The Evolution Of Trials

[Danny]

I just spent the last hour or two watching various old trialskings and mtt/island trials movies and the riding in them still inspires me much more than any recent video. I don't know what it is about these old videos but the style of riding seams to have something extra.

Sure watching newer videos such as TM2 etc are great but for me at least the magic just doesn't seam to be there like it used to be.

I don't mean this in offence to anyone and wondered what everyones opinions on the matter is. Is there a definite line between these styles? Is it just the nostalgia of it all that grab me? Remembering the days of riding every night with 6/7 riders.

Discuss.

[spunkey_monkey_boy]

i'm with you on this one, nothing inspires me to ride like chainspotting...

[Matt_Tupman]

.... and Evolve is the best trials film ever made even though the moves might not be big on todays standered.

Trials today has got very size oritated, biggest tap, largest gap ect..

Thats why natty wins

[andyroo]

Danny, you know what this means don't you...

...you're getting old!

"It's not like it was in my day!"

But seriously, I think the growing popularity of trials has introduced more formality to the sport, it's not about having fun anymore. Its about who can go the biggest.

[PaRtZ]

Danny, you know what this means don't you...

...you're getting old!

"It's not like it was in my day!"

lmao

I can't really say I agree with the "older" stuff but I know why. I haven't been into to trials as long as some people on here so I wasn't inspired by Chainspotting, I was inspired by Canberratrials and Martyn Walker's vids. After riding for about 9 months my mate showed me chainspotting and I wasn't that impressed, because I had become "desensitized" by those awesome aussie doods :D

I don't disrespect the "older" riders, I still believe ashton _pwns all. But the riding he was doing ages ago doesn't appeal to me much

On a similar level, most people in NMC believe CLS is the greatest rider alive....

[JIX]

I hate to say it but were old. When those films came out we were young and just starting to learn cool stuff and for me anyway it was the first time seeing alot of the stuff. Also stuff like evolve was properly made and was at a time when trials was becoming a bit more popular.

Now were all seasoned and know everything it is rare to see a vid that shows you something you havent seen before.

EDIT: partz above makes the same point as me but from his perspective

Edited February 27, 2006 by JIX

[Olly C]

I just spent the last hour or two watching various old trialskings and mtt/island trials movies and the riding in them still inspires me much more than any recent video. I don't know what it is about these old videos but the style of riding seams to have something extra.

Exact Same, Could be down to nostalgia or they could just be timeless classics, one way to find out would be upload some and see what the riders who have started riding within the last year or there abouts and see there opinions..

[Tom Booth]

But seriously, I think the growing popularity of trials has introduced more formality to the sport, it's not about having fun anymore. Its about who can go the biggest.

Im not being funny, but perhaps some riders find that fun? Im not saying i do, because at the minute im trying the dark sde of riding, and finding it so much fun.

Cant do it propely thou..damn 120mm stem on a t-rex ahh well, still bunny hop it

[andyroo]

Im not being funny, but perhaps some riders find that fun? Im not saying i do, because at the minute im trying the dark sde of riding, and finding it so much fun.

Cant do it propely thou..damn 120mm stem on a t-rex ahh well, still bunny hop it

I mean like that people are taking trials too seriosuly and are only interested in results, rather than the actual fun in riding. I know what I mean, even if noone else does

[boon racoon]

I mean like that people are taking trials too seriosuly and are only interested in results, rather than the actual fun in riding. I know what I mean, even if noone else does

I hear you

Riding's all gone a bit stale these days. When the TKs were around they were tapping, sidehopping and gap dropping far higher and further than anyone else of the day. Yet they were doing so much other cool stuff aswell which they put out, and people tried to copy. Where's all that coming from now?

[CBProductions]

See I started properly only about a year ago and the trialkings videos and BI-king really inspired me, and these days I feel there is just the same lines going on, although myself I try for those lines it is only to master the skills to do the line I want to do.

I remember doing the same with my DH riding , going from watching steve peat jumping on a rigid gt over sofas to him on a orange blitzing les gets in france.

Is it getting to the broken record stage of riding styles....... hmmm maybe

[ScotchDave]

Im not being funny, but perhaps some riders find that fun? Im not saying i do, because at the minute im trying the dark sde of riding, and finding it so much fun.

Cant do it propely thou..damn 120mm stem on a t-rex ahh well, still bunny hop it

I can remember when the dark side was measuring stuff.

[Todge]

I agree.

These older street style videos are much better then most of the new stuff. Out riding the other week with Olly and he was on about how it used to be much better a few years ago, but we are all getting old and too safe now

[ghosts_cloak]

I like both the new and the old!

I have been into mountain biking (not trials in particular) since before the MBUK videos "Dirt", Getta Grip and Chainspotting etc, and I look back fondly at those vids. But I do really enjoy all the new vids too! My favourites are the vids by Felix (too smooth!) and plenty of others are great too I wouldnt particularly say that any "generation" of video inspires me to ride than another.

Gaz

[Rich Pearson]

I'm genuinely undecided on this one. I've always been inspired by Evolve and Revolution, yet vids from AndyT and Niof seem to almost give me that same kind of buzz. But then I don't really like Chainspotting type videos due to the elitist attitude which comes across from alot of the riders in those older UK vids.

I dunno, as far as I can see its not really weather the video was made in 1996 or 2006, but different nations tend to have different approaches which are more appealing. I like vids like Island Style or Monkey Buisness or Manifesto, as much as I like the Aorta and KoxxDays vids, as they just have a much more relaxed attitude.

Me, James (Porter) and Sam (Wheeler) were talking about something like this at the Hampshire comp yesterday, about the way alot of UK riders in particular have a very loud and (trying to choose my words carefully here.....) aggressive style of not riding but of personality WHEN riding. If you follow me. Probably not..... Its 11o'clock, I'm tired.....

Will try and make some sense of this in the morning.

Rich

[AndyT]

I thing I notice in todays vids vs "old" ones...

before- there were sections.

now- its just 1 big move after another...there is no story...sometimes this is the way it goes; for me vincent likes to ride like this as do most of the pro riders when they are infront of a camera- they just want one big move on film. You can't tell a "story" like htat, you need a section in it...the good videos have sections.

sorry if this has been talked about, I didn't have time to read the replies

and for me, my favorite / most popular videos that i have done...I kind of write a screenplay in my head. After I select the music to set the mood you have to go through all your footage and watch it 2-3 times and set up a screenplay, figure out where you want stuff to go and what sort of ideas and feelings you want the viewer to have.

james hyland had a great talent at this...imo the trialskings videos are the greatest things ever produced, even by todays standards. You can see new videos of holyrod and it doesn't have the same spark- it is all in the editing...the riding is better now, but the editing and the storytelling is all gone...its hollow.

[Hurman]

I just spent the last hour or two watching various old trialskings and mtt/island trials movies and the riding in them still inspires me much more than any recent video. I don't know what it is about these old videos but the style of riding seams to have something extra.

Sure watching newer videos such as TM2 etc are great but for me at least the magic just doesn't seam to be there like it used to be.

I don't mean this in offence to anyone and wondered what everyones opinions on the matter is. Is there a definite line between these styles? Is it just the nostalgia of it all that grab me? Remembering the days of riding every night with 6/7 riders.

Discuss.

Those early videos are unique and there was nothing around like that at the time. Now every other person has the ability to film or at least capture video clips on their phone, in those days the mobile phone was just that and not a full video editing suite!

I have an old Ot Pi video which still inspires me to go dig my old bike out and put my 'glubs' on!! Those videos remind me of the days when I had a modified steel framed mountain bike with a home made bash guard and very bent forks. But the thing was the guys in the videos had very similar bikes because there was no such thing as a dedicated 26" trials bike and even the Monty's were rare.

Trials videos may have lost their edge because anyone can, and everyone does, make them and it takes a lot of sifting through the dross to see something inspiring but they are still there.

[Mark W]

I think I'm still not really over the shock of seeing Danny make a topic in Trials Chat, but here goes

First off, people are complaining about it being about "going big" now. Think of another sport though, say, 100m sprinting. In that, you are fully against the clock. It's about refining the technique, and being the best. That's pretty much the attitude that people are bringing to trials now - getting your technique absolutely dialled, then trying to do it as big as possible.

If you look back to the origins of trials which was comp riding, it's closely related to that - you start off in a lower category and as you improve try and work towards the highest comp category, and to be champion. To do that, you've got to ride better than everyone else. Either way, the point I'm trying to make is that someone trying to go bigger can still be enjoying trials, it's just that they enjoy it in a different way to how, say, a street rider would do it. Even street riders try and do stuff bigger - if you can 180 off something, why not 360 it? If you can 180 a gap, why not try a 360 gap instead? If you can carve a wallride that high, why not do it higher? It's the natural thing to do - do whatever you want in as 'extreme' (not meant in the "XTREME SPORTS" sense of the word ) way possible. Matt (Berridge ), you mentioned something about it being all about inches, yet in - say - Do The Goon Again, you're trying to do that hop-to-manual up that grass bank to stepped wall on the highest part of it when you can already do it on the lowest. That mentality is the same as the "inch" riders have, it's just they're doing different moves? That's all it comes down to - 'street' is largely the same as the 'big' riding, it's just different ways of doing it. In 'street' you'll be trying to do a better manual, abubaca, tyre-tap or whatever, but in 'big' riding you'll be trying to do a better tap, gap or drop. I'm not saying that one way of riding's better than another, just my perspective on the difference, really. It's weird how it's frowned upon to do 'big' riding now, when it's just a different facet of trials? Just 'cos it's not someone's favourite type of riding doesn't mean it's a bad thing at all, it's just a different way of using a bike on a set of objects.

Saying one's worse than the other 'cos the videos aren't as fun to watch is a bit sketchy too, seeing as you could - for example - have some awesome street with a shit edit and it'd be dick to watch, in the same way that you could have shit 'big' riding with an awesome edit and it'd be OK to watch (sorta ).

I still love watching the TK vids, but I think a lot of it's probably sentimental value? Like looking back to see how far you've come, almost? From watching HD1 for example, when that first came out it was like "f**k, that riding is *mad*" and to a large extent it still is, but you can see how closer you are to it now (or not), but it's just thinking back to that time. People almost always think that the past is better than the present and better than the future, and it seems to be similar to that. They're still great videos, but the editing on them is what probably made it as opposed to the riding (which is great itself). I think it's just that those vids means a lot to the older trials community, when you used to have to wait ages for a TK vid, and when it came it'd be awesome, instead of having a new company_vid_## every other week which has the same sort of riding in it, just bigger.

I guess 'cos the older members (in terms of riding years mostly ) were there nearer the start of trials, I suppose it's going to seem like everything's copied now just 'cos more stuff has been learnt now than will be created in the future? I mean, most "new" tricks or moves are just adaptations of old ones. It's just like that 'standing on the shoulders of giants' thing, so I guess if you were there at the start, it's always going to be different.

This post was powered by f**king amazing honey+banana sandwiches

[Danny]

I thing I notice in todays vids vs "old" ones...

before- there were sections.

now- its just 1 big move after another...there is no story...sometimes this is the way it goes; for me vincent likes to ride like this as do most of the pro riders when they are infront of a camera- they just want one big move on film. You can't tell a "story" like htat, you need a section in it...the good videos have sections.

sorry if this has been talked about, I didn't have time to read the replies

Ive never noticed that but i think youve hit the nail on the head there andy

[boon racoon]

I didn't say anything about inchs Mark

ARGH It's hard to explain but i'll try (I'm not dissing anyone here before everyone jumps on the hate me bandwagon) Maybe it's just because i'm and old boy like you say, the nostalgia. I'm also talking for UCI street not natural..that's totally different

I think simply, a wall is a wall be it 3" high or 300" high. On big rides 20 riders on silver bikes come up to said wall and try and tap/sidehop as high as they can, then move a little bit higher. Or they film it. It IS all the same moves...and not just those.

To ME that isn't interesting or exciting. But then I'm a funny fanny

I suppose i'm on about creativity and amplitude. Your example was true..it was amplitude. But I didn't spend a whole ride (exaggeration) trying to nail it, or an identical bank to wall just like it in a different place. When I go out with Mike, creativity or flow or linking things up is what's fun to us, so we do it.

Surely one can see there are a lot more possibilities when you add spins, pedals, dropouts, fakies, nosepicks, silly things etc etc. That's why it gets less boring (for me) You might say everything is the same just on different stuff with the above things added, but I'd say every spot I visit has a lot more possibilities than someone going for taps and sidehops.

My point about the TKs was that yes they had the amplitude of taps etc but their videos didn't show JUST this and thus were so bloody amazing. Cos you're like "coor who'd have thought you can do that eh? not seen that before. as if!!" Not just "shit that's a bigger gap than the last video" New and exciting lines were coming out every week from these guys.

Perhaps cos trials is older now you've seen most things? What more can be done? What new moves HAVE you seen in a video in the last 6 months which aren't just bigger varients of a video before? I haven't seen much from the UCI boys (again, no offence) Yet I still marvel at their riding because it's f**king amazing, just I can't comprehend why you'd find it exciting

It wasn't like that back then...

(Of course, I generalised a lot in my post. I apologise)

Phew. Who'd have thought i'd been writing a formal report all night

Edited February 28, 2006 by the boon

[Mark W]

Yeah, that whole culture is why I often don't like going on big group rides; the lining up to do the same rail-gap never did it for me.

Thing is, if you look at Ben's (hulltrials) new vid, you can see those tap to 90 things, the tap-to-fronts, etc. That IS new stuff, for that type of riding. It's all moving forwards, it's just I guess different riders are more in tune with different types of riding - you get me?

About pedals and dropouts and stuff, that's not necessarily a great example? My BMX at the moment is setup pegless (and possibly soon to be brakeless...) 'cos I hate grinding stuff. I'm not going to suddenly start grinding just to do more stuff? I mean, I f**king hate pedal stalls in street and stuff like that, in the same way that I absolutely loathe/detest sidehops to pedal, so I don't do 'em. We all pick what we prefer and then do that, so I guess that's all that the 'UCI' riders are doing? They prefer that style, so they'll want to do it bigger. I'm sure some of them can't understand you and Mike play on those weird-ass benches by castle park in Bristol for ages?

I see what you're saying about the riders and locatins though, although that IS pretty specific. If there was a bunch of thin walls set at different distances and angles to each other, UCI boys could probably sidehop, tap and gap to their heart's content, but you possibly wouldn't have as much fun. On the other hand, find a flatbank to sub and you're happy but they're not? Just comes down to what's there?

EDIT: I'm not being an arguementative fanny, btw. Just that this thread's approx. 100x more interesting than "Which is best, 61mm of BB rise or 62mm" or whatever

[Tony Harrison]

I think simply, a wall is a wall be it 3" high or 300" high. On big rides 20 riders on silver bikes come up to said wall and try and tap/sidehop as high as they can, then move a little bit higher. Or they film it. It IS all the same moves...and not just those.

Totally agree. What's worse is when they queue for the same 1 foot wide bit of the wall when the damn thing is about 20 yards long...

Thing is, if you look at Ben's (hulltrials) new vid, you can see those tap to 90 things, the tap-to-fronts, etc. That IS new stuff, for that type of riding. It's all moving forwards, it's just I guess different riders are more in tune with different types of riding - you get me?

Nah, Phil Williams was doing those tap variations years ago...

[Al_Fel]

This is exactly why I asked for the video sooke 2 in sites vids and pics.

I've lost my way in trials a little bit but i'm gonna get back into it.

[Brian Bleech]

those trialskings video were awesome - some of the stuff they were doing - huge taps and gaps on zebbers with 50mm stems but yeah i have been watching those vids for ages and there has been loadsa times when i have gone out and one of my mates has gone 'i tried/did the gap/line that holyrod/burns did in HD1/etc/etc' - there were/are amazing riders and way ahead of there time.

it is just different styles really and what other people find fun

But its weird in Leeds because there are so many different riding styles and when i go out riding with different people i do ride different. Its all lines and silly crap with Boon and with say Tim i probably go a bit bigger and try more 'pure' trials stuff. Its all good though and is great fun on smaller rides i prefer having a variety of styles out. But big rides i tend to go off and do my own thing and just mess about because i can't be arsed queueing for a wall.

[petit_pablo]

I like both the older riding style and the new, comp inspired style.

I think I was 15 when chainspotting came out originally and i watched it to death, i may even have had to buy a new copy. Its still the vid i turn to if i want to motivate myself to ride.

Plus, the wall in the newbury train station carpark is huge!!