Sueing Companies

[DeeZee]

I don't think bike companies give any guarantee to the performance of thier bikes, but I guess you could have the company you purchased it on for being "Suitable for the purpose for which it was sold"

Bikes sold for leisure must meet the BS 6102 standards, so if it failed on that, you might have a case. But it could be reasonably argued that you are aware of the dangers of the sport you undetake, and failed to take suitable precautions to avoid injury..... I mean, how many people do you see on videos without helmets.

I know pretty much every bike I've had for XC (Marin's / GT's) come with a maintenance manual, and you would have to prove the bike was well maintained and serviced by a compotent person, before the bike company was liable.

[Rob Thomson]

kids eh or whatever he is,

sounds like a charming character...

Thing is he's in his 20's....Maybe more...

f**k knows what goes on in that mans head...

I particularly liked the helium filled EVERYTHING!

[Brian Bleech]

i am going to sue the council for building a wall for me to fall off on....

[Waynio]

Why the F**K would you wanna sue a company? specially a trials company???? i never have even considered it. its the stupidest idea EVER.

Waynio...........................

i have much more respect for companies than trying to take them to the dry cleaners over a problem that was more than likely due to misuse or abuse.................

[benno]

In reply to Wayne, wasn't there talk of Ashton sueing Deng or the Coustelliers at some point because they stole the 'spine' seat-tube idea? Guess he didn't patent it or something, it must be a bitch to get something like that patented though.

That's a very special case though, I'd never sue a company because a part broke on me, unless it burst into flames or something ridiculous.

[Waynio]

thats differe,t though isnt it surely? sueing someone cos the "Copied" something is different ALOT different to someone falling off their bike and sueing someone OR a bike failing on someone cos the bike snapped and they smashed their head in? its in theory to me the riders fault as they have put themselvces and their bike in that situation. maybe im wrong but i see it from both sides i work in the cycle trade and get to see things from customers views as i am a customer obviosly to many other shops and i see it from a trade/sales point of view due to me selling things etc etc. im not going to have a biased opinion EVEN if i didnt work in the cycle trade a bit of thought and intiative would make people see why they should or shudnt sue people.

only my thoughts though.

Waynio..........................

i hope i dont seem like im having a go at people i just want people to understand it from "both" sides of a story instead of people only seeing one way.

[ogre]

i dont mean like you falling off your bike, i mean like if a part died (i.e a maggura exploding)

[Waynio]

well.........nowt would go wrong!!!!there proven to be strong enough, but if you look at the problem after the incident u would see or find something that may make it look as though you mayt have caught or snagged something to cause the problem......

Waynio.....................

[ogre]

But what if it wasn;t your fault, by freak of nature the cylinder was poorley made and it cracked how bout then?

[Jez]

But what if it wasn;t your fault, by freak of nature the cylinder was poorley made and it cracked how bout then?

Look at most of the small print, and you'll see that almost all (yes, including trials bikes, all the frames and bikes I've had have had this) bikes & components have a disclaimer that says something to the effect of 'not designed for extreme street/off-road use' - even though it *blatantly* is. Therefore, it's always gonna be difficult to sue someone for bike failure while riding trials. Sure, if your chain fails just as you're crossing the road and you get hit by a passing rocket-propelled tank, then I'm sure you could sue for that, but trials? Forget it.

Waynio's right though; you do trials, you expect stuff to break and you expect to fall off, and to sue for that would be ridiculous. For me to sue a company it would have to a) be a MAJOR (like, life-changing) injury, and UNDOUBTEDLY the manufacturer's fault (e.g. a manufacturing defect). If a Magura hose failed while I was attempting a huge drop and I broke my arm, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. I'd probably be more pissed that a) I didn't make the drop and that I wouldn't be able to ride for a while. I certainly wouldn't be thinking 'someone needs to pay for this!'

'Sh!t happens' has always been my motto. If there's nothing you can do about it, don't worry about it, let it happen, get over it, then get on with life. Stick to that and you save yourself an immense amount of grief. </wisdom>

Edited January 13, 2006 by Jez

[Mark W]

Saying that Jez, a few skateparks have been closed down 'cos people took 'emselves down and did a "no win no fee" lawyer thing and got the skateparks sued for being too dangerous. Think some blader went down and broke their leg which closed a pretty well-known park. Can't remember the name now - either way, reason #53 that fruit-booting isn't legit

[Waynio]

to me those people who do it on purpose serve one word in my brain? "ARSEHOLES!!!!"

got nowt better to do than try get some money for free as they cant be arsed working for it. that stinks and personally jez i like your reply well played.

its just there are people here "only seeing" the customers point of view, please consider both sides of the equation!!!! not just for your own personal interest. you will get further in life if you look at both sides instead of a biased one side.

Waynio.............................

[Loosemoose`]

I'm glad my uni is that much simpler than a normal trials bike, I'd have to have my life in the hands of a complex mechanical device like a brake (yeah ok, aeroplanes, cars etc, etc I know). Give me direct drive and a splined hub any day, at least the only things that go are seatposts and the odd crank.

Loose.

[mat hudson]

Saying that Jez, a few skateparks have been closed down 'cos people took 'emselves down and did a "no win no fee" lawyer thing and got the skateparks sued for being too dangerous. Think some blader went down and broke their leg which closed a pretty well-known park. Can't remember the name now - either way, reason #53 that fruit-booting isn't legit

wasnt that why cardiff park closed down, wankers

[Tony Harrison]

Mark, I was just going to post about the skateparks. These "no win no fee" claims will cripple everything. My dad does motorbike trials, and some have been cancelled because the clubs can't afford the insurance. And yes, those skateparks have been closed, because some kid falls on his head and sues.

The problem here is people will not accept responsibility for their actions. Whether you fell off your bike, jumped in front of a bus or burnt yourself on hot Maccy D's coffee, YOU MADE THE DECISION.

Where does this money come from?? I just don't get it. We all suffer in the end, because prices get whacked up, events are cancelled and so forth. I mean, how much is insurance to run a bike comp indoors?? Bet it's stupid money, because you can guarantee some malcoordinated twat will fall off and sue. Not because it was somebody else's fault, but because he can make a quick packet doing so.

[Waynio]

AMEN!!!! ^^^^^^^^

its arseholes like you describe snappel that dont deserve the pleasure of being able to ride in our competitions or take part in events etc etc.

if you look at how many times trials people have been sued its very little? BUT with these new KNOOOOOOOOOBS going round saying "have you had a fall or been injured in the last 2/3 years blah blah forking blah" they are making it hard for people to say no, BUT its the people saying yes i have and the ££££ signs popping up in front of their eyes that cant stop the GREED getting the better of them

Waynio...........................

It sucks.......soon no one will want to take the responsibility of "events" in any sport as there will always be the "village idiot" wanting to make some money.

[Clarky]

AMEN!!!! ^^^^^^^^

its arseholes like you describe snappel that dont deserve the pleasure of being able to ride in our competitions or take part in events etc etc.

if you look at how many times trials people have been sued its very little? BUT with these new KNOOOOOOOOOBS going round saying "have you had a fall or been injured in the last 2/3 years blah blah forking blah" they are making it hard for people to say no, BUT its the people saying yes i have and the ££££ signs popping up in front of their eyes that cant stop the GREED getting the better of them

Waynio...........................

It sucks.......soon no one will want to take the responsibility of "events" in any sport as there will always be the "village idiot" wanting to make some money.

Well said.

Clarky

[i_rule_the_world]

read the small prints from most bike companies, parts are made to beused and state this is not to be used for stunt purposes or something. if it is this is risky and cause yourself health damages.

remember the classic under the onza mini seat, " Do not use this bike for tricks/stunts, if you do we hold no resonsibilty foir your actions etc etc..."

There is small print for every bike part for sure like this, so the companies want you to ride safley and wear lots of reflective stuff and stick to both wheels on the ground. this is so that cant be suuued

[TrashZen]

Mark, I was just going to post about the skateparks. These "no win no fee" claims will cripple everything. My dad does motorbike trials, and some have been cancelled because the clubs can't afford the insurance. And yes, those skateparks have been closed, because some kid falls on his head and sues.

The problem here is people will not accept responsibility for their actions. Whether you fell off your bike, jumped in front of a bus or burnt yourself on hot Maccy D's coffee, YOU MADE THE DECISION.

Where does this money come from?? I just don't get it. We all suffer in the end, because prices get whacked up, events are cancelled and so forth. I mean, how much is insurance to run a bike comp indoors?? Bet it's stupid money, because you can guarantee some malcoordinated twat will fall off and sue. Not because it was somebody else's fault, but because he can make a quick packet doing so.

That's bloody annoying . Right, people simply want to be assisted all the way, all along their lives.. and whenever something upsets them (like an accident), they want to blame someone else. Result= more and more safety policies (designed for your own good or to ward off the sucking minority of profesionnal suers), become more an obstacle to freedom than an actual encouragement to be more responsible.

Instead of telling you, behave in a responsible manner, the overall message becomes, No you can't do this 'cause we are responsible for your health. Once I was told off by a sea-side playground guard (mikey mouse kid park), because I was riding some rocks on the sea-side.

No you can't do this here mate! he goes

Why not? I am 200m from your playground, not even on the beach.

'cause if something happens to you I would be responsible...

Yeah right, these rocks were public domain, not some private premises.

He wanted me to ride just off the other side of the cape, so that he would turn a blind eye to any accident.

Then I reckon he was the irresponsible one.

Another time, the coast guards came over , shouting in their loudspeakers that I should not ride on the rocks...

[F-Stop Junkie]

The problem here is people will not accept responsibility for their actions. Whether you fell off your bike, jumped in front of a bus or burnt yourself on hot Maccy D's coffee, YOU MADE THE DECISION.

Not leaping to anyone's defence here, but the MacDonalds coffee case is taken slightly out of context. It's not that the coffee was hot that caused the lawsuit, it was that it was excessively hot - to the point of causing serious injury, not just minor burns.

The issue with all these personal injury claims is neglegence, and you can not absolve yourself from neglegence. A shop can not have you sign a waiver saying that you won't sue them, then not tighten stem bolts and skewers properly.

You would struggle to have a claim against any company which supplied a part which failed - be it trials, cars, motorcycles - because the part is often damaged in any accident, and it's often difficult to prove that the part has not been used inappropriately, or damaged in someway accidentally or otherwise.

If you had a part that was inherently faulty - say a magura piston casting with an air bubble in it - and was untouched on the outside, then you could have a case against the manufacturer. However, you can only claim for injury and suitable damages. Say you get £50 a week, and you break your arm and can't work for a month, then you're entitled to £200. You won't get £10,000 or whatever...

You also can't claim for what could have happened. If you stop at some traffic lights, and your piston splits in two, you can't say that you could have been brain damaged or whatever.

If a frame is shipped with a weld missing - for example - and a rider falls and injurys themselves so much that they require care for the rest of their life, isn't it right that they should be compensated for it?

[Tony Harrison]

On the coffee thing Chris, whether it's excessively hot or not, most coffee you get from cafes, etc, is hot enough to burn. You can tell when you pick the thing up it's damn hot, or did the idiot use a straw, because it doesn't say anywhere not to...

It is funny when they go on Watchdog because they get stung. They fall over in their garden being clumbsy and thick and break their ankle. Then they make a claim, and get billed for a few grand because the fees far outweighed the compo!! Serves them right...

[F-Stop Junkie]

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from sympathetic for people who claim for tiny little accidents, but it's easy to take things at face value. Woman claim coffee is too hot is different to woman sues MacDonalds because coffee is so hot she gets first degree burns and spends several days in hospital because coffee was 150 degrees.

People who take the piss do make things harder not just for genuine cases, but also for everyone else as insurance premiums go up, companies spend money doing stupid little things for fear of getting sued, etc...