I Dont Understand What Companies Want From Riders Nowadays?

[SQuiT-man]

Having said that, why don't companies sponsor big breasted beautiful pornstars to sell products? Would attract attention to the company

Im sure they would do if there were any around, it would make good business sense

[joker]

look at how many riders are actaully true professionals, for trials in the uk, who is a pro, ashton? any more???

[Tomm]

Having said that, why don't companies sponsor big breasted beautiful pornstars to sell products? Would attract attention to the company

Too expensive probably. I mean when Dan Ko (or whoever) subsidises a frame for one of his "sponsored riders", he is probably still making money off the frame, even if he sells it for £150 or something. Whereas you might actually have to pay some skanky-looking lady to thrust against your bike...

[thefletch]

You all seem to forget one important thing: Companies are trying to MAKE MONEY for themselves- they have to earn a living, and any oppertunities that they can promote their company to make more profit than they spend in doing so is a good oppertunity. Obviousy this seems to range a bit between some companies, such as deng (purely into profit, so sponsors pretty much only riders who can go big and do movies, for their "GO BIG" image that they know people will want to follow when people see their videos- this can bee seen perhaps by the fact that Deng may not have met a lot of his riders- its the paperwork that counts, which IMO is completely fair enough) and cleanbikes (a little less into just profit, they seem to actually slightly "help" riders a bit up to the top, probably because they get pleasure out of seeing their riders in their county aspire).

Ways to promote your trials company well are:

*Sponsor an amasing comp rider- if they win the champs, people will all be like "I want one of those!!"

*Sponsor someone who makes amasing videos- people will be like "Those frames make you ride HUGE"

*Sponsor a girl who perhaps isnt as good as some of the male competition (no offense)- makes your company look good, and promotes the company to girls, plus makes it look like "anyone can ride that bike" (no offense.. lmao at how bad that all sounds)

*Spnosor a young 'un who is good for his age- promotes company to other younger people who want the image/to ride like that

Thats how I see it.

another valid point, but tkae into account rider personality as well and we are almost there haha

[Ash-Kennard]

look at how many riders are actaully true professionals, for trials in the uk, who is a pro, ashton? any more???

depends what you mean by professionals, i think it means paid to ride, which it is, but i can name a few riders who get paid to ride, so there is more than just ashton

[SQuiT-man]

depends what you mean by professionals, i think it means paid to ride, which it is, but i can name a few riders who get paid to ride, so there is more than just ashton

Who can you name? Out of interest

[Joe_Elding]

So if you were in their shoes, You would turn down any deal offered?

f**k no.

BUT if i was a company i wouldnt offer a 12 year old a sponserhip because in a few years time they could be something good. I'd rather sponser one of the top riders at the moment for two years than sponser a twelve year old kid for 5 years just to find out he quits trials before earning the company any money. ( just an example)

[JT!]

such as deng (purely into profit, so sponsors pretty much only riders who can go big and do movies, for their "GO BIG" image that they know people will want to follow when people see their videos- this can bee seen perhaps by the fact that Deng may not have met a lot of his riders- its the paperwork that counts, which IMO is completely fair enough)

and cleanbikes (a little less into just profit, they seem to actually slightly "help" riders a bit up to the top, probably because they get pleasure out of seeing their riders in their county aspire).

What info are you making those comments on. Don't forget, Deng lives in china, he isn't going to pop across to see how they're doing is he? And i bet he dosn't just sit behind a desk counting pennys and laugh histericly.

And as for cleanbikes, they don't design frames / componets, they just sell them on. So they will have more time on their hands to manage sponcorship.

Pro = Someone who makes the majority of their money via trials. 99% of trials riders (no matter how good they are) make more money from their jobs. Therefor, they are not pro.

Alot of companys these days just sponcer their mates, for fun. That's what i think all this boils down to.

[SQuiT-man]

What info are you making those comments on. Don't forget, Deng lives in china, he isn't going to pop across to see how they're doing is he? And i bet he dosn't just sit behind a desk counting pennys and laugh histericly.

And as for cleanbikes, they don't design frames / componets, they just sell them on. So they will have more time on their hands to manage sponcorship.

Pro = Someone who makes the majority of their money via trials. 99% of trials riders (no matter how good they are) make more money from their jobs. Therefor, they are not pro.

Alot of companys these days just sponcer their mates, for fun. That's what i think all this boils down to.

Its just how they seem to come across by the sort of people they sponsor (zoo sponsoring people like CLS and tunni, whereas cleanbikes sponsor more competition-entering-type people), the kind of customer service you get from them etc. I know cleanbikes doesnt make frames, I never said they did, but they seem to have a more personal approach when you contact them, and from what I have seen they have a more personal relationship with thier sponsors too.

You might be onto something about companies sponsoring mates or people they bump into a lot though.

Edited January 23, 2006 by SQuiT-man

[Burton]

I agree with Porter, Waynio and Flecth.

Sponsorship isnt what it was like back when i first started. To be sponsored, you had to be sick good, like the Koxx, Megamo and Monty teams.

Now companies are giving away everything to riders who aren't that good, and to those who are of less quality, to just promote their company. I suppose its good in a business sense, but it can make riders 'big-headed' or make the company seem for sponsoring poorer riders.

Hermance is mainly sponsored because his uncle(?) owns Koxx, Dominique(sp?).

[CurtisRider]

Hermance is mainly sponsored because his uncle(?) owns Koxx, Dominique(sp?).

and cos hes frickin amazing

[Burton]

and cos hes frickin amazing

Probably because of his uncle giving him any part, any geo he desired?

Alos his uncle probably helped him attend comps, train etc. to make him pro quality, to promote his company.

He probably wasnt amazing straight away?

[James_Porter]

I agree with Porter, Waynio and Flecth.

Sponsorship isnt what it was like back when i first started. To be sponsored, you had to be sick good, like the Koxx, Megamo and Monty teams.

Now companies are giving away everything to riders who aren't that good, and to those who are of less quality, to just promote their company. I suppose its good in a business sense, but it can make riders 'big-headed' or make the company seem for sponsoring poorer riders.

Hermance is mainly sponsored because his uncle(?) owns Koxx, Dominique(sp?).

haha ye that last comment is a bit wrong there...vince is like one if not the best stock rider in the world...im sure he would have the same deal if his dad wasnt the owner, monty or someone would have snapped him up.

for 99% of companies sponsoring a rider is there way of advertising...there is no doubt about that...thats the whole point at the end of the day...

thus they need someone to promote thier company, someone good, someone who makes blinding videos (much like cls and neil, how much smaller would zoo be without them?).

there are different sponsorship deals around to be honest...as i said there is the advertising side of it, but there is also a MINUTE amount of companies/people that are helping riders out cause they want to see them grow to thier full potential and helping them will get them to go far.

what i mean by this is...

someone rides for a company, the company sends them a bike...tell them to do some comps make some videos...

then there is another rider riding for another company.

the kid is riding for them, and they company asks them about riding thier products, but there is no real pressure in the deal, they havent TOLD the rider they must make videos and do comps.

yet the company organises travelle to a couple of comps because they think they can do well in them and want them to do them because they want to see the rider progress and let the rider have the dream.

the key thing which separates the 2 is the help you get.

yes one company may give you a frame...or even a bike...but will there be anything more? will they be helping you behind the scenes? giving you advice?

i bet that 95% of sponsorship deals chuck a bike at the rider and thats it...nothing else. that isnt a propper sponsorship deal imo.

my 5p

im sure i will think of some more sh*t to say in a bit...

im actually really interested on riders views on this, as it is a big part of trials now.

[Swindon rider]

My take on this subject, is its aimed at James Porter, he's a PROPER bummer and he's GINGER FFS!! how can he deserve a sponsorship, look at him for gods sake!! PROPER BUMMER. He's so far up his own arse when he sneezes he blows out poo poo.

Im BLATENTLY better than he will ever be, he can even back hop really, in his videos he does one hop, because thats all he can do and repeats it over and over, onto and off of stuff.

Oh and he is ACTUALLY gay, he always gets chatted up by gays because his Gay-day <tm> rays are so strong.

Seriously mate SORT IT OUT.

<oh for those noobs who don't know im his mate, and this is only a joke, as i know you lot love any chance to go off on one >

[James_Porter]

right thats it FOOL.

im no mate of yours, your just my wannabe with your dyed ginger locks and shagwire pubes. GET A LIFE...and leave my blow up dole alone.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SPONSORSHIP IS THE SHIZWACK

Edited January 23, 2006 by James_Porter

[Swindon rider]

Oh come off it James, you proper loved me hard today though, i thought we were friends? I only changed my hair and pubes to rusty wire wool so I cud be YOU! You said you loved me, but seriously since u got sponsored youve TOTALLY changed....

[cleanbikes]

At cleanbikes we like to pick a rider - usually a blue route comp rider - and give them a hand.

Yes, they get cheaper bikes/parts out of it, but we only ever choose people who already ride the makes we sell - we don't believe in persuading people to change their bikes just so they can get a "cheap deal". It's got to be right for them.

But they also get promotion of themselves and encouragement ... who had ever heard of James Hyland, CLS, Ben Slinger, Ali C before cleanbikes sponsored them back in 2002? Very few I guess. I think I'm right in saying that they were all blue route comp riders. (I must admit to feeling proud of them all riding at the Bike Show in 2005 - even though we no longer sponsor them, also very proud of Chris Walker becoming listed as a Monty International rider.)

Cleanbikes are pretty much comp orientated - I've been helping organise trials comps since January 1998, so in a way you could say it's my hobby - and it makes me feel good to be able to watch and encourage a rider improve in his/her results (and I'm pretty good at that, as spunkey_monkey could tell you from Sunday!).

Believe me when I say sponsoring someone in the way we do does not make money. I'm self-employed in secretarial & book-keeping - but if I were to charge on all of the time I put into organising trials, giving lifts to comps, talking to the lads/lassies - trials could not afford me! For example, Sunday's trial alone took me an estimated 28½ hours and 120 miles - and I do that voluntarily at least once every four weeks!

Someone asked me on Friday when we were soaked through and freezing whilst setting up "why do you do it?".

The answer ... we enjoy helping people to achieve.

[Simpson]

Too expensive probably. I mean when Dan Ko (or whoever) subsidises a frame for one of his "sponsored riders", he is probably still making money off the frame, even if he sells it for £150 or something. Whereas you might actually have to pay some skanky-looking lady to thrust against your bike...

Dan Ko is actually giving Chai his cast off custom frame (or so the impressions that i understood)

most sponser ship deals now are shit. no rider ever makes and money out these things, (with an exception to Ashton maybe) there usually ah you can have this inner tube for a whole pound less if you have this little sticker then someone goes of like "im sponsered ) im not jelous at all trust although it may sound that way. if someone sponsered me id just be like ok...... ride there stickers or whatever film there vids e.t.c. but there are so many people sponsered now not really much to talk about isit!!! lol

The answer ... we enjoy helping people to achieve.

HERE HERE

[Tony Harrison]

Hermance is mainly sponsored because his uncle(?) owns Koxx, Dominique(sp?).

No, Hermance is mainly sponsored because he is the best 26" trials rider in the World.

Yes, sponsorship isn't quite what it was in, say 1996. That was when the big companies would pay nice salaries to their riders. Companies such as GT, Giant, Scott, Cannondale and the like. Yes, we're seeing more of them producing (or trying to produce...) trials stuff now it's all taken off, but I think most people will have to be happy with a 'frame and parts for good videos' deal. Which I'm sure suits most people, as when they break stuff, they get it replaced.

I doubt many people will be making a living out of biketrials, so it's probably best getting a job too. Yes, it would be nice to be sponsored, but only if they provided stuff I wanted to ride. I've said this before, and no doubt I'll say it again, but I couldn't believe it when people binned Pace's, Koxx's and other decent trials frames to ride Base frames, just so they could say they were sponsored. I'd never ride for MAD either, but to be fair that was a bit different, as riders got pay and expenses and stuff, and the later frames were ok. But 400mm+ chainstays and a lycra skinsuit? Piss off...

My overall opinion is that the best person to ride for, if you can afford it, is yourself. Yes, not everybody can afford to buy the kit they want, especially the younger riders, but damn, check the bikes some of us older guys used to ride!! We really had to make do!

[SiTrials]

Ok I've Been around for a while and my veiw on sponsorship is.....

You Have to be a certain type of person, I believe you have to be willing to promote the company you ride for as well as input ideas to new products(main company sponsorship mostly, no bikeshops).

In my sponsorship you have to be able to entertain and educate JO PUBLIC, talk about the sport, again promoting along the way.

Be a natural rider, make things look easy, its all well and good going BIG and yes it looks f**king good to us but sometimes a wheely can look as good as a huge as drop gap to again your Average JO, these are things i've learnt alot over the last 3 years riding for MAD, you might not think its a good sponsor but I LOVE IT, (here comes "what MAD does for Trials" Rant) we educate people about OUR sport, we put on big events and competitions, and most the time often than not we get slack!

Anyway Riding with mr PORTER the other week and no way can i keep up, hes in his prime, young, dumb and full of cum! You might be one of the best riders in the UK this doesn't mean you should be sponsored.

after reading through i've said what most others did but i think i wanted defend myself, i'm not the best rider in the world and I KNOW IT! i think i'm very lucky to have what i have and am thankful!

BRING BACK THE DAYS OF ASHTON,HAWSEY,TONGUE,IAN whats his name from raliegh! i dreamnt of being in their positions and i kinda got there!

ALSO a LAST INPUT YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU RIDE!!!!

IF YOUR GOOD YOU CAN RIDE ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited January 23, 2006 by PoloTrials

[plainlazy84]

Who ever mentioned the internet hit the nail on the head imo. Trials Forum has changed the sport in many ways and the whole sponsorship issue is just one of them. Back in the days when TF didnt exsist, and before Trialskings and all that MBUK and the comp scene was the only real way of getting any exposure. Back then it was all about the Martins, Akrigg, the Tongues and Ian Cooper- the only ones that regularly appeared in the magazines. To the newbies like me they were gods, and even more so because they were the only ones in the spotlight unlike today where you can see tonnes of amazing riders- just a quick click on the Pics and Videos section and thats all it takes.

Couple that with the fact that every 16 year old kid seems to be launching a Trials company of some sort there are a lot of minor sponsorship deals out there to be had now. Its easy for them to get free publicity through videos on the forum, so it becomes easier and easier to pick up a basic deal. Just look at Viz (are they still around) I think at one point every other member on here was supposedly sponsored by them?!

it just isnt the same as it used to be.

[Luke Williams!]

Ok this is my view of the whole thing!

Sponsorship like many have said used to be "special" the people who where sponsered where legends and f**king rightly so. examples are the trials kings! These riders where sponsered for a reason they where loved by how many of us that ride today probably all, they showed the sport to the world and had that character about them that just sold things, also they where f**king good as in seriously good.

Faggots today get sponsored too easy, companies like heatsink an toxsin are prime examples, i'm not judging but this may be to lack of experience when it comes to running a company!

the forum hasnt helped at all yes its made trials alot mroe well known thats quality but it also has negative effects like people only comiing to the forum to find out about the sport and one way of advertising is to sponsor people well known on the forum etc.

also the group ride theory is true a company sponsor people who are pretty decent at riding but also someone who goes on alot of rides the more there products and names are seen the better i suppose!

you see before all these internet shops sponsorshiip came from the company itself so you had to be damn good as these companies knew what they where on about an looking for in a rider.

in my opinion the reason fro shit sponsorship etc is down to the unproffesionalism of the sport in the UK compared to france the UK trials scene is wank when it comes to such things as holding events etc. everything in the UK trials scene seems very unorganised and like a demo for some reason like NASS etc you watch the vidoes of them and they seem poor compared to a koxx days video etc!

Maybe if the UK companies get a hold of the sport truly an firmly and starts to organise the sport more proffesionally then maybe you will start to see real riders getting sponsored again untill then all you will get is shit riders being sponsored cause they go on more rides than others or bring out videos

[p_rew@theciderbar.na]

Don't worry lads full sponsorship probably isnt what its cracked up to be. Most people just get 40% off when they buy stuff from their local shop. The best Ive ever got was a free bottom bracket, which was crap and I never used it!

With trials associated companies you can only really hope for good discount, not money.

You see, theres no real money to be made from trials, as its just not a big enough sport with not enough people throwing loads of money at it, and so theres not really much that people can afford to give out. However, with something like motocross there are thousands more people involved, all pouring thousands and thousands per year into it. Because there are so many more people all willing to buy anything, along comes big name endorsements and TV coverage - all related to money once again. The trials population and the sports financial turn over would probably have to grow 10, maybe even 100 times before this enters the arena.

The only way of making big bucks in trials is to gain sponsorship from big businesses eg Red bull, animal - who are big because they are mainstream and did not start off as trials orientated, yet will get involved in extreme sports because this assocaition helps them sell products to people who want others to think that they are extreme and daring. Getting these deals that only happens if you have a big enough name, fit their image and can adequately expose their products.

Sorry, but thats the system we live in.

Therefore, you'd better get practising!....or work towards a profession that is more guaranteed.

[Luke Williams!]

Don't worry lads full sponsorship probably isnt what its cracked up to be. Most people just get 40% off when they buy stuff from their local shop. The best Ive ever got was a free bottom bracket, which was crap and I never used it!

With trials associated companies you can only really hope for good discount, not money.

You see, theres no real money to be made from trials, as its just not a big enough sport with not enough people throwing loads of money at it, and so theres not really much that people can afford to give out. However, with something like motocross there are thousands more people involved, all pouring thousands and thousands per year into it. Because there are so many more people all willing to buy anything, along comes big name endorsements and TV coverage - all related to money once again. The trials population and the sports financial turn over would probably have to grow 10, maybe even 100 times before this enters the arena.

The only way of making big bucks in trials is to gain sponsorship from big businesses eg Red bull, animal - who are big because they are mainstream and did not start off as trials orientated, yet will get involved in extreme sports because this assocaition helps them sell products to people who want others to think that they are extreme and daring. Getting these deals that only happens if you have a big enough name, fit their image and can adequately expose their products.

Sorry, but thats the system we live in.

Therefore, you'd better get practising!....or work towards a profession that is more guaranteed.

[Waynio]

i can "support" riders through the shop i work in but like most people are saying in here "THE" people OTHERS should be listening to, IE fletcxh and porter as they have had/got good sponsorship deals. its about what you can do for someone. NOT that you can jump off a clife and go WOOHOO i survived thats chancing it and playing luck.

i like to think that my sponsorship deal has been EARNT. last year i was HELPED by koxx uk, this year i have got a far better deal no money involved, but the thing is what i have been offered and what i get out of it helps me and will help me promote the sport and help young kids.

for example i live very close to "robbie peacock" and he is only 8years old, hes got sponsorship BECOS heis young enthusiastic and there is/was ONLY 1 young rider last year at the brits, hence he is a prospect for the future of trials. he is coming out with me more and more and i enjoy to see the progress such a young Trials enthusiast!!!!

from the other side someone like porter literally caught my eye last year when for the first time ever i met him on the roadtrip in bristol, he was funny, good to have a laugh with and was a very very different rider to your normal trials rider. he took a different approach to things. yes he may have been loud (not stupid loud in a bad way) and very sort of promotious!!! he was someone who stood out for me for what he can do and what he does. hence why i feel he will be one of THE next big names in trials. all he has to do is keep his composure as he does normally, the high life wont go to his head hes level headed and doesnt have a bad bone in his body.

"Support" and "Sponsorship" are getting mixed up in here which is hard for younger lads to understand, i have lads all the time asking if they can be sponsored by the shop i work in BUT for sponsorship they would need to do a hell of alot and BE quite a big player in things. support to start with will lead to bigger and better things if they feel they are getting out of it good things, if there not putting jack all in they wont get jack all out!!!!

Waynio...........................

very very very good topic dave!!!! Again dave to me stands out, hes an idiot and throws himself at owt and anything BUT he would be a rider that i would more class as a supported rider, rather than a "sponsored" rider. you just need to understand the difference between the 2.

i would like EVERY single rider to PROPERLY READ barbara wrights post in here the "cleanbikes" reply. that so means alot and explains why people do it. the end bit about the organisation is a big thing but look at the time and things that go into it. i spend some of my days off doing jack all!!! spending time marking out trials and helping in the respect barbara does, its fully voluntary BUT i dont ever see the people who are winging and whining about comps putting the effort into helping, all they have to do is turn up and ride? thats the easy part. me barbara, brian, john peacock,josh greenwood and tom feely and toms dad were up at the quarry in oakworth on friday freezing our T!TS off and soaked to death STILL having a good laugh and enjoying what we were dong purely cos we knew it would help others benefit to turning up to the trial on sunday

Edited January 24, 2006 by Waynio