Saw This On Google News

[nb88]

If you really think about it, we all only have 'freedom of speech' up to a certain point. There is no real freedom of speech. To me that's almost as much bullcrap as religion itself.

If i was a hitler worshipping nazi and i stood in the street preaching about nazi beliefs, i would be arrested and everyone on earth would probabaly hate me. However how is that any different to preaching religion?

Every religion is predudice against certain groups of people, and if they aren't entirely they contradict themself somewhere along the line (chrstianity on homosexuals for example).

I could easily make up my own religion and call racism and cultural predudice my beliefs, the same way that catholics are against abortion. However i would probabaly go to jail.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying everyone should follow science and live their life by strict rules, but if you believe something, just believe it, don't tell everyone else about it, as-if you are too insecure to believe it all by yourself. I have loads of different theories and beliefs about what could be real, wha could be fake, what happens when we die, what i WOULD LIKE to happen when we die, but i don't grab my meaphone and 'protest' about how others have lost their way becasue they don't agree with me. If someone asks i have a good conversation about it and swap ideas, i don't cry becasue i'm the only one that thinks that way.

If people want to listen, they'll ask, no matter what the subject, imo religious preachers aren't 'spreading the word of god' they are making themselve feel more secure by getting sheep to follow them. Or in the case of the middleages and so on, getting peoples respect using the fear of god, to make them richer in society.

Religion is a tool of profit.

Well yes there has to be a limit to freedom of speech or itd just be total mayhem...people could start openly talking about paedophilia or some shite like that. There is a difference between preaching religion and preaching racial hate, religious preachers dont express hate for other religions or influence violence (usually unless there some corrupt maniac).

I personally think religion is a good thing... in areas where religion is still strong it gives a good feeling of brotherhood and 'closeness', and in many cases it can help someone who is ill or dying for example. The feeling of going to heaven is much more appealing than being eaten by worms. Its when science and religion mix that the problems come to be honest.

An example of freedom of speech going overboard at the moment is the cartoon published in a danish newspaper (i think) showing the prophet Mohammed (islam) with a bomb as a turban on his head - totally disgraceful if you ask me and a good example of going over the line of 'free speech'.

[MadManMike]

I'm perfectly polite to them, I usually say "Sorry i'm late for work" otherwise they keep hassling me. (I'm sure they'll suspect me - I seem to be late for work every day )

[desire68]

I'm perfectly polite to them, I usually say "Sorry i'm late for work" otherwise they keep hassling me. (I'm sure they'll suspect me - I seem to be late for work every day )

To be honest,as a christian i see the methods of Jesus army wrong,the bugging and hassling seems more like the makeup of a religious cult than anything else to me. This is totally my opinion!

Mike

[RicH_87]

Wasn't hitler all about dictatorship...

ALOT of christian/catholic churchs/schools (especially in America) dictate to young children about not having sex before marrage, not getting pregnant, not having abortions etc. They use scare tactics in the form of satan and hell to scare children, that is a form of psycological abuse, a lot of people are scared for life as a result of being taught about hell at a young age.

And what about muslims being brainwashedinto serving allah by suicide bombings, yes its the extreme end of religion, but its religion all the same.

...and segregating his followers from the rest of the world

and if you didn't conform then you were killed??

Pope?? he's a religios leader, one of the richest men in the world, absoluteley untouchable, if you get to close in the 'wrong way' you'd be hung in most countries.

At least if you don't want to become a christian then nobody is forcing you or threatening to kill you if join up.

What about that doctor in the US who performed abortions that was murdered by a religious fanatic. He said taking life was wrong on the part of the doctor, yet he took a fully grown mans life who had a wife and children, and had improved many people lives through his work. Bit of a massive contradiction don't you think?

And at the end of it all he still protested his innocence becasue he did it in the 'name of god'. Yet, if god is so great why didn't he just let God deal with the doctor when he died?

There are so many contradictions and flaws in religious preaching/beliefs it just simply annoys me. I believe strongly in telling the truth and living by the truth, so people who base their entire life and even their actions on unproven fiction, to me, is amazingly nieve and ignorant. And when they go as far as to kill a man for being 'wrong in their eyes' and 'in the name of God', that just defies words.

Sure have your fictional beliefs, even live your life by them, but don't shout about it and certainly don't act on other people becasue of it.

[desire68]

Rich,

I don't profess to have all the answers but you said it right there with regards to the religious FANATIC.and that's exactly what he was,a fanatic.there are a lot of wrong teachings out their,and yes you would have to be very naive to believe the first thing you heard or read,but this man who says he acted in the name of God was totally wrong,and i can say that as a fact,because if he was acting in the name of God he would have been bound by the ten commandments and the one that says Though shall not kill was completely ignored here.

This guy is an example of when your armed with half of the facts and you go off half cocked,doing what you want to do under the guise of christianity(totally wrong)

Mike

[nb88]

Truth is, nobody knows the truth... the majority of science hasnt been proven, especially in areas like cosmology where its all theories, no facts as such.

[desire68]

Rich,i really don't think you would be killed for not following Roman cathollosism(Pope) as a religion,but i agree with you in that if you got too close to him in a public place,his bodyguards might show some concearn!

Mike

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

Go out into your street and start discussing allah, and how white men are the devil, you wont be free to talk for very long.

i agree BUT that would be inciting racial hatred , go out in the street talking about niggers , same thing

[desire68]

i agree BUT that would be inciting racial hatred , go out in the street talking about niggers , same thing

Charel,

Could you not have just said Black people??

Mike

[desire68]

Hi again,just adding a comment from another christian biker friend of mine!

My name is Aidan, and I'm a Christian. I've read all this, and thought I should say some stuff. I'm not going to shove anything down your throat (well, technically your eyes), but I would ask you to take some time to read this.

Firstly, I'd like to ask how many of you think of the philosopical works of people like Herodotus, or Thucydides, or Tacitus? when I know this, I'll show you something else.

RicH_87> Actually, there are no contradictions in the Bible. However, there are people who interpret things completely wrongly. And when they then, as in the example you gave, kill somebody because they thought that person was doing something against GOD, it's not the Bible that is being contradictory, it is the person who is twisting what the Bible teaches and being hypocritical

[RicH_87]

RicH_87> Actually, there are no contradictions in the Bible. However, there are people who interpret things completely wrongly. And when they then, as in the example you gave, kill somebody because they thought that person was doing something against GOD, it's not the Bible that is being contradictory, it is the person who is twisting what the Bible teaches and being hypocritical

i can't really be bothered arguing this anymore, but i just wanted to point out you can't say something like that with no evidence.

there is plenty of evidence in the Bible itself (both new and old testament) which contradicts itself, escpecially on the subject of homosexuality and on sex itself.

One part even talks about offering your daughter for sex instead on your guest, because he is a guest afterall... (i forget the exact wording).

anyway, i've spoken about this sorta stuff with many people, i failed RE becasue i just voiced my own (contarversial) opinions in the exam, rather than putting what they wanted me to put. I've also found that the people who strongly believe in the bible/religion are people who got it forced down their throat at a young age, and when pulled up on many parts of it they have no comback, or just say something like "that's what God wants" or "no one can explain the ways of God"...

Their are also the people who have a near death experience or see and angel or something and turn to god as a result, but they just come across as disalusioned hippies that just talk about hos lucky they are.

meh, maybe i'm the disalusioned one and i'm gonna pay for saying all this, but somehow i doubt it.

jesus shaped potatoe chip anyone? oh wait no it's obviously a sign from god, lets hang it on the wall at out local alter. (as if the most powerful being know to man would come in the form of a crisp or damp stain )

oh and anyone read the papers? blairs religiuos hatred bill failed to pass so i guess it's ok to hate religion afterall.

[SQuiT-man]

haha i can see it now, "just after failing to tap 58 inches, a priest comes up and says "if you believed in god you would make that tap with ease"

Ben

ROTF, that would be amusing.

Personally, Im not a major fan of religion, I see it as a form of misguiding/brainwashing the masses, with huge expense to our societies. It does however have a few good effects- it can guide people into leading more positive lives which can have a knock-on effect on improving a lot of attitudes in the world, even if this is done by people possibly "living a lie" in my opinion. But perhaps living for something that isn't true isn't as bad as it sounds- it gives you something to look forward to, think of, etc..

Overall, my personal belief is that the world would be a much better place if ALL religion did not exist, as then people could live relatively normal lives without having so many contradicting beliefs.

Think about it- supposedly every war in history has been caused by a clash of religions beliefs/beliefs on how to lead your life.

[desire68]

Rich_87 Don't give up to early man,my mate (CB) wants to have the chance to answer your last post,so have a read and see what you think!!

Rich (and everyone else too, I guess)> I know which bit you're talking about the woman being offered for sex. It's in Judges, and it's not saying we should ALL do that, it's just saying that it happened, and it was BAD. The mob which took the girl actually were coming to rape the guest. But just cos it's in the Bible doesn't mean we're going "Oh it's in the Bible, so therefore it must be the right thing to do!" NO!! Not at all. The people had turned away from GOD and were living sinful lives, and, to be fair, a fair few people in this world are the same (turning their backs on GOD, not bum-raping people) - myself included at times! Also, on sex? Haha, BIG misconception - GOD does NOT hate sex! Think about it, He created it the way it is! But He also knows it's emotional powers, and so said "Right, to save you from hurting yourselves or anyone else, make sure you only have sex inside a promise; Marriage." Also, back in Moses' times, sex was a sign to show that the two people had become one; I've heard that people weren't properly married until they had had sex to show they were one, bound by an agreement. That's why He said not to commit adultery.

You need to understand, the first few books of the Old Testament are the Law (i.e. GOD setting the rules for the Jews to follow). At the end of the Old Testament are the prophet's books, and in the middle are the 'poetic' books. The NEW Testament is not a contradiction, it's a fulfilment of the Old Testament. We no longer have to spend a week in the desert isolated from everyone else because we ate a piece of pork and spend a week washing or something, because Jesus fulfilled that by dying on the cross. The Isralites in the Old Testament had to do all the washing and cleansing and sacrificing and so on and so forth to make themselves right before GOD. Because GOD cannot be near any sin, so we have to be made clean in His sight. The Jews had to sacrifice a pure Lamb that had no defeciencies or anything, and the blood of the animal represented GOD's forgiveness over their sins. But because Jesus died on the cross, we no longer have to do this. Jesus is often referred to as the Lamb of GOD, the pure and spotless Lamb - Jesus died once and for all for our sin, He was the perfect sacrifice, and now, if we ask GOD for forgiveness and actually mean it, He will forgive us. He sent His one and only Son to die so that we may have eternal life.

This is Grace. Grace is a totally undeserved gift, given to us by GOD. We shouldn't have it, but that is just how much He loves us. And to me, that's mindblowing.

You might think I'm shoving this down your throat, but I have to tell you that what 've said is the TRUTH, and it's up to you to accept it or not (I strongly advise that you do!). I think people don't like being told about Jesus or GOd or anything because deep down you know it's true and that if you accept it you will have to change but you don't want to. I tell you, that change is the best change there is...EVER! So do it, really, you should.

Oh, and I think this thing they are doing is great, you know, the thing that got this whole topic started! I think it's a bit silly to be putting a name to it ('Fresh Expressions'), or even that there is a news bullitin about it! I mean, this type of thing has been going on for a long time!!

Posted on behalf of (CB) from another bike forum!

Mike

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

if god exists , why do bad things happen.

[desire68]

if god exists , why do bad things happen.

Dude,that's like saying If barbers exsist,why do we have long hair!!

Bad things are gonna happen dude,it's how we deal with them that makes the difference!

Mike

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

elaborate , did god make aids and ebola to punish the wicked? we deal with it by trying to prevent it but it still allows it.

and i like how we personify god

if it does it exist who says it has gender , technically its a non specific deity

also , who says there is only one god? dont the other feel left out seeing as christians only worship the one?

edit number 2: its our choice to go to the barbers , it not our choice for natural disasters and suchwhat

Edited February 4, 2006 by Charel

[desire68]

elaborate , did god make aids and ebola to punish the wicked? we deal with it by trying to prevent it but it still allows it.

and i like how we personify god

if it does it exist who says it has gender , technically its a non specific deity

also , who says there is only one god? dont the other feel left out seeing as christians only worship the one?

edit number 2: its our choice to go to the barbers , it not our choice for natural disasters and suchwhat

Firstly God in my beleif is a HE so i refer to him as a he!!

Next,who said God made aids and ebola?? and surley you realise that these conditions are not just found in wicked people!

The bible(which guids all christians) tells us that there is one God,but many gods,look at the way it written,the capital G in God signifies the one true God of the Christian beleif and god with a small g signifies the idols and other things that are worshiped.

yes you are right about it being our choice to go to the barbers,but natural disasters don't operate under choice,they are as it is stated in your post,Natural.While i believe God does have a hand in Natural happenings, i also believe that he has a reason for what he does,but the man who dosn't believe in God,is hardly going to begin to understand him or his ways!

Mike

[Tomm]

To get back on topic, Desire, do you think that aiming Christianity at us extreme sports types and clubbers is a good idea? As you can see, you've come across some stiff opposition here, do you think it's a waste of time, or a necessary thing to have to do?

Just one question which is probably easier to answer from anyone who has even a slight knowledge of the Bible - Why does any Christian care whether other people believe in God? Or is it just like people on here feel the need to pimp their bike and recommend it to everyone on here, whether it's the best deal or not?

Personally I think Christianity has its upside - I would love to lie on my death bed (hopefully not for a long while*) and truly believe that I'm going to a better place, but I just don't. Which is a shame, I can certainly see the advantages in thinking like that. But I don't think I could ever believe in the way that is necessary. Oh well. Hopefully by that time we'll have invented a cure for death

*Thanks to science

[Mark W]

Personally I think Christianity has its upside - I would love to lie on my death bed (hopefully not for a long while*) and truly believe that I'm going to a better place, but I just don't. Which is a shame, I can certainly see the advantages in thinking like that. But I don't think I could ever believe in the way that is necessary. Oh well. Hopefully by that time we'll have invented a cure for death

*Thanks to science

The after-life gig is one of the things that doesn't make any sense to me... No-one here is likely to be able to get into heaven, because we all sin. Yet it says that we get forgiven for our sins by God, so why not just be a sinner all the time anyway in that case? Not least because it says Christ died for the consequences of our sins - the consequences of which would be eternal damnation, and so on. Not to mention God loves everyone, yet if we don't believe in him we get punished for it? It just seems a bit hypocritical - the all-loving, benevolent God f**king over people who don't believe in him, or believe in other religions. The whole thing about "Why is Christianity "real" and others aren't?" is a whole other issue though

Straw Dogs has a lot to answer for, as well as a lot of other literature. I just don't really know how I could ever take the bible seriously, knowing that a lot of the English version was basically 'creatively edited' so it fit in with what the Church was telling the people it said (due to it being in Latin, so they were effectively telling people what was in it), and just the way that any flaws in it are explained away in a really half-arsed way. Either way, the main thing is that it's so out of date now. The lifestyle that we are forced into living in means that there's a tiny, tiny chance you could ever lead a life that you didn't sin in repeatedly, and isn't not sinning the whole point of it all? It also seems weird how someone who doesn't sin, yet doesn't believe in God, also wouldn't get into 'heaven' or wherever... 2:16am isn't the time to compose my thoughts on it all though

Anyways, the whole idea of going out and interupting people doing what they want sounds to me like they're just going to fail. If people are at a skatepark, it's annoying enough being distracted by people, let alone having someone coming up to you offering you some kind of pamphlet or info. IT was bad enough when I was at home and the local religious ladies came up and knocked on the door and had a crack at converting me - if I was paying to ride a skatepark or had paid to get into a gig, I'd be pretty pissed off if my time was being taken away by someone trying to force something on me which I didn't like, or want to talk about at that point. All the other attempts at getting "young" "cool" people to act as missionaries or "hip priests" or whatever have all failed too, so it seems. At school, having a group of twentysomethings telling us about how great their life was now they'd found God and how cool Christianity did still glossed over any points anyone raised, and still didn't work as a tool of conversion. If people don't want to know about it, I don't see why they should have the info forced at them. If it happened with anything else, it'd be the same thing. If the Conservatives, for example, suddenly decided to get a skater crew together to try and spread the word of the Tories, they'd be met with the same response. It just won't work.

[1a2bcio8]

I can't be arsed to read all this topic.

The christian god, if true, is a sado. He derives sexual pleasure from our pain. He loves it like a man loves a women. He's blatantly up there knocking one off over people dying in hurricanes and earthquakes. I bet he wears a gimp costume.

[Mark W]

The giant elf turns sour?

[Tom Booth]

at least the jews arnt doing it.

Thats worse then then 20 stoner becomes a size 8 ater 7 pints, and you wake up with a beached whale ontop

Gonna voice my opinion here{read some of it, but as usual its turned into a bit of an argument}

Im all for religion, Just aslong as its not being shoved in my face. I wouldnt mind the freedom to spend my days doing as i wish without some chior boy ramming panflets in my face and screaming how jesus pulled bread out his ass and pissed wine.

Its just not a fair game, No-one pushes jeudaism into the christian preists face, Why should us non believers have to have someone tell us to join there religion?

I dont feel any hatred towards/against religious people either way, If they want to be a jew/hindu/christian, It is there choice, Just dont drag me into it.

Why cant we have the freedom to ride our bikes, go out to the clubs/pub for a good night out without some door to door preist preeaching about religion? Just give us some privacy and freedom!!

Tom

[1a2bcio8]

The giant elf was drunk last night. You wrote too much for his tiny alcohol filled brain. I'm really having trouble spelling alcohol this morning.

[desire68]

To get back on topic, Desire, do you think that aiming Christianity at us extreme sports types and clubbers is a good idea? As you can see, you've come across some stiff opposition here, do you think it's a waste of time, or a necessary thing to have to do?

Just one question which is probably easier to answer from anyone who has even a slight knowledge of the Bible - Why does any Christian care whether other people believe in God? Or is it just like people on here feel the need to pimp their bike and recommend it to everyone on here, whether it's the best deal or not?

Personally I think Christianity has its upside - I would love to lie on my death bed (hopefully not for a long while*) and truly believe that I'm going to a better place, but I just don't. Which is a shame, I can certainly see the advantages in thinking like that. But I don't think I could ever believe in the way that is necessary. Oh well. Hopefully by that time we'll have invented a cure for death

*Thanks to science

Ok Tomm,the only sports i take an interest in are all extreme,and yet,i'm a christian,so what's wrong with sharing a view point with a few fellow sportsmen.In answer to your question,i will say that it is a good idea.No matter what club or sport your in(with very few exceptions) there will always be someone who will benefit from hearing about God,so it might not be for you,but it will definitely be for someone and they should have the chance to hear about God weather they play ice hockey or trials ride for a living!!

The christian has a goal to share,and that's just what we do,share.If you don't accept, thats fine but that wont stop christians from sharing,it's what we do,this is why we seem to care!!

The upside that you mention is our reassurance,unfortunatually you won't have this reassurance unless you are committed to God and believe i him.as i've mentioned previously,i didn't believe before but i do now! and if i can change,anybody can!

Mike

[Ash-Kennard]

if i actually cared i think i would be a buddist, they seem to have the right frame ofmind and tend to stay out of trouble