio............................ Edited March 21, 2006 by Waynio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) I thought the gear rule was to keep 26" trials bikes more of a mountain bike rather than letting it go towards a mod bike with a favoured gear.As for Andrei he clearly had a mech and cassette cogs and he could change gears with his hand, there is no advantage, and I can't understand why it wasn't mentioned at the start of the trial instead of at the end when the results where made hmm, that's very strange .Phil. Edited March 21, 2006 by totaltrials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIX Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Someone correct me if Im wrong, but your hand can only touch the handle bar???I have been given a five before for picking my bike out of a hole in a section by the toptube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robster Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Gears rule is shit!!! There is no need for it.And if I was andrei, and if people are going to be soo f**king petty just cos they didnt win, and I dont know if its fred or ben, but I would complain that fred helped set out the sections. Thats more of an advantage than not having gears.Ruins the sport. Glad I didnt waste my time going.Fred naver actually helped to set out the sections. He only came up for an hour or so. So no cheating or advantage was gained there. Besides Fred wasn't riding on Sunday Ben was ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh_b Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I wonder how many people were running their bikes with shifters on but the gears werenot actually set up so didnt work . Also as barry said the bikes should be scrutineered before the trial then Andrei would have been given the oppertunity to add a shifter and cable. In my opinion it's a silly excuse to take someone's well deserved win away for a minor thing like that which gives no real advantage. I have seen vincent hermance put his bike on the scrutineering table at the french BIU world round, have his gears checked then cable tie the rear mech up after inspection right in front of the scruteneer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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