deadly venom Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Onzaboymark, Let's not get so hot under the collar, I was just making a comment. You made a very good point Mark. I ride flatland and I have to adjust my wheel after a while due to wheel movement causing the chain to slacken. I was just coming from my own experiences. Ride on, Deadly venom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeee Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Mark you keep saying Mods "Work" but so do Stocks. Getting the wheel out of a Revel trials frame looks a complete pain in the arse. I personally wouldn't ever buy a Stock frame with horizontal dropouts. Also i can't see the point in having horizontal dropouts and then running gears? As your mech would do the chain tensioning job for you. Then meaning the horizontal dropouts would be useless. The only time i can see it being a benefit is if you want to run singlespeed without a tensioner(As Jamie said). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smo™ Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 That t-shirt is horrendous (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 that wasp is the dogs!!!!!i want one :D (Y) also the 26" bike is built to a price point people,come on dont be expecting a god damn XTP at £425.00!!!! and as most people are used to the onza price point this is a respectable bike i think, the koxx name may appeal to some people rather than the spec, and it looks well streety to me. Waynio........................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SQuiT-man Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 I rode stock, got fed up with it (mainly due to bending mech hangers and messing up gearing every time I bailed), but now ride mod, and WOW it is soooo much simpler. If there were some decent stocks out there with horizontal dropouts (which personally Id run singlespeed with either chain tugs, or snail cams (yes, snail cams on a stock- even if I had to drill the holes myself and make the snail cams out of sheets of metal)), I probs wouldnt be riding mod today. I know it isnt worlds-legal to run singlespeed on a stock, but hey, Im not going to be entering the worlds anytime soon, Ill be practicing, and braking mech hangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisRider Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Onzaboymark, Let's not get so hot under the collar, I was just making a comment. You made a very good point Mark. I ride flatland and I have to adjust my wheel after a while due to wheel movement causing the chain to slacken. I was just coming from my own experiences. Ride on, Deadly venom ive never had to adjust my wheel on my mod in the 3months+that ive owned it-the chains perfectly tensioned still.......bit weird, id expect some chain slack but there isnt any (Y) and whats 15 mins quickly tensioning it (due to chain stretch) and readjusting the brake? it really is as simple as that Mark you keep saying Mods "Work" but so do Stocks. Getting the wheel out of a Revel trials frame looks a complete pain in the arse. I personally wouldn't ever buy a Stock frame with horizontal dropouts. Also i can't see the point in having horizontal dropouts and then running gears? As your mech would do the chain tensioning job for you. Then meaning the horizontal dropouts would be useless. The only time i can see it being a benefit is if you want to run singlespeed without a tensioner(As Jamie said). yeah mods work, marks right, they work bloody well! also, yes stocks work, but at a very high cost due to having to replace bloody mechs/tensioners/hangers.........its a real pain in the rectum for most riders, who then cant afford to upgrade-its wasting thier money. i noticed you say removing the wheel 'looks a complete pain in the arse' by that im assuming you've never tried it-bacically its a piece of piss, ive run a mech on my p2 (has horizontals and inbuilt mech hanger) and its no more difficult that gettin a wheel out of a vertical dropout) dont judge it til you tried it-also how often do you take the wheel off anyway? as for running gears on a horizontal frame, yeah seems pointless if thats all you gonna run i agree......but the option is there for you and at what extra cost? its not gonna hold you back is it........ I rode stock, got fed up with it (mainly due to bending mech hangers and messing up gearing every time I bailed), but now ride mod, and WOW it is soooo much simpler. If there were some decent stocks out there with horizontal dropouts (which personally Id run singlespeed with either chain tugs, or snail cams (yes, snail cams on a stock- even if I had to drill the holes myself and make the snail cams out of sheets of metal)), I probs wouldnt be riding mod today. I know it isnt worlds-legal to run singlespeed on a stock, but hey, Im not going to be entering the worlds anytime soon, Ill be practicing, and braking mech hangers. see this man knows the score, i cant believe there arent more stock riders who think like this, and by the sounds of it, is in a similiar position to most riders-he doesnt ride comps so doesnt care about gears..... im not meaning to dig at you deadly venom and luke, just you both dont seem to have any real reasons not to want horizontal or to dismiss it for stocks in general........except maybe if the bike is comp only. but maybe me and mark are wrong? give us a few proper valid reasons perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave85 Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 ...but maybe me and mark are wrong? give us a few proper valid reasons perhaps? Just personally, horizontal dropouts have given me more grief than everything else combined. I wouldnt have them, just like you avoid curtis like the plague since your forks broke (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 I don't particularly mind if people don't like horizontal dropouts or whatever, but they are useful for singlespeed, and even for using gears. It just seems stupid people being so against a new design idea in trials bikes. Similar to when people really used to complain when more and more frames started using 4-bolt mounts, seat-less designs, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisRider Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Just personally, horizontal dropouts have given me more grief than everything else combined. I wouldnt have them, just like you avoid curtis like the plague since your forks broke :D lol well i did kinda buy a curtis frame afterwards.... I don't particularly mind if people don't like horizontal dropouts or whatever, but they are useful for singlespeed, and even for using gears. It just seems stupid people being so against a new design idea in trials bikes. Similar to when people really used to complain when more and more frames started using 4-bolt mounts, seat-less designs, etc... it'll catch on mark, just you wait and see (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeee Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 I don't particularly mind if people don't like horizontal dropouts or whatever, but they are useful for singlespeed, and even for using gears. It just seems stupid people being so against a new design idea in trials bikes. Similar to when people really used to complain when more and more frames started using 4-bolt mounts, seat-less designs, etc... How are they useful for running gears? Its hardly like that at all. If someone doesn't see eye to eye with you. You say there jumping on some kind of bandwagon which isn't true. My experiences with horizontal dropouts have been diabolical, I've never had problems with vertical dropouts. So why would i say this new bikes is a great idea? If you want horizontal dropouts its a great bike but i just can't think why you would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 How are they useful for running gears? Its hardly like that at all. If someone doesn't see eye to eye with you. You say there jumping on some kind of bandwagon which isn't true. My experiences with horizontal dropouts have been diabolical, I've never had problems with vertical dropouts. So why would i say this new bikes is a great idea? If you want horizontal dropouts its a great bike but i just can't think why you would. Sorry, I meant ot say "and you can even use gears with them." There's no bandwagon people are jumping on, it's just that people seem to have really shit preconceptions about horiz. dropouts that aren't true, and in that they're great for singlespeed (which it seems a shitload of riders run), it might be good for trials. Never mind though <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Bleech Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 That t-shirt is horrendous <_< that tee shirt is awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houseface Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 i dont really like either of them. they look disgusting(sp?) >_< :blink: but the components look good. steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 I had an interesting chat with Dave Butler about this (the Koxx entry level thing, not horizontal drop-outs). He was saying about how Onza really exploited the entry level market, and look at what a good idea that was! Look at the sheer range of parts and frames they do now, and the money they're making! I think Koxx (like Pashley) realised that there's money to be made in cheap entry level full bikes. Bear in mind that with the popularity of the sport on the rise, more and more people will want bikes. And apart from the spoilt brats, most under 16 year olds (or perhaps not 'most'??) can't afford a thousand pound Levelboss build. Besides, it's all just extra choice. True, the acid drop does look a bit crap, and for the money it cost to produce they could have done something better, but then look at the first Onza TRex... And as for horizontal drop-outs, I think they're a crap idea. Why not just go and buy a 26" dirt frame and stop clinging to trials components? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 horizontal dropouts rule, very much like a straight drawing tool!! cheap frames = good in my books, the more people can get into the sport the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 Amen. i totally agree with that one Ali. Waynio......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaRtZ Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 horizontal dropouts rule, very much like a straight drawing tool!! cheap frames = good in my books, the more people can get into the sport the better. I get it :( :o (Y) Yeah i agree too. IMO Ill always buy cheap frames because even expensive ones break (my opinion still) :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Jones Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 I like the look of the Wasp, less so of the Acid Drop. As has been said, cheap bikes are a good thing for people starting out in the sport, as many parents probably buy the bikes and they must have no idea if their son/daughter's new hobbie will turn into a 5 minute wonder.. so its good... but a better design could be had perhaps. I rode the DB trials frame for ages (as most people know) and I didn't really have a problem with the Horizontal drop-outs. Maybe they are cheaper to use that vertical dropouts... I dunno. Each to their own opinion. I still think Koxx are trying to take over the world :turned: Jonny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Release a good cheap product under the Koxx name and it will undercut the more expensive models. So they did the opposite - Release a bad but cheap product under the Koxx name and people who don't know better will buy it. Well that's what it looks like. I.e. awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Release a good cheap product under the Koxx name and it will undercut the more expensive models. So they did the opposite - Release a bad but cheap product under the Koxx name and people who don't know better will buy it. Well that's what it looks like. I.e. awful. Yep, they'll probably do the usual thing of sloooooooowly lowering the price of their other models to reach this bracket though. Same as the Koxx stickers being taken off, Yaabaa being put on and the price being lowered? And same as how suddenly ZOO!'s frames are worth over £100 less than they were like 2 months ago? Ah well, isn't it nice being played for chumps :turned: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_ferret Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 both very in your face which is nice to see instead of silver! still not a great fan though bit funky oggy :shifty: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesb Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 (edited) Does anyone know the dimensions of the stem on the XTP-R? It looks over 30 degrees... Edited November 16, 2005 by jamesb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davetrials Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 It is just over 30 i think cos its for kiddies.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanbikes Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Does anyone know the dimensions of the stem on the XTP-R? It looks over 30 degrees... 110mm 35 degrees 31.8mm clamp :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 i like the 3 posts 4 above mine!!!!! ^^^^^^ sounds like even though when koxx are making a cheaper bike they still wont please everyone :P so heres a simple bit of terminology for you. "If you dont like it dont fricking buy it!" for the people who like the look of it they aint going to not buy it cos someone has said thats well poo poo even though i have never had one or ridden one. just like most people on here, too much in the ways of opinions and not enough riding goes down. iv seen some pretty useful posts on the forum today. some of the ones above aint but its about as informative as a fish giving advice on buyiong a fish bowl aint it? that wasp i think is kool as hell. what you all have to stop and think of is this, koxx are trying to hit a market that is suffering, the "youth and young" of trials have no bikes that suit them, unfortunatly with tooling and having bikes designed "specifically" there is going to be more of a charge, then when someone comes along and rips them off like companies usually do then its like "ye there well over priced" but in fact they aint its just that this company has taken time to bring the youth and keep the sport up and coming and hopefully keep interest and produce interest. how many people who have posted negative critism in this post have actually HAD a koxx frame and broken it? or been dissatisfied with the durability of their product? iv had try-all rims and from what people were telling me i werent expecting them to last long, instead my hub gives up the ghost before my rim!!!!! my hub flanges snapped on my hope due to the salt on the roads and it has affected the hub and spokes have just snapped the flanges. but the rim is still pukka. same with my levelboss the new one, i tried my hardest to actually see how strong it actually was without physically beating it. and i dont get how so many of you have so vivid minds and views on things. same with my belaey from seeing how thin the downtubes are on these frames and the style and aggresive ness of my riding i havent actually dented the frame too bad and it has sure taken more abuse in 2 1/2 months than most peoples go through in 9/10months!!!! Waynio......................... am sure people who have seen me ride in the last few weeks will know im not one for going out and practising smoothness :P :P id rather go out and rip stuff up be different and try different things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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