Mark W Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Well, seeing how cheap 05 Pythons are on Selectbikes, then take Zip out of the equation, real Pythons are U6, have a more dent resistant downtube 'cos the Zips appear to have a downtube identical to the T-Mag 05's, How many times, Sponge (Y) I'm yet to dent my Zip, and it's taken a fair few knocks. 1600g and 1800g approx for YZ and CLS, whilst Zona Zips are around 2100g but then again they have bashplate mounts... And those huge drop-outs, although I thought the polished Zips were lighter than 2.1Kg? Either way, it's not much weight difference, especially when most of that difference is going into the bash mounts... Anyway, with Selectbike's prices, Python is an obvious winner, What I find strange is how no-one has really called up the fact that Select have lowered the price of the Python so much, yet the product is exactly the same? Even the new one is still super cheap (£100 less than the old one) for the SAME product, so surely that'd just suggest that they were over-priced before? In that the design is the same, are the new stickers like 100 quid cheaper or something? Unlikely, really. So maybe it's just that they're more realistically priced now? They're not going to continually sell at a loss, are they? I think the Yao Zhi Python is great for doing stuff like backwheel ups and rockwalks, stuff like that. It's also supposed to be better for bunnyhopping, but that's arguable. CLS Python is definitely better for static gaps, and feel better for riding natty on, from my experiences. Backwheel balance, in terms of backhopping on the spot, feels nicer to keep control on the CLS 'cos of longer stays. Yao Zhi is pretty nice for control still anyway, but I find stuff like long Echo Teams, to be stupidly twitchy with a long front and short back end... feels like a pogo stick ;) Depends what you like doing, I suppose, if you're a pure trials rider, then go for a CLS, but if you want to do different stuff like spins or manuals, then probs a Yao Zhi, there's not much in it between them, it's all personal preference. If you'd ridden the Zip though, and this wasn't completely just speculation, you'd realise that the Zip is damn good for spins and so on, simply because it's got shorter stays and a higher BB, making it just a flickier bike to ride. The ride "feels" like a T-Pro, but it actually rides nicer. It's hard to describe, but if you'd actually ridden them you'd spot the difference in ride instantly. This is purely because the geometry of the Zip is dialled. Like Ali said, I didn't find the Python I rode all that nice. I know it's all setup, blah blah blah, but the Python I rode was set up really similar to how I set my own bike up, and it just didn't feel as nice on the back wheel, to hop or anything, really. It just felt dull and lifeless, whereas the Zip just gives you more confidence to do stuff because it just rides so nicely. Like Fatmike said, you don't think you're going to make a gap, but then you suddenly do 'cos the back end just goes exactly where you want it to. It just rides really nicely for "real" trials and for tech natural, but it also rides really nice for street like tapping and ups to front, but also does spins and so on really well. I learnt to 360 bunnyhop on mine, hops to manual are super nice on it, and it's just a really fun bike to ride. So yeah, basically I'd say that instead of just saying "Ooh, that's £100 cheaper, than can't be bad", actually ride a Zip before you start saying it's not good. I still stand by the comment I made about the price - same product, but £100 cheaper (or even more for the YZ or CLS ones from this year). If it's THE SAME product for significantly less, that should give you a hint as to what the frame was really worth. Before anyone goes "Don't get so stressy about it", I'm not. It just annoys me that recently on here, with the reams of new products around, people are just assuming things and not actually bothering to think for any length of time about anything. This isn't a dig at Sponge either, it seems to just happen everywhere... Anyway, different topic for a different day :shifty: You said that the problem is that you can't shorten your chain to be much shorter than the python, like I mentioned, and said your stays are 360mm long. But I was refferring to the CLS python, which your stays are 15mm shorter than. So you can, in that case! Sorry, you misunderstood what I said - someone commented about my CS length (or the predicted 362mm stay length) and said you could take a link out and make it shorter. However, you can't get it below about 355mm at most because the CNC'd plate stops you from moving the wheel. So yeah, you can alter it from 362mm to CLS Python territory, but that's about it really. It won't go shorter than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janson Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 i prefer the ride of the zip over the cls. but i can not comment because my brakes are on the wrong levers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Oh, and just to add to the thread constructively, asking if you should get a "really" short bike or a "really" long bike is a bit sorta squiff, really. If you like shorter bikes, the shorter bike would be better, and vice versa obviously. 45mm of difference in wheelbase is quite a bit, to be fair, especially with the variation in geometry between the CLS and the YZ... And Janson, you still owned that sidehop at Bristol on any bike, even with the wrong brakes, whereas I couldn't even gap Peter's bike without arse-ground interaction :shifty: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janson Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 gonna learn switch brake taps next time round. could be interesting. that sidehop was not even high :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 It wasn't low though, and you pissed up it on my bike coming straight off your Coust. Take the f**king compliment already :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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