durkie Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Alright, so I've been working for over a year on getting some details straight in producing trials rims plasma coated with a hard, abrasive material. The primary goal in doing these coatings is to eliminate the need for grinding, and allow for braking that is at least as good as a grind, without some of the maintenance issues and destructive nature of grinding. Below are some pictures of pad compounds and the coating (with larger pictures in my gallery and more specific pictures available upon request.)Pad compounds tested so far (17 and counting):Coating pictures (somewhat worn/dusty):(relatively fresh)Projected price per rim is around US$100-$120, and projected price per pair of brake pads is probably around US$10-$15 or lower. I plan on selling new trials rims (DX32, try-all fatty, new echo, etc) precoated so that you don't have to fuss with shipping a wheel and waiting for it to return. Everything still needs a little more testing, and I don't think it's quite ready for primetime, but it's getting really close.The the big X factor remaining knowing when they'll be ready is that I can't get much input on these rim coatings without sending them out to people, and I can't send them out to people without a decent financial investment per rim. What I'd like then is input on what you think are important aspects to maximize. Coating grit and pad compound allow a lot of variety in performance, and things like overall brake maintenance, coating lifetime, pad lifetime, brake modulation, and brake lockup are all mutable.So what would you like to see? As an example, coating/pad combinations can be produced that produce incredible lockup, but the coating and pad both wear faster than normal - so the wheel would probably perform at its best as a competition-only wheel, and pads would need replacement after every few competitons. The worn coating would still function very well, but would not have quite the complete lockup under almost any condition.Or I could produce something with harshness similar to a grind that works with already-existing pads, and you would simply not have to worry about grinding anymore.Or I could produce something in between, with the pads and coating producing something that can't save your butt in all conditions and all slightly-missed moves, but still works better than a grind (similar to the worn "competition-only" coating).In general, the custom pads I've produced have worn faster than normal pads with a grind, but their being cheaper than normal pads should help offset that. Pad compound can also be varied to produce little dust, so that the only adjustment necessary as the pads wear is with the TPA or slave cylinder adjustment. Or they can be produced to wear in a fine dust, causing reduced pad wear and allowing the dust to pack in to the coating and make it less harsh, meaning more brake modulation as desired. The dust can be easily brushed off with an old toothbrush, although that is more maintenance...As it is, the two pad/coating examples I listed above are the two options I'm thinking people would want most. What do you think? Am I missing something big? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 I would be interested in somthing like this, deffo for comps as I have a comp only wheel and it would be ace not to have to worry aboutgriding before a comp (or even grind wearing down in a comp)If it worked then I would have a slighltly less harsh one for everyday use.always nice to have an option though, nice one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan6061 Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 At a guess, I'd say Koxx Blox browns would work well on that as they have a hard compound, and work really well on harsh grinds. And they last fookin ages. Seems a good idea to me, I like it Just remember to keep us updated (which I'm sure you will) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotchDave Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Is plasma coating something local engineers could do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Smith Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Is plasma coating something local engineers could do? not really its quite a specialised trade, we have it at work, and i did think about getting my rim done, but never really took the idea further than a thought............ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTTY___ Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 (edited) It looks and sounds really good nice to see how it works out... plus i think that the comp scene might be alittle more interested Scotty Edited January 1, 2006 by Echo_Scotty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krisboats Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 The only problem that i can see is that the $100-120 price tag per rim may put off a lot of people, because it would be so much cheaper to go to B&Q and buy a cheap grinder.If the cost could be lowered i reckon that there would be loads more people interested in it, me included! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotchDave Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 (edited) not really its quite a specialised trade, we have it at work, and i did think about getting my rim done, but never really took the idea further than a thought............ashYou work at hope right?, how does it work? and what would it cost?EDITAfter having had a word with Edd Potts I retract all questions except the one about if you guys at Rolls could do it for me with ceramic? Edited January 1, 2006 by div Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Clark Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 So it's pretty much exactly the same as the coating that Plazmatic used to offer which never really took off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Smith Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 You work at hope right?, how does it work? and what would it cost?EDITAfter having had a word with Edd Potts I retract all questions except the one about if you guys at Rolls could do it for me with ceramic?no i just test ride for hope, i actually work for rolls royce, i was wondering how you knew i work there? lol.....me and ali c have been talking about this today, we are going to get an old rim plasma coated sometime quite soon to see if it works, the way it works is quite simple, it is applies as a molten spray which bonds to the material i.e. the rim, however my first concern with plasma coating a rim is that the temperature it is applied at (which at the moment i am unsure of til later this week) may damage the properties of the aluminium rim, as far as cost is concerned, i could potentially pass it off as a 'foreigner' as they are known to us at rolls. but i dont think i would be able to get too many rims coated without getting a stern telling off! lol i am back at work on tuesady and my first port of call will be the design office to find information out about this, when i know more i will post back upas far as a ceramic rim is concerned, ar'nt they already supposed to be better for braking?ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave85 Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 One of my data books gives typical part temperatures of 200F, which should do bugger all to the temper of the rim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Smith Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 the coating we use at rolls though is not meant for aluminium its for titaniumanyway as i said i will find out this weekash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotchDave Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 no i just test ride for hope, i actually work for rolls royce, i was wondering how you knew i work there? lol.....me and ali c have been talking about this today, we are going to get an old rim plasma coated sometime quite soon to see if it works, the way it works is quite simple, it is applies as a molten spray which bonds to the material i.e. the rim, however my first concern with plasma coating a rim is that the temperature it is applied at (which at the moment i am unsure of til later this week) may damage the properties of the aluminium rim, as far as cost is concerned, i could potentially pass it off as a 'foreigner' as they are known to us at rolls. but i dont think i would be able to get too many rims coated without getting a stern telling off! lol i am back at work on tuesady and my first port of call will be the design office to find information out about this, when i know more i will post back upas far as a ceramic rim is concerned, ar'nt they already supposed to be better for braking?ashEdd told me you work for Rolls. It's more that I'd want to coat a normal rim (echo 06 for example) with ceramic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanie-b Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Plazmatic coating always seemed like a good idea to me Some people on OTN reported the coating physically getting smoothed out by koxx bloxx after a period of time.Good projectHope it goes well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durkie Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 QUOTE(deanie-b @ Jan 1 2006, 04:10 PM) ←Plazmatic coating always seemed like a good idea to me Some people on OTN reported the coating physically getting smoothed out by koxx bloxx after a period of time.Good projectHope it goes well for you.i could definitely see this happening. in using harder compound (95A) pads, noticeable wear can set in earlier. however, currently i'm using some 80A pads that are pretty soft, and they work really well, don't wear too fast, and likely put less burden on the coating as well.also, just to clarify, the US$100-$120 is the cost for a new rim with coating, not just the coating process itself. my plan is to sell wheels precoated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanie-b Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 (edited) i could definitely see this happening. in using harder compound (95A) pads, noticeable wear can set in earlier. however, currently i'm using some 80A pads that are pretty soft, and they work really well, don't wear too fast, and likely put less burden on the coating as well.also, just to clarify, the US$100-$120 is the cost for a new rim with coating, not just the coating process itself. my plan is to sell wheels precoated.Good call , But maybe when buisness is booming (i'm sure it will be ) It might be a good idea to start doing rims that people send to you. Edited January 2, 2006 by deanie-b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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