joshywa Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 hey all i saw the new onza limey today and realised that it looks alot like the bt ninja (i think so) and it got me thinking why are so many companies aloud to make similar frame's e.g. zona = zoo python or t bird = mission prodigy. So i geuss my question is are'nt there laws against it ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 don't think there is because all the t-pro is a cheap version of the levelboss. the reason they proberly can get away with it is because the frames won't be exactly the same even though they look the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 hey all i saw the new onza limey today and realised that it looks alot like the bt ninja (i think so) and it got me thinking why are so many companies aloud to make similar frame's e.g. zona = zoo python or t bird = mission prodigy. So i geuss my question is are'nt there laws against it ??? Please actually do some research before you fly around such stuff. Danny has been tweaking that frame for bloody ages. Have a look at onza.com, theres a good 3 prototypes just on there, and i'm pretty sure there was about 1 or 2 after them 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshywa Posted September 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) i know they have different geometery's, the limey is 10mm shorter but has 15mm longer chain stays i was on about the shape and features on the bikes. Edited September 23, 2005 by joshywa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aust Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Please actually do some research before you fly around such stuff. Danny has been tweaking that frame for bloody ages. Have a look at onza.com, theres a good 3 prototypes just on there, and i'm pretty sure there was about 1 or 2 after them 3. danny and also his dad have spent alot of time testing the frame.... but also... think of the people at onza... who spend day in day out.. getting the designs right to please the two top riders here at onza.. (slinger and dan) so much time and effort goes into these frames... and theyve all had many sleepless nights over it.. to say that the frame is a "copy" is silly... its totally unique.. it would be stupid to give every onza team rider a signature frame..(eveyrone would be worked off their feet) so theyve come up with two top end frames (a 20 and a 26) tested by the countries best riders.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Aust, I don't think he was implying BT had copied Onza - we all know that there have been several Limey prototypes and that Danny has been testing them. I think 'joshywa' is just trying to say that lots of designs look similar - perhaps BT/Onza was a bad example, but look at XTP/Czar, etc. He's a new member and probably a bit confused by it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 i was on about the shape and features on the bikes. Like what... Head tube, BB shell, tubes, two triangles and dropouts? The Ninja is a very different beast to the Limey. Maybe if the Limey it was silver your judgement would be different? As Aust and Si say, there have been numerous versions of the Limey throughout prototyping, its a top frame, and I'm sure you will enjoy it - similar colour to the Ninja or not. About 'frame copying', you have to remember all these frames are made in the far east. The drawings for the frames are made available to pretty much anyone who wants them. The T-Pro/Levelboss mod frames are in the catalogue on the Pulo website for all to see. I believe Zona were asked if they wanted to order ZOO Python frames with 'Zona' on them - they declined, and made their own version instead, actually making things more difficult for themselves! Enjoy your frame :sleeping: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) With the Zona and T-Pro, apparantly after the factory that makes them for Koxx/Zoo!/whatever has made so many for Koxx/Zoo!/whatever, they are then licenced to sell the frames with slight tweakages to whomever they want. Giving you cheaper copies of the more expensive frames. Edited September 23, 2005 by andyroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canned Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 I agree - it's not a question of doubting the amount of work that goes into a bike - prototypes, testing etc. I don't think anyone would take that effort away from designers & builders. I agree though - there are a lot of bikes out there with similar "styling cues". At the end of the day, the look of a bike is all about the package that a set of geometries, qualities, weight balances and lasting strength is built into - so why do lots of bikes end up looking the same? Because there is a limit to these combinations... I'm guessing that most bike companies also accept this and see the way the bike looks as secondary. That being the case, perhaps they don't mind too much if a rival company comes out with a bike that looks like theirs considering there are enough people who seem to be anal enough that they'll advertise the original by saying "it's just a bloody copy of......" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshywa Posted September 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) so much time and effort goes into these frames... i'm not saying that they didnt put time and effort into those frames i was mearley asking "are there not copy right laws preventsing SIMILAR frames being produced" i wasnt saying they where copys or something !and if anything i take my hat off to danny butler for what looks like a beutifully built and designed frame. though at the risk of being hypocritical im in the process of ordering a zona (also a beutiful design) so instead of turning this post into a "who can pick on the new member" fest i'll repeat the question "are there not copy right laws preventsing SIMILAR frames being produced" or does the different geometry's void all those laws ??? also how am i "flying around such stuff" i was asking a question not attacking danny or onza in any way, if any thing i also appluade onza as they have probably brought huge amouts of people to the sport (which isnt a bad thing) and they're line in bike's and frames at the minuite is VERY impresive in my view. Edited September 23, 2005 by joshywa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towler Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Suppose if companys didnt take ideas from anyone else then you wouldnt have such a good choice to choose from, you will find that as everyone else has stated that, ok the frames look similar but the geo on all of them is compleatly different. Its good that designes are almost copyed or shared (what ever way you want to put it) because this creats alot more frames for us (the riders) some times at cheaper prices. But with similar bikes at cheaper prices it either brings profit to one company who sell them cheaper and surley must afect the other company. Im not going to give any examples of this because the frames are each different and unique. But think of the benifits now most new comp frames are CNC wich makes them stronger, so its all good :) - I just wanted to give my summery on what i thought about "frame copys", feel free to slate or what ever :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canned Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 I'd say as regards geometry - you can't copyright measurements... Although you can't copyright individual notes in music either but I think the law there surrounds the combination of notes that matches in other songs... So if a new song comes out that has a sample in it from another song, permission is sought and royalties get paid. If permission isn't sought and the writer of the new song claims that they came up with the riff themselves it gets messy if someone else can claim it as their own. What I'm saying is that at a very oblique guess, if head tube angle, bb height, stay length etc etc were identical on the bikes of competing manufacturers, then the first company out with their bike could have a case.... Maybe - I don't know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshywa Posted September 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) hey thanks to everyone who posted, adam has pretty much answered my question and sorry if anyone took it the wrong way (i wasnt insulting the limey just using it as an example) snapples post pretty much sums up what i was trying to ask! anyhoo thanz all :) Edited September 23, 2005 by joshywa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Just as a minor correction: The Mission Prodigy is a tweaked version of the first T-Pro frameset released after the square-tubed "T-Frameset" (the T-Frameset having been released in 2000, the T-Pro frame being released in late '01/early '02?). Not to mention Mission making the heinous mistake of having 1.5" headtubes on their bikes :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 All BMX frames look the same, i think that about sums it up really if you think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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