Phatmike Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 (edited) Hey guys, just a quick post about the Mavic rim I've been running for the past 2 months. Inspired by Ali C's "bob", It's simply a Mavic X517/XC717 and a Mavic F519/XM719 bolted together with 16 X M3 bolts + nuts, giving a total width of 46.2mm. 2X X517's would give a 43.2mm wide rim, and a weight of 840g and 2 F519's would give a 49.2mm wide rim, and a weight of ~920g. The rim as it stands is a little under 900g, which, with a bit of light drilling (If you really wanted to...) would bring it down past the 781g weight of a 32h ronnie. However, the main purpose of this rim is to be strong, the type of people that would use it probably wouldn't really care about the odd 100g. I've found the side which the X517 is on is denting a little more than I'd hoped, but this was because when I was lacing it, I failed to anticipate the fact that I normally kick out to the left, so if I did it again, using the same combo of rims, I'd put it on the right. The 519 side only has one small dent, and I do regularly kick out + land to the right, so it seems very dent resistant - a lot more so than any previous rims! I purchased the bolts + nuts I needed from Focus, which was the only place I could find that stocked M3 bolts + nuts! They were £1.50 for 10 bolts and nuts, so a few quid's worth had me sorted. :( When making it, obviously a metal drill bit is needed, and an electric drill, I think that using a 4mm drill bit (+ 3mm bolts and nuts) would be easier, so you have a larger scope for accuracy when marking them to drill the other rim (see below). You need to judge where to drill the 1st hole, as to have it centered between the vertical "inside" face of the rim, so the nut has a good place to sit; It's not brain surgery to get it in the right place, and using the CNC'd lines that run around the braking surface of the rim, it's easy to judge the next drilling, so they mantain the right height. Where it is in proportion to the circumference of the rim isn't that important at all - so long as you drill the hole every 2 spoke holes, roughly in the middle, and the right level of up + down. Once you've drilled the 16 holes, take the other rim, and drill one hole in that one, using the same guidelines as for the previous rim. Then, take one of the bolts and nuts, and do it up, doesn't need to be tight. Then, using a scriber, something sharp + solid, or a decent pen, mark a point through another hole, on the other end of the rim. Whilst keeping the bolt in place, move the rim over, so you can drill where you've marked, then put a bolt through that hole aswell. Then, using your marker, mark a point through each of the remaining 14 holes, unbolt one of the existing bolts you've put in there, and drill the rest of the 14 holes. Then just put all of the rest of the bolts back in. Do them up, and if you want (reccomended), put some araldite/epoxy resin over all of them, so they won't shake loose. :) If some of the holes don't quite line up, simply take a narrow file, and make the hole a bit wider, then re-insert the bolt. Now you've got the rim bolted together, and something to stop the bolts coming loose, it's ready to lace. I decided to cross the spokes, so the spokes coming out of the left hand side of the hub go to the right hand side of the rim + vice versa. Spoke lengths can be a bit difficult, but can be sorted easily using the advanced spoke calculater, simply do it one side at a time (Left hand side = non drive side of the hub :sick:) and where it says rim offset, just put in (in mm obviously, half the width of the rim that it's being laced to), and it will take the offset into account. Or, if that's a bit too complicated for you, I'm sure if you're buying the spokes from tartybikes.co.uk, Adam will be happy to help. :) Once you've got the rim laced up, (remembering to use every other spoke hole in each rim, and to do the left hand side of the hub go to the right hand side of the rim + vice versa), true it up. It confused me at 1st, when I wasn't paying any attention, but you have to look which side of the hub the spoke goes to to see whether it will pull it to the left or right. Just watch out. ;) Another awesome benefit of the rim is the fact that, being a Mavic, it grind's bloody well. I'm not sure if it's my heatsink blau pads, or the rim, but my brake's been immense since I've had it, and in the 2 months I've had it, I've not reground it since the 1st day I built it up! Also, apart from the initial bedding in, letting it all mesh together, I've not had to true it, and it's bloody strong. I've been doing some pretty big lines recently, some of them NOT smooth, and with a low tyre pressure, but the rim simply takes it in it's stride, it's so stiff and strong! To cover the bolt, i used a small square of folded paper over each one + some parcel tape all the way around, it's now completely smooth, and at the outside edges of the rim, still provides a perfectly normal tyre seating. :- A DH tube, (and a Maxxis single ply tyre B)) is reccomended, to cover it all. I couldn't imagine a standard tube in any wide rim, especially with the 2.5+ tyres that are being used these days! A lesson which I learned from Ali C is that welding it is not a good idea, the heat distorts the shape, and the strength/hardness of the rim, so it is hard to build, and becomes soft. Bolting it is definately the best way forward. So, if like me, you're tired of the crappy quality, shit grinds, and weakness associated with nearly all of the wide trials rims out today, try something different, and improve the strength, looks, brake, and individuality of your bike! I hope some of you (at least have read the post!) are interested in trying this project, as it really is awesome, if at any stage you need any help - I'll be more than happy to help. Pic1 Pic2 Pic3 Pic4 Pic5 (Note; pics of the rim are when I did it with only 8 bolts. This is not enough!) More pics of the rim build up + my bike here. Mike. :) Edited October 1, 2005 by Fatmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Awesome post Mike, cheers for putting all that info up so clearly and concisely ;) I'm sure if I rode stock I'd probably think about doing this, the whole 'rock and a hard place' thing on needing a wider rim but them being shite has now been sorted it seems :- Good job, looks cool :sick: Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 What with winter coming up seems like the ideal project for a rainy day! Very Good post. Very good idea :sick: Thanks, Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat hudson Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 if say, i had a "friend" who wanted this done, and he didnt want to make a pigs ear of it. could this "friend" send the two rims to you so you could do it. im sure a price could be arranged :sick: (for my friend ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmike Posted October 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 if say, i had a "friend" who wanted this done, and he didnt want to make a pigs ear of it. could this "friend" send the two rims to you so you could do it. im sure a price could be arranged :) (for my friend :) ) Urr, yeah. I don't really see why not. It does take a fair amount of time, but it could be done. ;) :- Cheers Mark, once I've got my new rear tyre (been waiting over a month - stupid American bikeshops :sick:), I'll be getting tubeless on the go F+R, expect a post as detailed as the one above. I've also spent many hours playing about with tubeless, and I think I've finally got the knowhow + equipment to get it going perfectly - especially with winter coming up. :( Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisRider Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 hmmm i have two d521s sitting in the shed......my arms getting twisted just cos im bored and wanna get questions like 'whers you seat' and 'why have you got 2 back wheels' (chav interpretation of rims) i can see this catching on too, is there anyway of getting away without the inner walls? or if we were to do it i spose we could drill the feck out of them ;) like the disc onza hog rim how about rivots over nuts and bolts? marginally lighter :sick: and a more pernament fixing :- ooo advice to chappies thinkin about doing this: try it on sum old shitty rims first, please dont wreck nice new ones :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swize Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 hmmm i have two d521s sitting in the shed......my arms getting twisted just cos im bored and wanna get questions like 'whers you seat' and 'why have you got 2 back wheels' (chav interpretation of rims) i can see this catching on too, is there anyway of getting away without the inner walls? or if we were to do it i spose we could drill the feck out of them ;) like the disc onza hog rim how about rivots over nuts and bolts? marginally lighter :sick: and a more pernament fixing :- ooo advice to chappies thinkin about doing this: try it on sum old shitty rims first, please dont wreck nice new ones :( You could get rid of the inner side walls i suppose but you would have to leave tabs ect. But what me and mike did in the end was arialdite (glue) the two side walls togeather then bolt them just so theres no way its gonna come apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Drewery Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 It looks like quite a good solution to cheap and nasty wide rims on the market. However in a lot of frames would'nt setting the brake up be a complete bitch? Would you have to cut/file the pads down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loffa Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 However in a lot of frames would'nt setting the brake up be a complete bitch? Would you have to cut/file the pads down? Koxx 47mm rims and the new Echo rims are still wider, and most of the frames have no problem fitting them. Anyway, good to hear, that it works well. I was thinking of doing the same(even before seeing your rim), but when I found out that a 47mm rim won't fit my frame without sanding the pads down I gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Any pics of the rim at the moment Mike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squince Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Would this be possible with two thin mod rims? What exactly made you ant to do this? stop puncturing? cheers andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Any pics of the rim at the moment Mike? Some in the Bike Pics thread, along with Mike's sexified anodized parts :sick: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigman Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Any pics of the rim at the moment Mike? HAHAHAHAHA, i like the fact that in those pics of Mikes bike has has missed out all the dents, i rode worcester with him yesterday and that rim was F*CKED it was very very dead, dents all over the shop, so i think i will be sticking with a ronnie for a little bit longer, or the new echo rim when they are releaced. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkey Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Looks good, but surely the big gaps between the spokes can't be helping it strength?? Maybe someone should get on the blower to some company and ask em to make wider rims, or possibly make their own. Pads to Boosters to Rims to anything and everything. :sick: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 i like the fact that in those pics of Mikes bike has has missed out all the dents, i rode worcester with him yesterday... dents all over the shop Yeah, I did wonder after seeing some Bristol pics, such a this one: http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/6564/23copy6wy.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan6061 Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 what's it like innertube wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmike Posted October 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 (edited) Any pics of the rim at the moment Mike? Not from the non driveside, I prefer not to take photos from that side, as it's a lot less pretty. Ali C (who had the frame before me) decided to use nitromors to remove the sticker residue!! :S I've found the side which the X517 is on is denting a little more than I'd hoped, but this was because when I was lacing it, I failed to anticipate the fact that I normally kick out to the left, so if I did it again, using the same combo of rims, I'd put it on the right. The 519 side only has one small dent, and I do regularly kick out + land to the right, so it seems very dent resistant - a lot more so than any previous rims! HAHAHAHAHA, i like the fact that in those pics of Mikes bike has has missed out all the dents, i rode worcester with him yesterday and that rim was F*CKED it was very very dead, dents all over the shop, so i think i will be sticking with a ronnie for a little bit longer, or the new echo rim when they are releaced. Adam Urr, to be fair Adam, it's a LONG way from f**ked! Yes, there's quite a few dents (as I explained in the 2nd paragraph of my 1st post - see above), but all of them are very small, and due to the design of the rim, they're all only dented just a few mm "into" the edge of the rim, so it's not like all the sidewalls have gone. And besides, I folded the rim back out now, so it's not even noticable. And I've not trued my rim in well over a month, and everyone who I was riding with today can vouch for A ) how true it is and B ) how big I was going today! I can fully guarantee to you that no other wide trials rim out there will withstand that abuse. So if you think you're ronnie's any better than - well that's your opinion. :) what's it like innertube wise? The inner tube's fine, like I said, I've used tape and paper to cover it up, so a nice big DH tube does it brilliantly. :) Mike. Edited October 2, 2005 by Fatmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Motivator Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 That just looks f**king silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 And seatless, compact framed, long bikes don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swize Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 (edited) ignor me .. Edited November 4, 2005 by samthebiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipsy Jock Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Yes but is there a point when you can get 19" DX32's apparlently there the shizzle ?? Am i the only one that didn't understand that? :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkee Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) Ok enough of the performance, how much price wise did all of this cost you? To me.. if your denting the rim that much.. just run a higher pressure.. or learn to be smooh. Its a no brainer really, just seems like a lot of hassle just to make something that isnt really needed. Not trying to have a go or anything but like you said it takes a lot of time and effort to get it working. With mixed results. Edited October 3, 2005 by Spacemunkee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmike Posted October 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) Ok enough of the performance, how much price wise did all of this cost you? To me.. if your denting the rim that much.. just run a higher pressure.. or learn to be smooh. Its a no brainer really, just seems like a lot of hassle just to make something that isnt really needed. Price wise came to this; Mavic Rims from Chainreactions, 2 @ £25 each - £50 Bolts, 2 packs @ £1.50 each - £3 So £53, which is what, a measly £15 over a koxx rim?! I know what I'd rather spend my money on. And, like I said, to stop it denting, I would either put the 517 side on the right, as I land a lot less on that side, and/or use 2 519 rims. And it wasn't a tremendous amount of hassle. If this rim decided to collapse (which I certainly doubt it will), then I'll simply be replacing it. And I think it is needed, all of the trials rims out there just aren't as strong as this, and simply don't grind as well. If you think a stronger rim, and better grinds aren't needed in trials then... Mike. :S Edited October 3, 2005 by Fatmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-A Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 I have to say hats off to you Mike, for spenmding the money and trying these things. But at the same time I dont think this rim is as revolutionary as you say. You mention the plus point of it holding a grind well, which it does, but with the new selection of pads available this isn't such a big deal. As you said your Blue Heatsinks work awesomely, and they do, but they also work just aswell on Flipkickbs' bike which has a normal Echo rim, and you've felt the brake is just as good. That could just be down to the pads working well for you two. Theres no denying the rim is denting, and regularily. It does seems to be staying true and egg free but the sidewalls are taking a battering, and I cant see it beeing long before they start to crack. What I think you would need is 521 strength sidewalls, but that would make a rim too wide and far too heavy. Which brings me onto the next point, the rim IS heavy. If that doesn't bother you fair enuogh, but to me that would matter. Drilling it would bring the weight down, but it would also reduce the overall strength. This may lead to it beeing as easy to buckle/egg as a normal rim. Its a fair experement, and worth doing, but if I was riding a stock I think I'd just get a normal rim and compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Would this be possible with two thin mod rims? I very much doubt it, as the thinnest mod rim is still quite fat, and if you had two of them, they would most likely be too fat for the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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