munkee Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 its true though, its a well known fact that doing 3 reps for 10 sets will make you stronger than doing 10 reps for 3 sets. The first being for muscle building, the 2nd for "toning" which by the way doesnt even exist. Everyone is "toned" its just covered by fat, doing 3 sets of 10 reps is better for technique and endurance. At the minute ive started on a pyramid routine: 10 reps at a low weight, 8 reps at a slighty harder weight then 6 on my hardest i can do for the 6 reps ( meaning last one is touch and go ) then go back. 10, 8 , 6, 8 , 10 That f**ks you a lot more than doing 3 sets of 10 reps. Also quick post.. today i touched the incline bench press for the first time in my life... and already i can do a higher and more reps weight than i can on normal bench. Even though i have been told incline is harder :blink: . I put it down to doing trials... giving random strong muscles. Another example of stupid strength down to this.. i did 135kg for 5 reps on leg extension/leg curl machine... :S Yes i admit 75kg's difficult for me but if i had been going to a gym for a year like you have i would find it a piec e of piss. I'll get a picture on monday when i next go in. Oh yea also.. was the 75kg done on a machine or bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_rob2@hotmail.com Posted November 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Oh yea also.. was the 75kg done on a machine or bar? Hes just told me on MSN that its on a machine. a one where you lay down on the bench and have a bar (just like proper benching) and then you put the pin at what weight you want ect These machines arnt 'true' weights, and there is leverage on the bars n stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkee Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Hes just told me on MSN that its on a machine. a one where you lay down on the bench and have a bar (just like proper benching) and then you put the pin at what weight you want ect These machines arnt 'true' weights, and there is leverage on the bars n stuff! Yea usually when you use machine weights its a 2:1 ratio so its likely he put it on to say 75.. but it is really 75/2 which is under 40..more realistic. Plus you dont have to concentrate one bit on technique, its like benching on the smith machine and then benching normally. Its piss easy on smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkey Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Didn't we sort out the whole machines run on ratios of 1:1 not anything else. If in doubt ask a member of staff and ask them what ratio the pulleys run at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkee Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Didn't we sort out the whole machines run on ratios of 1:1 not anything else. If in doubt ask a member of staff and ask them what ratio the pulleys run at. Not when its a home machine that runs on more pulleys and levers than you can shake your little monkey willy at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deagledaddy Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 erm no, it matter not where your doing it, the weight is the wieght. We already established the reason free weights are harder is because of the stabilising muscles which are needed. the machine weights are the same but easier due to the controlled movements due to the single pivot points, not because the weights are halved or whatever.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyT Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 This is shopping channel fighting talk here people. Ooh yes. people are just ignorant, not stupid by any means but just missing proper training. There is no spot reducing fat. Doing crunches won't get you a 6 pack. Fat can't be turned into muscle. Muscle won't turn into fat. 75kgs is extremely light weight. You have to train legs if you want to get strong; trials doesn't do shit for leg strength. Pyramids are especially good if you are looking for a body builder look, if you are looking for pure strength look into powerlifter routines. Monday Squats-5x5(Do four progressively heavier sets of 5 with the 5th set being your 5RM.) Deadlifts-5x5(Do the same) Bench Press-5x5(Do the same) Incline DB Press-2x12-20 Wednesday Light Squats or Lunges-4x8 each leg Good Mornings-3x8-12 Shoulder Press-5x5 or Dips-4xmax until you get 12 each time. then add weight. Pullups-4xmax Friday Squats-warmup to a 3 reps with 5 more lbs than you used on Monday. On the following monday use this weight for your 5th set. Bent Over Row-5x5 Incline Bench-5x5 Tricep Extensions-2x12-20 If you do this with proper eating you will gain weight and serious strength fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Elding Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Not when its a home machine that runs on more pulleys and levers than you can shake your little monkey willy at It's not a home machine. And i can do 75k's at 2 different gyms and i doubt both of them would have ''fake'' weights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_rob2@hotmail.com Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Theres a machine at my gym, where its like benchpressing, but you can do both arms simaltaniously (SP?) they start right next to your shoulders, then when you push up, your hands go to gether a little bit (kinda formin a triangle with your arms) you have to put your own weights on them (just like adding to benching) my mate can do 70KG on one side and 70KG on the other side. When hes doing the actual bench with the straight bar, he can only bench 80 at the most properly. Theres somthing not right there.... i think its cause its the bars that you are pushing up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkee Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 It's not a home machine. And i can do 75k's at 2 different gyms and i doubt both of them would have ''fake'' weights Whatever just saying its a lot for your age, size etc. I know people who have been training a couple of years and are only at 80kg Plus you dont have to concentrate one bit on technique, its like benching on the smith machine and then benching normally. Its piss easy on smith We already established the reason free weights are harder is because of the stabilising muscles which are needed. the machine weights are the same but easier due to the controlled movements due to the single pivot points, not because the weights are halved or whatever.... :blink: didnt i say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardman Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Whoever said 75kg isnt heavy, try being me, thats more than my body weight. I was doing 3 sets of 10 then went to the pyrmaid 10, 5, 2, then I went back to 3 sets of 10. I find going in there all pumpe dup heps and in this ouse its easy to ave an arfument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_rob2@hotmail.com Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 I find going in there all pumpe dup heps and in this ouse its easy to ave an arfument. Wha? lol Im going to the gym in a few hours, so if i can be arsd, il try and do 75KG lets see if i can punch out one reps on it... Joe, i have a test for you. Try and do some chin ups (proper ones, where you straighten your arms fully and then all the way up till your chest is touching the bar nearly) and if you cant do 5 of them, you definatly cant do 75KG, cause you never weigh 75Kg body weight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Elding Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Wha? lol Im going to the gym in a few hours, so if i can be arsd, il try and do 75KG lets see if i can punch out one reps on it... Joe, i have a test for you. Try and do some chin ups (proper ones, where you straighten your arms fully and then all the way up till your chest is touching the bar nearly) and if you cant do 5 of them, you definatly cant do 75KG, cause you never weigh 75Kg body weight... I'm 60kg and can to 20odd chin-ups. I cant do them proper though as my left elbow doesnt striaghten all the 180 degrees. more like 175 degrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardman Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Sorry its this stupid keyboard the keys dont work properly. I was saying it heps to go to the gym all pumped up and in my house its easy to start an arguement and get wound up perfect for pre gym warm up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_rob2@hotmail.com Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 I'm 60kg and can to 20odd chin-ups. I cant do them proper though as my left elbow doesnt striaghten all the 180 degrees. more like 175 degrees Ok then, hang 15KG off a kidney belt and try again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyT Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Whoever said 75kg isnt heavy, try being me, thats more than my body weight. I was doing 3 sets of 10 then went to the pyrmaid 10, 5, 2, then I went back to 3 sets of 10. I find going in there all pumpe dup heps and in this ouse its easy to ave an arfument. Yeah i forget that people on here are small/young. Most people my age who have been training for a year or more easily bench 102 kgs and not consider it to be strong. I would say once you get 1.5x your body weight you are starting to get strong, then again I don't really know anyone who weighs less than 80 kgs or so. When I was 16 after proper training I think the most I got to was ~15 kgs over my body weight. Getting big and lifting big (being strong) is very different from just looking like your typical fairy boy brad pitt type who weighs 65 kgs. To do that isn't hard at all, anyone over the age of 18 should be ashamed if they can't bench their own bodyweight within a month of lifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkee Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 (edited) how does that work then andrew? Example: One guy never uses his triceps or chest for any form "hard exercise" hes just your average guy that had a 9 - 5 office job. Are you saying someone who has never touched weights/bench press etc in his life could lift 70+kg in a month his example body weight? i would like to see that... really i would Edited November 19, 2005 by Spacemunkee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_rob2@hotmail.com Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 how does that work then andrew? Example: One guy never uses his triceps or chest for any form "hard exercise" hes just your average guy that had a 9 - 5 office job. Are you saying someone who has never touched weights/bench press etc in his life could lift 70+kg in a month his example body weight? i would like to see that... really i would same ere. That would be near impossible! you atleast need some muscle to lift more that 75KG! You cant just be the avrage joe and go and lift it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Getting big and lifting big (being strong) is very different from just looking like your typical fairy boy brad pitt type who weighs 65 kgs. Haven't you seen Snatch? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardman Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 By bench your own weight, how many reps are we talking about, if it is just a single rep then yes I can lift overmy body weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanRs Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 people are just ignorant, not stupid by any means but just missing proper training. There is no spot reducing fat. Doing crunches won't get you a 6 pack. Fat can't be turned into muscle. Muscle won't turn into fat. 75kgs is extremely light weight. You have to train legs if you want to get strong; trials doesn't do shit for leg strength. Pyramids are especially good if you are looking for a body builder look, if you are looking for pure strength look into powerlifter routines. Monday Squats-5x5(Do four progressively heavier sets of 5 with the 5th set being your 5RM.) Deadlifts-5x5(Do the same) Bench Press-5x5(Do the same) Incline DB Press-2x12-20 Wednesday Light Squats or Lunges-4x8 each leg Good Mornings-3x8-12 Shoulder Press-5x5 or Dips-4xmax until you get 12 each time. then add weight. Pullups-4xmax Friday Squats-warmup to a 3 reps with 5 more lbs than you used on Monday. On the following monday use this weight for your 5th set. Bent Over Row-5x5 Incline Bench-5x5 Tricep Extensions-2x12-20 If you do this with proper eating you will gain weight and serious strength fast. Come on then m8, if you no soo much then you must put it to good practise... so come on, show us the proof , put up some pics!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyT Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 If i wasn't an alcoholic this last year I could probably have some decent progress, I can't even lift much anymore after numerous shoulder injuries. I can be a good coach but have lacked the dedication since going through college and now in the real world..in high school i was in the gym 2-3 hours a day (which is actually worthless, 40 mins is all you need)- like you young guys its easy to spend time there when you are young so take advantage of it! Benching your own body weight, I am talking about a 1 rm. If a normal grown man can't bench his own body weight within a month he doesn't know how to train correctly...by normal I'm not talking a grown man who weighs 60 kgs and has never done a sport or picked up anything heavier than a pen in his whole life. A normal healthy person :) Remember I'm american, we are big people :- When I go overseas I'm a giant, its rather hilarious. Should have seen me and 7 of my friends in france - 6'7, 6'4, 6' all of us: all 2x as large as euros. As for a picture, this is all I could find from about 6 months ago in a joke thread over at OTN: (the expression is a JOKE :- ).. thats around 84 kgs weight. 1 rm lifts were: bench: ~105kgs squat: ~140kgs deadlift: ~159kgs I've been into the fat powerlifter look for the last year and a half, just care about lifts and strength not looks...kind of changing recently because of my injuries and I can't even ride let alone lift for the last 2 months which f**king blows. Guaranteed if anyone here did that 5x5 program, ate ~4500k calories a day (1.5grams protein per pound) - dirty or clean bulk, dirty preferred..just eat and lift, you will gain serious weight and serious muscle and very good lifts...you will gain fat!!! and alot of water, especially the first week. Do this for 6 months to a year, you will feel like a fat ass (20% body fat at least), after this 6 months drop to 1-200cal below maintenance and drop some cardio in, drop bf to 14 or so and see how much lbm you've gained and if you are happy about it....there is no way to add lbm/size and keep your weight down quickly, the people you see completely ripped and large either spend lots of years lifting (10+) naturally, or do serious bulks/cuts routinely for years on end. Once you get normal strength down I would add clean and jerks and other oly lifts to help explosivity in trials, if anyone ones fighting specific training I've got alot more knowledge about that. The stuff i'm talking about will only get you big and strong, its not for bodybuilding but everyone should start getting just some overall strength before beginning any kind of special routine...very good for beginners. also I'm not trying to be hostile or make fun of anyone or say I'm better than anyone at all- just trying to give info guys...no hostility meant :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave85 Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Andy, is this strength useable at all? or just one of those "well the challenge was there, may as well do it" kind of things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 I wouldn't have thought it would've been ideal, as you're largely working slow twitch muscle fibres, which isn't going to help for the explosive power you need for trials? Not to mention you'll be carrying extra weight too? Just think of Benito, he's not massively muscly or anything, but he can throw himself and his bike up stuff approx. 18x taller than he is :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyT Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Vincent said benitos size has almost doubled in a few years since he first started riding...he lifts, believe me. The strength is useable, the size isn't that good though..but if you are 140 pounds or 60 kgs or whatever it is important to go up in size. Thats why I said do cleans and stuff (olympic lifts) to increase explosive power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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