Hope Pro 2 Trials Hubs

[Christophe']

I use a Shimano Deore.

Is that a good hub?

Dave

[PaulSection7]

paul at section7 i really do disagree with you. if you give a kid a hope hub and let him look inside it he would understand it, you give him a king and he wouldnt, it is WAY too complicated hence why the mechanism of it TO ME personally is SH!T,

I absolutely love the "I don't understand it so to me it's SH!T" attitude! I don't see why people think the inside of a King hub is such a complicated mechanism though. Is there a video of that cut away hub they used to have at the shows somewhere? Didn't Adam Read have some videos/pictures up somewhere describing it all a few years back?

I guess I'm biased towards King hubs as I've never had any problems with them in 6 years of usage, while the years prior to that I went through a good number of Ti Glides and Bulbs. Maybe I got lucky? I do think they are aimed at different markets though - they are twice the price of Hopes, they can be a bit sensitive to set up (never a problem on mine), and as you say, when they have problems they can be hard to fix.

I will wait to see how well these new Hope hubs stand up to some serious abuse. They've certainly been tested for a long time. The reason I am sceptical and don't really buy the "it'll be much stronger than Kings, trust me, I'm getting free kit off them!" lines is the mechanism is still fundamentally the same as those old Hope hubs I used to break. If it turns out they last then great, the next rear hub I buy for a trials bike will be a Hope one.

PS. I appreciate I've been out of the "hope hub loop" for some time now. And hell, I'm using a cheap as sh!t ACS freewheel at the moment )

[Waynio]

you see paul and chris after using them and you saying the "Pressure" side of it dont forget trials has more than one side of it, its not all about how much power you can throw through your hub sometimes you have to use technique and softer pedal strokes therefore a king if under LESS pressure or load slips???? i hope you agree with that cos thats how your saying one works, a king works on more pressure, therefore if you use no pressure your forked? your head is caved into shit on the pavement or a wall and your front line of teeth are owned by the council top drawer. BUT on the other hand it offers more pick up which to some people like tipsy jock he is saying IS FAR superior even though its totally got nothing to do with pick up, i can sidehop and gap adequetly for myself and im happy with what i can do, and i do it all or did it all on a 24ep hub????? wheres the issue????

in MY EXPERIENCE i will put it that i dont like to use chris king hubs as they are SH!T to me!!!! how i ride. my "technique" of riding incurs vicious pedaling sometimes and aggressive pedal strokes BUT sometimes it doesnt take all that aggressive pedaling it sometimes just takes a nice push to get going, but if the hubs slipping in those situations.........EXAMPLE sidehop from two wheels on to back wheel release pressure SLIPS!!!!then picks up, your in serious trouble if this is quite big, squashing fingers and chins can be quite nasty

i dont see why/where your getting that a pawl and spring design is shit? wots an ENO run off ;) i love it. its pawl and spring and runs off 72ep!!!! that is why i like pawl and spring so much my dear friends of the forum. i dont like the chris king design DUE to the rings interlocking therefore running on a "pressure" styled system. the only thing a pressure system runs better on nower days is CARS in the Common Rail Diesel injection system. cos it make cars STUPID fast (diesels) BUT for reliability, the OLD injection design is so much better, if a CRDI isnt working right EVERYTHING is to cock. as an old injection system is easier to fix and the problems are less rare, its purely that like in bikes, people want things to pick up fast the gear box to go faster and the car to accelerate quicker, therefore it may be a "BETTER" pick up design but is not the most reliable. i dont want this to be an arguement im just giving you my opinion on it and HOW things have worked with me.

Waynio............................

iv used profile hubs and they were GREAT apart from the internals not being strong enough the pawls and springs hence why hope took that design and made the pawls and springs stronger and stiffer to be better

PS paul i dont want to be saying these new pro2's ARE THE BEST hubs im saying that there extremly reliable and i would trust my life with them, but with kings i have lost the trust and faith in them for the system it runs on?????if you get me????

Edited January 24, 2006 by Waynio

[Dai the Socket]

the hub is awsum!!!!!

good engagement and WILL be out very soon.

TRUST me good things come to those who wait!!!! mine aint slipped and iv put mine through some serious pressure. i love it to bits, i was dubious but now iv used one and tried it i wont go to anything else and wouldnt like to go back to my trusty mono UNLESS i really had to. this HUB is THE hub for trials. SIMPLE!!!

Is Wayne sponsored by Hope?

[Waynio]

yes i am sponsored by hope???????? and your problem is????? i went to a manufacturer that i could TRUST their hubs????? hence why im with hope.

PS edit: im supported by hope...............not "SPONSORED" in a way cos they dont pay me, they give me their products for free.

oh and this bit i just realised summit:

I absolutely love the "I don't understand it so to me it's SH!T" attitude! I don't see why people think the inside of a King hub is such a complicated mechanism though. Is there a video of that cut away hub they used to have at the shows somewhere? Didn't Adam Read have some videos/pictures up somewhere describing it all a few years back?

i owned a chris king tool and many hubs so i can say what i said as i have had the experience even with the service side of it, i did understand it and did know what to do with it. yet i just think personally its too complicated for what it is. yes it saves weight yes it gain pick up but for me it lost out on the "Durability & Reliability" test

Waynio.............................

Edited January 24, 2006 by Waynio

[matthewholdsworth]

bored now

people like king, other prefer hope, good job we live in a democracy!

[Waynio]

its each to their own, the topic was about hope it did dither onto king a bit. but the hope pro 2 trials hub will be out soon kids

Waynio.........................

matt if you see ash ask him where my 8spd pro2 is please lol........i could do with it soon (ish)

[Stan Shaw]

Chris King hubs are NOT shit. If they were shit then why do the majority of trials riders use them? If you've used a king hub and not liked it then fair enough, thats your choice... but it doesn't mean they are all shit. I've seen alot more Hope hubs break, skip and blow up than king hubs, and im not saying Kings dont break either.

Also who cares where its made? Aslong it works im not to bothered..

The Hope Pro 2 Trials is looking good, fitted one to my bike yesterday and rode last night. Had no problems with it, you cant tell the difference between 48 and 72 engagments. Will be good to see if it dies after a few months, which is what really decides if a hub is good or not

Stan.

[Ash-Kennard]

its each to their own, the topic was about hope it did dither onto king a bit. but the hope pro 2 trials hub will be out soon kids

Waynio.........................

matt if you see ash ask him where my 8spd pro2 is please lol........i could do with it soon (ish)

didn't you garentee that they would be out before the new year?

[Dai the Socket]

yes i am sponsored by hope???????? and your problem is????? i went to a manufacturer that i could TRUST their hubs????? hence why im with hope.

I don't have a problem. I was just really curious to why you were pretty bias towards hope. More than anyone would be if they didn't have an incentive to push Hope on to people.

People like king. That's their opinion. The Hope Pro 2 will be out soon so it seems, but there's no need to big it up like it's better than sliced bread is there.

Just think it might be an idea to chill out with shoving your sponsor deals into people's faced so blatantly!

Chill out Wayne. Nothing personal and I'm not being a fanny! Just a subtle idea I know others have noticed it..

[manuel]

Well for me is always been hope and allways will be...

Im with wayne and ali c - who the fook needs 72 points ? I ride with a standard mono and i dont find it lacking....

everything about the hope is great ie super easy service, strong, awesome service when it goes wrong (notice when) and above all a very reasonable price - Kings are almost 3times the price!!!

anyway the only real thing wrong ive found with the previous hub is the axle / bearing design which meant the axle snapped causing the f/hub body to take out the ratchets but this looks to be fixed on the new ones..

also the ratchet diameter is much larger = stronger again and with offset pawls there is less "slap" nto lock of the sysem = super stong.

Plus think about this, this is a TRIALS hub not just an xc hub adopted by trials riders

[F-Stop Junkie]

Wayne, don't get me wrong, I don't think ring drive is The Answer. I've never owned one or used one in anger.

What I appreciate is the engineering simplicity and design. The pawl and ratchet design is very well proven, and Hope do it very, very well. I'm just glad there's an alternative which has a logical design advantage. I also enjoy a lively debate.

[TheMunn]

While reading this whole topic I have thought waynio to come across as a bit of a jerk, not meaning to offend you but I think your taking this all a little too far man. Every product is the same, provided they are well maintained and not exsessivly abused they will work, hope and king are exacly the same when you think, if its looked after and not totally wrecked it will work, simple. So whats the diff ?

Edited January 25, 2006 by TheMunn

[JIX]

Ok.

I have used both. I used to have a hope bulb. Used it for ages, then I started ripping through rachet rings every month. And I mean every month, I would have to send it back to hope for them to fit a new one. I would pay them £10 and postage of £8 as it was becoming so regular that no way in hell should hope have to pay. So this all got rediculous as you can imagine, off the bike for at least 5 days and then the cost.

So I got a king, not for the extra engagement, but for the strength and reliablility. If you get a second hand one then they are not that expensive.

What wayne was saying about softer pedal strokes is true, I keep finding that happening to me. example, when your nicely balanced for a sidehop, and you dont use full power it can slip 1 or 2.

These new ones have solved all the old problems of hope hubs, the axel flexing and pushing pawls into rachets, weak rachet rings, not deep enough rachet rings etc.

People who have kings will keep their kings. People who have hopes will keep their hopes, or maybe upgrade to this new one. If my king exploded into a million pieces then I would proberly go for this hub. But until then there is no need.

[Waynio]

Plus think about this, this is a TRIALS hub not just an xc hub adopted by trials riders

AMEN!!!! thats the bit i love most, a king is XC adapted to trials, the new hopes are TRIALS specific JUST LIKE THER TRIALS BRAKE boys and girls.

While reading this whole topic I have thought waynio to come across as a bit of a jerk, not meaning to offend you but I think your taking this all a little too far man. Every product is the same, provided they are well maintained and not exsessivly abused they will work, hope and king are exacly the same when you think, if its looked after and not totally wrecked it will work, simple. So whats the diff ?

your opinion on me is YOUR opinion. and i accept that, other peoples opinions most are different as most or some people know who i am and what im about,i like to try and sell something I KNOW works, not something that is going to put someone in danger. and kings put me/myself in danger hence why i dont use em, if i gave you a king and said go to the top of that 20ft cliffe and drop off it, just go to the edge slowly and no pressure on the hub you would die! and it could/would have been my fault for my advice hence why i aint going to do that. im not stupid enuff.

the 1st quote i put in this post is THE quote that EVERYONE should be reading. cos thats the mian part, people want parts designed for trials they get it yet the still complain about it. absolute bollox. its as if hope should not have bothered doing the trials brake and the trials hub cos XC riders are going to use em and downhillers. appreciate what hope have done here mate, cos if you dont they wont do it again will they? my opinion on these things i feel are much stronger than your because i have had problems with hubs and NOW this hub has overcome these problems i have given advice to the "younger" generation on here. you dont have to accept it but to some young lad sabing him £200 quid from a king to a hope is a big chunk of money im so sorry we aint all "Rich" or mummy and daddys boys/girls. i struggle to earn a living as it is as i spend alot of my money earnt on traveling the UK and the world. BUT as i have support from alot of suppliers i dont have to worry about my bike as much, if i didnt have this support i would be nakerd i couldnt afford to travel down to porthcawl/swindon/bristol/plymouth and such forth nearly every week could i?

if you dont like what i say buddy you dont have to listen but im here to give people good honest advice and not fill their heads with SH!T like some people on here do.

Waynio................................

i get kids come into our shop and ask whats different between a 2005 and 2006 t-pro as someone has said its well better specced on here!!!! LMFAO!!!!! and its the same...........apart from a "lighter colour"

[PaulSection7]

if i gave you a king and said go to the top of that 20ft cliffe and drop off it, just go to the edge slowly and no pressure on the hub you would die!

100% guaranteed it would slip?? What a load of rubbish! If it's slipping in this situation then the hub is buggered. Certainly the hubs are designed so the pressure on the ring drive plates increases with increased torque on the drive shell, but there's a nice spring in there to push those two plates together all the time. If the plates are slipping with low torque on the drive shell then this spring is not doing it's job or the ring drive plates are not meshing properly (too much of the wrong oil perhaps?). Either way, your hub is f--ked and needs to be fixed.

If what you claim is true for all King hubs then you'd be able to turn the freehub both ways by hand (so long as you didn't twist too hard) and lets face it, no one could possibly sell a hub that did that.

I'm sorry, this thread has moved away from the Hope hubs and is starting to miss the point, but I point blank refuse to accept that all King hubs slip if you pedal lightly on them and are therefore SHIT.

It's all a bit crazy really, because had people claimed:

"This hope hub is as durable as a King, nearly as light, but costs £200 less"

...then that's something you can't really argue with. The only doubt in that sentence is how durable they are and sooner or later we'll all find out for sure. Everyone looks forward to trying these new hubs out, hopefully they'll prove to be durable and hey presto, no one needs a £300 rear hub on a trials bike anymore.

Instead people say:

"This hope hub is a million times better than a King hub because as everyone knows King hubs are completely rubbish and always 100% of the time kill their users when they slip which they do 100% of the time when people pedal lightly on them"

Which many people, myself included, will argue against because it does not match their own experiences. And when this stuff is written by people with connections to Hope it just sounds like advertising bullshit to me.

For what it's worth (which is probably not at all) my 'honest' advice on trials hubs would be:

1. Kings are 2 to 3 times more expensive that this new Hope hub.

2. If you set Kings up incorrectly then they can skip very badly and dangerously.

3. If these new Hope hubs prove to be as or more durable than King hubs then there is no point spending 2-3 times as much on a King.

4. 48 vs 72 engagement points is not important enough to justify £200 extra, neither is a saving of a couple of tens of grams.

[Waynio]

LMAO!!!!

paul its only a commercial my friend........it was an example. it happened to me so i wouldnt like it to happen to someone else, yes that was exaggerated but your missing the point, its the likes of you that are blind as your balls have dropped on your head hence causing you to go a bit blind somewhere.

i was giving examples and some of the situations i had been in, other fellow trials users have been in these situations, it was only my opinion im sorry if you do not like my opinion but please get over it. its only a bit of writing on a forum for christ sake its not engraved into your forehead is it????

i had my opinion you have yours, i have had bad experiences aswell as good experiences but for TRIALS riding the pro2 T (which for some reason stands for TrIaLs) is designed for OUR use with us being a "Trials forum"

hope you dont want to kill me over my opinion or owt mate. but hey your entitled "each to their own" you disagree with me i disagree with you. just like i could name many other things with chris king hubs, and you have not obviosly used the new pro2 t hub have you? if you have i apologise but the pro2 has a really strong axle and such forth as its desinged for trials. king standard axles are pants, a wafer thin piece of alloy which then take 7-10 days to get a replacement sending it back to america. not for me mate.

Waynio..............................

like i say this is only my opinion on things after using literally every hub on the market

[PaulSection7]

This is getting a bit weird, but hey, lunch isn't quite over yet so I'll reply.

Everyone is entitled to opinions. The problem I have is when opinions start contradicting FACTS. I listed my opinions on Hope vs King above. Which one(s) of them do you disagree with?

Is it the one where I say not all King hubs are SHIT? Because if it is, then your 'opinion' is provably incorrect because at the very least, both my King hubs are pretty far from SHIT; in fact they're been 100% reliable from day 1, which was 6 years ago for one of them, 3 for the other.

Christ, it's not like I'm saying this new Hope hub is rubbish - in fact quite the opposite - it looks great! It's just that I'll wait and see how well it works in the great wild world of non-Hope supported riders before I buy one. My original doubts were that it's not massively different from the old hope hubs I used to kill very quickly.

Lunch over... back to work.

[Mark W]

AMEN!!!! thats the bit i love most, a king is XC adapted to trials, the new hopes are TRIALS specific JUST LIKE THER TRIALS BRAKE boys and girls.

Wouldn't exactly say the majority of Hope hubs people are actually using now that they're saying are amazing are "trials specific" hubs though, are they? Before you start shouting, I'm not saying the Pro2T isn't going to be good or anything, just that people are shouting down King for not being "Trials specific", when the Hopes they're currently using aren't "Trials specific" either?

[Dan Clark]

like i say this is only my opinion on things after using literally every hub on the market

So being sponsored by Hope has absolutely no effect on your opinion? So your not biased at all?

Dan.............

[F-Stop Junkie]

AMEN!!!! thats the bit i love most, a king is XC adapted to trials, the new hopes are TRIALS specific JUST LIKE THER TRIALS BRAKE boys and girls.

<pedantry> Point of order, arn't all mountain bike hubs (and BMX hubs, and anything that uses a freewheel) really adapted road hubs and freewheels?</Pedantry>

[street trials rider]

So being sponsored by Hope has absolutely no effect on your opinion? So your not biased at all?

Dan.............

PS edit: im supported by hope...............not "SPONSORED" in a way cos they dont pay me, they give me their products for free.

Waynio.............................

this topic has gone totally off the main post.... hopes have a excellent warrenty, no import taxes to pay (unlike CK ) my king did slip when i was dropping into half pipe from a sub-box, resulting in a fractured skull THROUGH my helmet, knocked out instantly for like 45mins, compressed spine, night in hospital, and a month off work my hope (when i had it) never slipped on anything major, just little things such as pedaling away form a junction, and even then that was rare

point of the fact is i'm debating selling off my king and buying a Pro2T when they become widely available

[Dan Clark]

Only the very very top riders (Hermance, Coustelliers etc) get paid to ride for people, most sponsored people don't even get stuff for free, they just get it heavily reduced.

Trust me, Waynio more than counts for being sponsored.

Dan.........

[flipkickbs]

All hubs used in trials so far have all been faulted by riders, Hope (if the hub is as good as they say) have the potential to really revolutionize trials bikes with a hub that riders can be 100% confident in, because lets be honest, the first time your hub cracks or slips, a lot of confidence is lost in it, and when riding its always in the back of your mind (second to the chain snap obviously )

The amount of testing that has gone into this should guarantee an above parr hub compared to others which would not have been so rigorously tested. Hopefully the pro 2's testing has covered almost every eventuality and they have improved it to deal with them.

My hope mono has slipped slighty before, and admittedly i don't completely trust it, but i accept it happening because it is not designed for primarily for trials use.

As for the ridiculous king/ pro 2 arguments, i would say the same as comparing any components. If you trust it and have personally had no problems with it then keep on riding it! obviously the kings are technically the superior hub at the moment, but they are NOT built for trials, as a few unlucky people have proven, but are non the less excellent hubs which compared to my mono, i would have no trouble running.

Can't wait for the pro 2 just too see what all this waiting has been about!

Thanks

Ian

[JT!]

I can't really see why eveyones talking about a hub that han't even really come out yet. I mean some people hate maguras becuase they leak all the time, and some love them becuase they are 'fit and forget'.

I don't think they have been widely tested enough to make any real comments yet.

Anyway, i don't know how hubs work. I only know how a freewheel works. From what i'v read kings work different to hopes. (If anyone would care to explain how they both work it's be much apriciated). As i understand kings become stronger when more pressure is applied. So really that isn't much good for trials at all, becuase it's the only bike sport that really relies on conroll thought the drivetrain. In MTB'ing / XC your constantly applying good pressure, and even if it does skip it dosn't really matter. In trials, as said befor, you could die if your hub skips in the wrong time / place.

So if the hope hub takes all this into consideration (by which it sounds it has) should be better than the king.

Anyway, just remeber that it hasn't been widely tested yet. Giving it to a dozen people it a good way of testing, but the real test comes when hundres of people are using them.

Edited January 25, 2006 by JT!