011001000110010101110010 Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Yes, they use the same internals at the BMX hubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiTrials Posted January 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 (edited) Doh and now i've just bought a new bulb Cheapish on ebay (brand new aswell!) oh well that'll do had no problem tillrecently with my old one which i've had 3years! got it just after i broke my king got that fixed and sold it straight away!!! i'm sticking with Hope from now on!and before you ask why i'm buying parts its because, Hope don't give us shit so, hey i like HOPE! Edited January 23, 2006 by PoloTrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Yes, they use the same internals at the BMX hubs.yes but they all die. on a stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 i have used more hubs on the british market than most(not in a bragging way cos its nowt to be proud of, BUT if im still alive its purely down to me switching from king hubs to Hope!!!)................chris kings are SH!T (when they slip and play up!!!) and i have proof of that. its a system that is too complicated for people on here. you wouldnt understand the way a king worked, half of the people on here. the only people that will, will be the people WHO have literally had the bearing out of a king hub which will be people with tools or a very large hammer and flat blade screw driver. look good and sound good BUT way over priced and shit when they slip aint good. id rather use sumot that when it pulls to pieces i can see wots going on and find the problem and not need a frigging machine like an ECU bloody computer to tell me wots wrong. a bit like what u need if you have got a chris king (that last sentence was sarcastic for those who may take it serious)trust me, i have put hubs and wheels through more use than ANYONE!!!! and the hope hubs have been the best iv used just the new one is sooooooooo much more improved than the last one.take it easy kiddies and stay "Hub" safe and wise. yes chris kings are good when there working when there not your risking life and limb if your going "BIG" just wait till the likes of damon watson are going big and they start slipping and near killing him and for anyone else who uses them and goes big. the hubs are designed for XC and DH use not trials. but you take the hub to bits your relying on a spring type mechanism and a coil to engage and when it doesnt work you loose FULL rotations of pedals, sometimes only 3,4 pick up points but its enuff to make you think. "Do i want a life to live?" and i do/did and still do hence why i dont use em.Waynio........................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011001000110010101110010 Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 yes but they all die. on a stockHow many do you know that have done that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 I just found the hope to be much more "confident" in its engagment, you could kinda feel it though the bike clicking in....gives a really confidence inspireing feel.Couldnt tell the difference in engagments from my kingLighter, I know the pro 2 is....not sure about the trials one....a kink with hd axle and funn bolts does add up.BRITTISH made!!!the best customer service EVER!dishless wheel...and room for 6 gears for comps or singlespeed...PERFECT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewholdsworth Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 didnt damon watson destroy one of those echo 72ep hubs in about a week???my pro 2t has skipped once in 6 months!i'd use hope over king £120 for a rear hub as opposed to silly money for a king. makes monetary sense, if u break the hope, u can buy another and still have change from what u would spend on some kings. but that wont happen because hope'll fix it for u. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulSection7 Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 the design in my oppinion, being an enginner myself and having helped hope develop this new hub, is stronger than a king design, the springs are amazingly stiff, if you dont believe me, just ask waynio , ali c or matt holdsworth what they all think of the pro 2............. the ratchet design will be proven over time.......Correct me if I'm wrong, but these new Hope hubs are still 'just' a ratchet system. They might have nice strong springs, hard materials used in all the right places and so on, but a ratchet system is still a compromise between the number of engagement points and durability (more engagements == less durability in general, unless you go doubling up ratchets and so on).The King mechanism is fundermentally different (and how it works is hardly rocket science). It's not subject to the same limitations as a ratchet - it has more engagements and has proven to be more durable than pretty much all the hubs on the market at the moment, and has been since the late 90s.Absolute torque strength, ie torque it up on a machine until it explodes (which I assume you're talking about Ash) is only half the picture. Ratchets are great at this sort of thing, but what really counts is how the mechanism behaves with many sharp applications of torque, like someone stamping on the pedals doing gaps for example. This is where stress fractures and so on occur in pawls, ratchets and so on and these are what kill normal hubs.Don't get me wrong, I'm sure these Pro 2 hubs are great (and I'll probably get some for my XC bike) but I think I'll hold on to my Kings for a while on the trials bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmike Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 ...it has been proven when we did the torque testing on a king hub against the pro 2 t and pro 2 model hubs......and having helped hope develop this new hub, is stronger than a king design......and which has better customer service...Without trying to cause any kind of argument at all, what were the results of the torque tests? What Nm did Hope get up to through each hub, and what were the conclusive results of each? And although hopes customer service can't be faulted, it has to be said, neither can King's, everything I've ever sent back to them (none of the king parts I've used, just one's people have sent to me which have either been abused, or just the standard axles ) have had no problem with warranty. King had replaced and serviced everything which was necessary, even if it had been misused or not taken care of well, with good faith, and always sent them back (across the chanel!) for free... And as far as environmental and social aspects go, they're probably better than any other bike company: http://chrisking.com/pucks/page3.html I'd love to see hope be able to promote things like that.I know hope have been fairly inconsistant with their customer service, whilst almost always positive, sometimes postage has been charged, sometimes not, and have been (including myself) been charged for parts, which is pretty unknown to king...Anyways, the new Hope hub is sounding to be pretty good, will be interesting once it's been released. Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 How many do you know that have done that?simons, hobbsies , seans and there was another i've seen too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 I'd be put off simply because of the arrogance in this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krisboats Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 How many do you know that have done that?I've seen the main hub shell of one snap comepletely. I think it may have been todge's but i'm not too sure.I think i will be upgrading my hope xc to one of these bad boys when they are released. I've seen too many kings skip for me to invest in one of those, sure they may look nice but they don't seem reliable enough for me.I think we are never going to get rid of this debate with a single new hub though. There will always be some people who like one type of product and some people who will like another, personal preference. At the end of the day you can't please everybody no matter how hard you try because some people will just not like something. Marmite is a great example of this, you either hate it or you love it.Then again, some people are just too stubborn to admit that their hub might now be inferior or out of fashion because they might not be able to afford the latest and better product, unlike some of the rich kids who just ask mummy and daddy for it and get it the next working day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 paul at section7 i really do disagree with you. if you give a kid a hope hub and let him look inside it he would understand it, you give him a king and he wouldnt, it is WAY too complicated hence why the mechanism of it TO ME personally is SH!T, the torque and pressure thing is absolute none sense i seriously wil say now, i was severly P!SSED off when my king slipped all the time, cos people said oh they never slip blah blah blah. when they do they cause controvosy!!!!its like this:old skool car that every man and his dog can fix BY HAND!!!! thats a hope hub.a chris king hub is like new gen cars with computers literally dont even bother thinking about trying to fix it yourself cos to some its just TOO complicated inside.thats how i would put it about. for people who want to be biased like me (cos im soooooooooo that character,NOT iv had the experience with literally all hubs, and id go back to hope ALL day long, purely for their durability and them not slipping.and causing near death experiences)it would be nice if someone could walk upto me and personally say your completly wrong my chris king has never EVER slipped and is the simplest design EVER and anyone can easily see how it works and service friendly?????you can hear every engagement point of a hope hub literally at all times. if a king is going to slip you never know when it is going to do it,cos you cannot hear the hub properly. but like i say i may be being biased BUT iv had the experience with most hubs on the market and i have found in my experiences that hope simply are the best for me or to my liking. i wont the british championships last year on hubs that had 24ep??? so what big wow, but because i have the confidence in my bike,hubs etc etc i find i can ride at things more confidently. each to their own though Waynio............................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulltrialser Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 didnt damon watson destroy one of those echo 72ep hubs in about a week???yep and now has a king and no fault yet touch wood as he does go sick big.also are we looking at around another 6weeks for the hope hub or is it nearly there?Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 it would be nice if someone could walk upto me and personally say your completly wrong my chris king has never EVER slipped and is the simplest design EVER and anyone can easily see how it works and service friendly?????Wayne, if I was there, I'd say you're wrong, with a couple of points...I have never owned a King, or indeed ridden on one, and I'm aware they seem to have a period of bedding in then - once tightened - they're fine.I also have three bikes, all equipped with Hope hubs front and rear. I love 'em.The ring drive mechanism is incredibly simple, with two toothed rings which mesh together. The harder you press on the pedals, the harder the two rings mesh, so at peak chain loadings (i.e. when you're doing a pedal kick or something) the drive mechanism is tightly meshed, with the load spread over many, many teeth.With a conventional pawl + ratchet system, you have one part trying to move one way, and a small piece of metal (maybe two or four) trying to stop it. It's the difference between trying to hold something up with one finger instead of ten.When you pull a king apart, I can imagine it being a mess of springs and plates, with a special tool needed to tighten it. That said, if you see a cutaway hub with the system in place and working, it suddenly becomes so simple.The pawl + ratchet system has been refined on many, many bikes over many, many years and is incredibly strong, but trials puts very specific loadings on a hub. I'm not saying ring drive is the answer, but it's a mechanically excellent solution to the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotchDave Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) The thing about a king hub is that if it gets a wee bit of crap on the ringdrive yer fecked.Also chirs you've forgotten the most important part of the ring drive system, the helical spline that locks the 2 drive plates together. Edited January 24, 2006 by div Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 The thing about a king hub is that if it gets a wee bit of crap on the ringdrive yer fecked.Also cheis you've forgotten the most important part of the ring drive system, the helical drive that locks the 2 drive plates together.Yup, you're right. I don't deal with them on a day to day basis so I'm not completely au fait with them.Surely a pawl and ratchet would be rubbish if a bit of grit got into your freehub? Though it's more resistant to mud and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotchDave Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Not really, in a king if it gets between the drive rings it will seriously impair the engagement, because the teeth on the driverings are so shallow, but in a ratcher n pawl mechanism is will at most interfere with one pawl and then most likely not to a great extent.Imagine a 1mm diameter piece of grit between ringdrive plates, go to bromleybikes for a picture of plates, it will cause serious bother, the same piece of grit in a ratchet and pawl system will cause very little bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave85 Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Its pretty difficult for muck to get into a king, particularly big bits which would have to pass 2 bearing shields and a seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmt_oli Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I have had 8 different hope hubs on various bikes, and only once had a problem (which was apparent when i purchased the hub 2nd hand) and hope fixed it no questions asked.I also now have a king rear hub, and can safely say its a solid piece of engineering and i trust it, because i do understand how it works, i do service it, and do check its tight. its never skipped with me riding it, however the previous owner sold it after one(and only one) slip, but it was a full rotation- it was probably just loose.The king hub drive is superior in my opinion, but thats not to say i think the hope is crap, ive never broken one.I think they are both good quality, and have great customer service. hope have a more industrial feel, typical of british made products, and kings have a more pro refined feel, typical of american products.I do think that this hope hub will be a better buy, due to the price difference.just my opinion in the hope vs. king war we have here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 It's pretty hard for it to get into a Hope freehub too )How often does crap get in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipsy Jock Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) Can't see this arguement ending anytime soon One thing everyone has missed so far is the engagements, i'd rather have 72 over 48 anyday, Although some will argue it doesn't make a difference, just preload yada yada yada.Off topic, just had a look at Bromley bikes webby to see what the insides look like. 360 for a singlespeed hub!!!! ahahahaha! Thats a full 130 more than i paid lol. anyways back to Hope, errmmm hubs look good. Edited January 24, 2006 by tipsy Jock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 i'd rather have 72 over 48 anydayI would ague that it doesnt make any difference well, I couldnt tell between the two engagment wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipsy Jock Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I would ague that it doesnt make any difference well, I couldnt tell between the two engagment wise.Thats cause you're a decent rider, unlike moi I need all the help i can get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 happy birthday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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