Kanye West

[andyroo]

That's the whole point:  Some of them couldn't afford to, either from having no money and therefore not being able to just leave all their worldly possessions, and some just couldn't afford to go in terms of transport and so on.  This is why people were pissed.  The people who couldn't afford were the poorer people, the majority of which were black.

EDIT:  The size of area that's been affected is apparently the same size as the UK, so sayeth the guy from Newsnight last night.  So really, unless you could drive or whatever there was naff all you could do anyway...

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Ok then, so my next point would be; is it George's fault that these people cant afford to evacuate?

A bus doesnt cost much out of town, and its easy enough to get a bus out to the next state... they knew that if they stayed or left, their wordly possesions would be lost either way, so you would think, that for the sake of themselves, and for their children, they would have caught a bus out of the danger zone.

If they have known for ages that their flood defences are not adequate, and that Americas biggest storm is coming, what do they think stubbornly sitting back and not leaving is going to do to them? They had more than enough warning to raise a few dollars each to catch a bus.

And overall what IS the reason that all the poorer people in America are black?

EDIT: I admire Kanye's courage/stupidity to call what he makes music

Edited September 7, 2005 by andyroo

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

because they got f**ked over by segregation

[Tony Harrison]

What did you say before you edited?  If you don't agree with me about something I'd rather you said than just going 'I agree' or whatever (Y)

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I just had the thumbs up, not realising that AndyRoo had posted between you and me.

[andyroo]

because they got f**ked over by segregation

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Explain what you mean?

EDIT: I dont like the way Kanye spoke like he was representing the black community of America, "my people" and all that stuff... you can tell Chris Tucker wasn't too impressed...

Edited September 7, 2005 by andyroo

[Brian Bleech]

Ok then, so my next point would be; is it George's fault that these people cant afford to evacuate?

A bus doesnt cost much out of town, and its easy enough to get a bus out to the next state... they knew that if they stayed or left, their wordly possesions would be lost either way, so you would think, that for the sake of themselves, and for their children, they would have caught a bus out of the danger zone.

If they have known for ages that their flood defences are not adequate, and that Americas biggest storm is coming, what do they think stubbornly sitting back and not leaving is going to do to them? They had more than enough warning to raise a few dollars each to catch a bus.

And overall what IS the reason that all the poorer people in America are black?

EDIT: I admire Kanye's courage/stupidity to call what he makes music

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A lot of them had no-where to go? Generations of families living in the same place. They would rather risk staying where they live, instead of going somewhere with no money, food or shelter..

[Tomm]

If they have known for ages that their flood defences are not adequate, and that Americas biggest storm is coming, what do they think stubbornly sitting back and not leaving is going to do to them? They had more than enough warning to raise a few dollars each to catch a bus.

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But the storm was degraded before it hit anyway, they never thought it woul be a problem. And they probably DID think that the flood defenses were OK, I mean what kind of city is it that isn't prepared for hurricanes that come every year (OK this one was a bit worse, but still).

[andyroo]

A lot of them had no-where to go? Generations of families living in the same place. They would rather risk staying where they live, instead of going somewhere with no money, food or shelter..

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Alright.... put it this way... would you rather be:

1) Alive and well, but homeless

or

2) Severely injured, kids dead, homeless, with a huge hospital bill

cos that was the choice they had.

EDIT: Tomm, it was all over the news the week before it had happened that this storm was the biggest America had seen, and waaaaaaay surpassed the defences that New Orleans had.

EDIT AGAIN: Anywho, were drifting from the point, it was unfair of Kanye to be so personal about his reasons as to the balls-up, especially as he probably has a lot of sway over black people all over america, which may lead to unnessesary violence. Noone know George's motives, and I'm sure that the fact that he hates black people wouldnt go down too well on his C.V.

It was uncalled for and unnessesary to the cause he was supposed to be representing. For all he knows, he could have jeopadised the amount of aid given now because people disagree with him.

Edited September 7, 2005 by andyroo

[Tomm]

EDIT: Tomm, it was all over the news the week before it had happened that this storm was the biggest America had seen, and waaaaaaay surpassed the defences  that New Orleans had.

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Yes, and then it was downgraded (Y)

[Mark W]

Alright.... put it this way... would you rather be:

1) Alive and well, but homeless

or

2) Severely injured, kids dead, homeless, with a huge hospital bill

cos that was the choice they had.

EDIT: Tomm, it was all over the news the week before it had happened that this storm was the biggest America had seen, and waaaaaaay surpassed the defences  that New Orleans had.

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The morning after it happened, they'd even printed newspaper running the headlines that New Orleans had 'escaped' the and had missed the brunt of the storm. The hurricane wasn't what was the killer, it was the wave that formed out to see by the differences in pressure, which destroyed the under-developed and under-funded levys.

I don't really get how you can say "They should have left" when you haven't actually been in that position? If you had the risk of having everything you've got being taken away and you left with nothing, no roof over your head and no chance of getting another place, your attitude might be different. A lot of people stayed because they just prepared their houses for the hurricane, and people were largely OK after the hurricane. There weren't that many fatalities as a result of the hurricane, it's just the post-hurricane flooding that's killed more (and is STILL killing people).

[andyroo]

The morning after it happened, they'd even printed newspaper running the headlines that New Orleans had 'escaped' the and had missed the brunt of the storm.  The hurricane wasn't what was the killer, it was the wave that formed out to see by the differences in pressure, which destroyed the under-developed and under-funded levys.

I don't really get how you can say "They should have left" when you haven't actually been in that position?  If you had the risk of having everything you've got being taken away and you left with nothing, no roof over your head and no chance of getting another place, your attitude might be different.  A lot of people stayed because they just prepared their houses for the hurricane, and people were largely OK after the hurricane.  There weren't that many fatalities as a result of the hurricane, it's just the post-hurricane flooding that's killed more (and is STILL killing people).

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Better to be safe than sorry? I would rather spend a day or so homeless, to come back to my undamaged house after the storm had passed than to sit around and then be injured the storm and its effects. Proper preperation prevents poor performance, yeah?

For one uncomfortble night, you can save yourself and your family, I know thats what i'd do. I wouldnt sit around like a lemon.

[Mark W]

Better to be safe than sorry? I would rather spend a day or so homeless, to come back to my undamaged house after the storm had passed than to sit around and then be injured the storm and its effects. Proper preperation prevents poor performance, yeah?

For one uncomfortble night, you can save yourself and your family, I know thats what i'd do. I wouldnt sit around like a lemon.

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Like I said, the affected area was the size of the UK. Therefore, it's not "Being homeless" for a night if you can't travel anywhere, is it?

[andyroo]

Like I said, the affected area was the size of the UK.  Therefore, it's not "Being homeless" for a night if you can't travel anywhere, is it?

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They have buses they go on? In fact, if they had got a bus out of town, then got it back again, the time taken to get in and out would be enough for the danger, if any, to pass. The poorer people can afford the busses, because a lot of them have to travel hours and hours to get to work, on a bus. Its true, i saw on TV (Y)

EDIT: Most people would do anything to protect their families. I think this is one of of those "anything" kind of situations.

Edited September 7, 2005 by andyroo

[Mark W]

They have buses they go on? In fact, if they had got a bus out of town, then got it back again, the time taken to get in and out would be enough for the danger, if any, to pass. The poorer people can afford the busses, because a lot of them have to travel hours and hours to get to work, on a bus. Its true, i saw on TV (Y)

EDIT: Most people would do anything to protect their families. I think this is one of of those "anything" kind of situations.

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The use of the "?" at the end of the first sentence belies the fact that you know you're on sketchy ground there (Y)

And also, maybe they thought what they were doing was for the best? The storm HAD been downgraded, and the large majority were fine and survived the hurricane, it's been the lack of food/water/sanitation/medical care SINCE the flooding which followed the hurricane which has been the problem. So they were OK to stay there for the hurricane, it's just the wave which formed out to sea that f**ked them over, which most people seemed to think would be held back by the levys they had in place, as well as other flood defences.

Maybe all the people killed in the tsunami shouldn't have lived in that part of the world because they were told in the next 100 years there'd be a massive tsunami? You know, 'cos they'd want to protect their families?

[andyroo]

The use of the "?" at the end of the first sentence belies the fact that you know you're on sketchy ground there (Y)

And also, maybe they thought what they were doing was for the best?  The storm HAD been downgraded, and the large majority were fine and survived the hurricane, it's been the lack of food/water/sanitation/medical care SINCE the flooding which followed the hurricane which has been the problem.  So they were OK to stay there for the hurricane, it's just the wave which formed out to sea that f**ked them over, which most people seemed to think would be held back by the levys they had in place, as well as other flood defences.

Maybe all the people killed in the tsunami shouldn't have lived in that part of the world because they were told in the next 100 years there'd be a massive tsunami?  You know, 'cos they'd want to protect their families?

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Now your just being silly (Y) And anyway, if they had moved out or not, like you say it is very unpredictable, which means that the main point of George Bush being rascist is even more of a numpty thing to say... what im more interested in is peoples opinions, especially yours Mark, on whether Kanye was justified in saying what he did or if it was just innapropriate.

And im typing quick cos im at work and i shoudnt be on here (Y)

[yoyoyo]

Like I said, the affected area was the size of the UK.  Therefore, it's not "Being homeless" for a night if you can't travel anywhere, is it?

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I'm sure though that there would be peoplw who would take in people if they needed shelter

[Mark W]

Now your just being silly  (Y)  And anyway, if they had moved out or not, like you say it is very unpredictable, which means that the main point of George Bush being rascist is even more of a numpty thing to say... what im more interested in is peoples opinions, especially yours Mark, on whether Kanye was justified in saying what he did or if it was just innapropriate.

And im typing quick cos im at work and i shoudnt be on here  (Y)

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Haha (Y)

Now you're moving the goalposts a little :P

Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily say he was justified in saying it. I can see he was 'moved' by it, but I don't think celebrities should abuse their position to spout their not 100% grounded opinions on 'facts' and topical ideas. A lot of them simply don't know shit about anything that 'real' people go through, so they're not really in a position to say anything about it. Either way, I suppose it got people thinking and raised awareness of the "Give us your money" crew, so I suppose some good may have come from it...

Don't put "unpredictable" words into my mouth either you whore :P The weather forecasters have told everyone that it was gonna be fine (Think Fish with the 'great storm'. "It's just a small storm*" *Which is actually going to heinously rape a lot of the country), so their idea that it wasn't gonna be super harsh was based on what was thought to be fact, so they were misled to some extent, so it's not really their fault.

It does seem like Bush did f**k all to help them and still doesn't seem to be doing too much, so you can kinda see how they might think they were being overlooked, although saying it's just 'cos they're black is stretching it a little.

[Mark W]

I'm sure though that there would be peoplw who would take in people if they needed shelter

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There are several million people living in New Orleans and the surrounding affected area. Not only would there not be enough 'people who would take in people if they needed shelter", but like I said, the affected area is the size of the UK. If you lived right near the coast, you'd have to do the equivalent of going from Plymouth to Edinburgh in a very short space of time, with no real means of transport and no infrastructure or public service to help them get there...

[Tony Harrison]

What about going into the middle of a big field and then tying yourself to a stake? Still, there's the water to worry about.

More fool them for living below sea level.

[andyroo]

Haha (Y)

Now you're moving the goalposts a little (Y)

Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily say he was justified in saying it.  I can see he was 'moved' by it, but I don't think celebrities should abuse their position to spout their not 100% grounded opinions on 'facts' and topical ideas.  A lot of them simply don't know shit about anything that 'real' people go through, so they're not really in a position to say anything about it.  Either way, I suppose it got people thinking and raised awareness of the "Give us your money" crew, so I suppose some good may have come from it...

Don't put "unpredictable" words into my mouth either you whore :P  The weather forecasters have told everyone that it was gonna be fine (Think Fish with the 'great storm'.  "It's just a small storm*"  *Which is actually going to heinously rape a lot of the country), so their idea that it wasn't gonna be super harsh was based on what was thought to be fact, so they were misled to some extent, so it's not really their fault.

It does seem like Bush did f**k all to help them and still doesn't seem to be doing too much, so you can kinda see how they might think they were being overlooked, although saying it's just 'cos they're black is stretching it a little.

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They have buses there, they do! Just accept it! America's bus system is second to none, providing cheap, frequent transport across long distances...

But anyway, if the weather was deemed to be fine, and after the storm went everything was fine, then all of a sudden New Orleans is floating, preparing a search and rescue for a place the size of the UK (haha! im using your information against you! :P ) is going to be very tedious and very slow. I dont see how everyone expects the entire state of New Orleans to be provided with food, shelter, and medicine (they dont need water, they got enough of that (Y) ) in such a short space of time, being that there is millions of people living there.

If George Bush really was racist, I'm sure he wouldnt have sent any aid at all, along with a note saying "I told you so"

[yoyoyo]

There are several million people living in New Orleans and the surrounding affected area.  Not only would there not be enough 'people who would take in people if they needed shelter", but like I said, the affected area is the size of the UK.  If you lived right near the coast, you'd have to do the equivalent of going from Plymouth to Edinburgh in a very short space of time, with no real means of transport and no infrastructure or public service to help them get there...

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spose,

but on a different note why dont we send over a couple of choppers an evacuate people

[Mark W]

They have buses there, they do! Just accept it! America's bus system is second to none, providing cheap, frequent transport across long distances...

But anyway, if the weather was deemed to be fine, and after the storm went everything was fine, then all of a sudden New Orleans is floating, preparing a search and rescue for a place the size of the UK (haha! im using your information against you!  (Y) ) is going to be very tedious and very slow. I dont see how everyone expects the entire state of New Orleans to be provided with food, shelter, and medicine (they dont need water, they got enough of that  (Y) ) in such a short space of time, being that there is millions of people living there.

If George Bush really was racist, I'm sure he wouldnt have sent any aid at all, along with a note saying "I told you so"

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There's a difference between "it being slow" and "not doing anything for 5 days"...

The water's full of sewerage and shit anyway, which is also contributing to the problem.

But yeah, the main thing was that nothing was done for so long. I don't get why you're having a go at me with that "If George Bush really was racist, I'm sure he wouldnt have sent any aid at all, along with a note saying "I told you so"" when I've already said that I don't fully agree with Kanye West (Y)

[Josephine]

Where exactly? On a magical house on stilts? You seem to have missed the fact that this are is very low and very flat, where one house is destroyed thousands are along with it.

Joe

QUOTE(yoyoyo @ Sep 7 2005, 01:22 PM)

I'm sure though that there would be peoplw who would take in people if they needed shelter

*

Edited September 7, 2005 by Josephine

[andyroo]

There's a difference between "it being slow" and "not doing anything for 5 days"...

The water's full of sewerage and shit anyway, which is also contributing to the problem. 

But yeah, the main thing was that nothing was done for so long.  I don't get why you're having a go at me with that "If George Bush really was racist, I'm sure he wouldnt have sent any aid at all, along with a note saying "I told you so"" when I've already said that I don't fully agree with Kanye West (Y)

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It makes the thread more interesting! I'm sure George Bush's time was taken up by being racsist to the far eastern people, and his plans to blow them all up.

Maybe because there is no real racism towards black people anymore and that its all being directed to the far east, so they are getting a bit jealous, feeling a bit left out?

Wanting some attention maybe?

On a serious note, five days does seem like a long time, but for a rescue plan of that scale to be conjured up out of nowhere would take time. And its not like the Presidents time was free for those few days so he could plan it, he still has the rest of america to run as well. And oil to steal, and foriegn goverments to corrupt... etc

[Mark W]

It makes the thread more interesting! I'm sure George Bush's time was taken up by being racsist to the far eastern people, and his plans to blow them all up.

Maybe because there is no real racism towards black people anymore and that its all being directed to the far east, so they are getting a bit jealous, feeling a bit left out?

Wanting some attention maybe?

On a serious note, five days does seem like a long time, but for a rescue plan of that scale to be conjured up out of nowhere would take time. And its not like the Presidents time was free for those few days so he could plan it, he still has the rest of america to run as well. And oil to steal, and foriegn goverments to corrupt... etc

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The plans and rescue ideas had been drawn up previously. They had action plans they were supposed to follow. They'd drawn up some ideas because they'd had to prepare for a possibly levy break, simply because shit happens.

It has now though I guess...

George Bush was on holiday the week before it happened, and then after it happened for another 3 days (I think). He then went fundraising for the Bush administration (and no, not for the flood relief before you say that (Y)).

Ironically, the money to upgrade the levys was taken out of the account to fight the war in Iraq, so your "I'm sure George Bush's time was taken up by being racsist to the far eastern people, and his plans to blow them all up." is possibly accurate (Y)

[andyroo]

The plans and rescue ideas had been drawn up previously.  They had action plans they were supposed to follow.  They'd drawn up some ideas because they'd had to prepare for a possibly levy break, simply because shit happens.

It has now though I guess...

George Bush was on holiday the week before it happened, and then after it happened for another 3 days (I think).  He then went fundraising for the Bush administration (and no, not for the flood relief before you say that (Y)).

Ironically, the money to upgrade the levys was taken out of the account to fight the war in Iraq, so your "I'm sure George Bush's time was taken up by being racsist to the far eastern people, and his plans to blow them all up." is possibly accurate (Y)

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There you go then... the black people were starting to feel left out and were trying to find something to blame their lazyness on. :P

Naaah... I'm sure the general consensus of the New Orleans people is that George Bush is just narrow minded and obsessed with Iraq, not that he likes drowning black people for fun. I guess the influence Kanye has, has gone a little bit too much to his head...

I think I should be a senior member (Y)

EDIT: Missed an 's'

Edited September 7, 2005 by andyroo