Complete Lack Of Respect

[MadManMike]

not going to bring back the dead is it.

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Did anyone say it would?

It's respect. Still, it must be difficult to spare 2 minutes of your day ah?

[andyroo]

Did anyone say it would?

It's respect. Still, it must be difficult to spare 2 minutes of your day ah?

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Look on the bright side - the two minutes gave everyone's minute brain a chance to rest from being so overworked by being knob jockeys

[andyroo]

It's because Jews are semites. I don't know why they call it anti-semitim instead of racism, maybe it's because it's very common it gets it's own name?

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I'd say there was a few more black people that get abused by racism than there are Jews. And they don't get there own name...

Yes the whole issue is down to us wanting more, we want more of our land back, land that we were given by God.

Yeah, but God gave you Jesus too, look what you did with Him...

And He gave you the Ten Commandments, what happened to them...?

And why did you do that to all those Christians in Israel a few years back?

You're not so clean and spangly yourself you know

EDIT: Look what you've done, you've got me arguing now

Edited July 20, 2005 by andyroo

[MrMonkey]

I'd say there was a few more black people that get abused by racism than there are Jews. And they don't get there own name...

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Jews have been persecuted over thousands of years though. Black slavery didn't go on for that long.

[andyroo]

Jews have been persecuted over thousands of years though. Black slavery didn't go on for that long.

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Persecuted? Watch life of Brian....

"What have the romans ever done for us!?... Other than the roads, sanitation, public health, education, good food...etc"

Although the Romans occupied Jewish land, they allowed them to continue as normal, and the Jewish culture only suffered as much as every other culture under the hands of the Romans... like the whole of Europe and the east... :)

The Jews havent been singled out or persecuted any more than anyone else.

[andyroo]

Persecuted? Watch life of Brian....

"What have the romans ever done for us!?... Other than the roads, sanitation, public health, education, good food...etc"

Although the Romans occupied Jewish land, they allowed them to continue as normal, and the Jewish culture only suffered as much as every other culture under the hands of the Romans... like the whole of Europe and the east... :)

The Jews havent been singled out or persecuted any more than anyone else.

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Aaaaaaaaaaand.... more black people were killed than Jews in WW2 by German soldiers

[MrMonkey]

Aaaaaaaaaaand.... more black people were killed than Jews in WW2 by German soldiers

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1 war, or thousands of years of persecution.

[andyroo]

1 war, or thousands of years of persecution.

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Explain yourself a bit more there? Where over thousands of years, Jews were persecuted, so was every other country within 10,000 miles of Israel! Countries fought wars with each other all over the place! If you reckon that is persecution, then you would be saying that the British were persecuted by the French in the Napoleonic Wars???

The Jewish culture isnt as pathetic and feeble as the media makes out, they have survived different wars and conquerings, along with other cultures, and before world war 2, they were running most of and were the backbone of Germany, which was Hitler's reasoning behind getting rid of them because he thought they had too much power.

Edited July 20, 2005 by andyroo

[MrMonkey]

They were forced out of countries, I don't know details, I dunno where I heard it, I just remember it from a reliable source. TV or a Teacher.

[andyroo]

They were forced out of countries, I don't know details, I dunno where I heard it, I just remember it from a reliable source. TV or a Teacher.

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Yeah, as were all the surrounding countries and religions cultures or whatever, be it the Roman or Egyptians or whoever the latest world conquering yobs were. British people have been forced out of Britain. Native Americans were forced out of America. You only think it was the Jews and people only think that Jews were picked on in worrld war 2 because that is what Jewish religious leaders and the media wants you to think, for a sympathy plight. There are still a lot of Jews in high places, and Jewish groups have a lot of sway when it comes to decesions made in this country, and others.

You make it sound like the Jews were the only people ever to be in a war! It reminds me of when a pathetic girl starts limping because they tap their toe against something, and they say it really hurts, when the reality of it is, it only stings a bit, and you think to yourself, "I'll give you a good reason to limp..."

Edited July 20, 2005 by andyroo

[MrMonkey]

Yeah, as were all the surrounding countries and religions cultures or whatever, be it the Roman or Egyptians or whoever the latest world conquering yobs were. British people have been forced out of Britain. Native Americans were forced out of America. You only think it was the Jews and people only think that Jews were picked on in worrld war 2 because that is what Jewish religious leaders and the media wants you to think, for a sympathy plight. There are still a lot of Jews in high places, and Jewish groups have a lot of sway when it comes to decesions made in this country, and others.

You make it sound like the Jews were the only people ever to be in a war! It reminds me of when a pathetic girl starts limping because they tap their toe against something, and they say it really hurts, when the reality of it is, it only stings a bit, and you think to yourself, "I'll give you a good reason to limp..."

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No, I was comparing their persecution to black people. Not the world in general. Black people lived quite happily for a fair while, or am I wrong again?

[andyroo]

No, I was comparing their persecution to black people. Not the world in general. Black people lived quite happily for a fair while, or am I wrong again?

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They have been taken over by the same people who took over Jewish land, don't forget, Africa is next door to all the Arabic countries. They all suffered the same at the hands of the Romans, Egyptians, etc... and also black people have suffered from bad governments for a very long time.

To be honest, the Romans did a huge favour to most cultures, and gave them industries and order where they would otherwise resort to civil wars.

Like I said, Jews are the only ones that still go on about it. No one picks on them anymore, so they have to dig up the past and monitor text messages to actually get any sympathy

[delusional]

I think one of the reasons that anti-semitism is, and nearly always has been, such a big issue is due to the unique characteristic of Judaism. It's the only sociological grouping of people that I can think of that is still intrinsically linking racial and religious characteristics. How many other races can you think of that have a religion that is both unique to them and pretty much unanimously adhered to? Sure, many Jews of recent generations may not be practising, but it seems they largely still consider themselves a member of their religion, or at the least their parents are such, which still leaves them strongly linked to the religion.

Religion is a pretty strong bind between people, and when the members of that religion are nearly all bound by race as well and can trace the history of their religion/race back thousands of years, any persecution over that time will add up.

As it is, the Jews have been persecuted quite a bit over the centuries, although I'm sure quite a few of us would find a similar amount of persecution in our ancestry if we were able to trace it. However, not only can we not trace it easily, but much of that persecution was conducted against religious and/or racial groupings we which no longer align ourselves with, so it doesn't really seem related to us anymore.

[andyroo]

I think one of the reasons that anti-semitism is, and nearly always has been, such a big issue is due to the unique characteristic of Judaism. It's the only sociological grouping of people that I can think of that is still intrinsically linking racial and religious characteristics. How many other races can you think of that have a religion that is both unique to them and pretty much unanimously adhered to? Sure, many Jews of recent generations may not be practising, but it seems they largely still consider themselves a member of their religion, or at the least their parents are such, which still leaves them strongly linked to the religion.

Religion is a pretty strong bind between people, and when the members of that religion are nearly all bound by race as well and can trace the history of their religion/race back thousands of years, any persecution over that time will add up.

As it is, the Jews have been persecuted quite a bit over the centuries, although I'm sure quite a few of us would find a similar amount of persecution in our ancestry if we were able to trace it. However, not only can we not trace it easily, but much of that persecution was conducted against religious and/or racial groupings we which no longer align ourselves with, so it doesn't really seem related to us anymore.

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That could quite possibly be becaus Judaism is the only religion you have to be born into, and you can't join.... which kind of gives off the impression that God is an idiot, and only likes random people.

[ScotchDave]

Right this could take a while.

Holy crapsicles - Government In Done Something Bad Shocker! I'm not saying "we funded you" in a good way, I mean in the same way that we funded Iraqi's militants in the past. If you want to be associated with the Israeli government I guess you have to accept that THEY'VE done negative shit too, although no doubt you'll say it wasn't them...

No actually, I know the Israeli government has done some of bad things, but face it every government has, what I object to is the fact that everyone seems to point out what Israel does while ignoring the faults of almost every other government on this earth.

The territory is still blatantly bigger than it was before though, which is the point I was making. The excess area HAS been taken by force, and by hostilities, so it's a bit shit the way you're making them out to all be lovely gentle pacifists when blatantly some of them aren't. Equally, saying "You lot have done it" is totally missing the point - we're talking about Israel/Palestine here, which is a conflict which is pretty different to almost every recent conflict? Not to mention the fact that like I said, we're talking about it anyway...

Yes the territory was taken by force, you're in a war with a country which has attacked you, you repel them and your at their border, do you stop??? Hell no you keep on going, gives you something to bargain with after the war is over. Anyway you seem to have missed the fact that most of the territorial gains were against other arab nations rather than the palistinians. Also what's different about this conflict?? Also the vast majority of israelis want peace, they want to be left the f**k alone and yes some aren't but thats the same everywhere.

Yes the whole issue is down to us wanting more, we want more of our land back, land that we were given by G-d.

I can't really say much to some kinda f**ked up comment like "We were given it by God".

Fine you prefer this argument, we lived there before they did, they removed us through force.

I'm guessing the Palestinians too would say that the people from their end who keep attacking Israel were just 'extremists', yet you yourself are tarring all of them with the same brush?

No I'm not I met palestinians they were nice, one of my biggest gripes with the Israeli government right now is that it lets itself be influenced by these extremist groups.

I'm f**king fed up with all you shitty little kids turning up spouting a few so called facts and then not listening to the answer. I'm f**kign fed up with the fact that theres a f**kload of worse shit happening in the world right now, yet everyone focuses on Israel.

Using phrases involving 'given to us by a fictional, non-physical being' kinda limits the legitimacy of an 'answer' though. Again, this is my opinion, but there we go.

Well you have just broken the new "incitement to cause...blah blah laws" I don't think it's fiction, also that was more a reference to the little shits in my school who think they know it all and then refuse to listen to you. See above argument about land, also what the f**k has that got to do with that paragraph?

Why? "Because Israel should be better." Why the f**k should Israel be better than every other country in the world? In fact it's applying a different standard to the jewish state than to other states...Oh wait, what was that quote again "Anti semitism doesn't start with killing jews, it starts with applying different standards to them. "

I really don't have a f**king clue why you're ranting about people saying "Israel should be better", Div. I also don't really get why you seem to think everyone's picking on the Jews (like when you said before you thought the Edgware bombing was to do with the fact there were Jews there or something like that), which it seems like the above paragraph was all about.

Again more of a reference to little shits in school, but the fact of the matter all you f**kers always pick on us, always have and I'm f**king sick of it. Part of it is the way the news here always focuses on Israel's faults, but almost never anywhere else, hence you lot grow up feeling Israel is bad, which it isn't. Also I though that the bomb in Edgeware may have been in Edgeware itself (apparently it isn't) and since I assumed it was Al Qaeda (and have been vindicated) so was proposing the idea that there are many many jews in Edgeware so the terrorists thought "ah, even better we can kill a fair few jews".

If you need more debateage add me to MSN, I'm fed up with typing lectures. If you want advice on good books about the topic, send me a PM, I don't like typing simply because it's hard for me.

To be honest, I can't really be arsed. Like I said, when it gets into "God says we're right", I just lose interest

You think I don't groan every time I see another f**king post from you or one of the lot like you, but I see it as my moral duty to reply and waste my time trying to bring some common sense to the world, now if you want to carry this on you'll have to wait a month becaue: I am leaving tomorrow, I will not be back for a month ok, so if you want to carry on spouting anti israel tripe I suggest you wait for me to get back and debate it with you

Edited July 20, 2005 by div

[andyroo]

Right this could take a while...

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From the amount of swearing youve done, and the criticisms towards people, youve already broken two of your own commandments.

Being that you can't even act how you should act as a Jew, and how freely you break the rules given to you by God, I'd say your opinion is somewhat null and void.

All I'll say is that it says in your own Torah, that Moses led the Jewish people from Eygypt to the promised land... and took it over. So Israel isnt yours at all, is it?

How can a people only 12 million strong make such a big stink

[ScotchDave]

From the amount of swearing youve done, and the criticisms towards people, youve already broken two of your own commandments.

Being that you can't even act how you should act as a Jew, and how freely you break the rules given to you by God, I'd say your opinion is somewhat null and void.

All I'll say is that it says in your own Torah, that Moses led the Jewish people from Eygypt to the promised land... and took it over. So Israel isnt yours at all, is it?

How can a people only 12 million strong make such a big stink

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Swearing is not forbidden, that's a christian interpretation, swearing on G-d's name is forbidden. Check before typing you numpty.

I act like a jew should, how can you tell me to behave when your so called messiah, quoted my rabbi's and stole the credit for their principles?

It says in the torah that they took the promised land under G-d's instruction, and anyway, if you read the torah you should know abraham came from there.

[Mark W]

They took it under God's instruction? Again, to an aetheist like me that totally undermines your arguement anyway. You might 'groan' every time me or 'someone like' me posts - I haven't said anything like that, I just said taht saying "God said it" or shit like that is the weakest form of arguement imaginable. It's like the ultimate cop-out. Ah well, we all have different beliefs I guess. Cuss me and call me a sinner or whatever the f**k you want to do. Have fun with that and your seeming persecution complex.

Oh, and making your text bigger and bolder doesn't make you right, in the same way that just because there's a book written about it it doesn't mean it's true.

Joy.

[andyroo]

They took it under God's instruction?  Again, to an aetheist like me that totally undermines your arguement anyway.  You might 'groan' every time me or 'someone like' me posts - I haven't said anything like that, I just said taht saying "God said it" or shit like that is the weakest form of arguement imaginable.  It's like the ultimate cop-out.  Ah well, we all have different beliefs I guess.  Cuss me and call me a sinner or whatever the f**k you want to do.  Have fun with that and your seeming persecution complex.

Oh, and making your text  bigger and bolder doesn't make you right, in the same way that just because there's a book written about it it doesn't mean it's true.

Joy.

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Remember, those suicide bombers did what they did because "God said it"

[ScotchDave]

They took it under God's instruction?  Again, to an aetheist like me that totally undermines your arguement anyway.  You might 'groan' every time me or 'someone like' me posts - I haven't said anything like that, I just said taht saying "God said it" or shit like that is the weakest form of arguement imaginable.  It's like the ultimate cop-out.  Ah well, we all have different beliefs I guess.  Cuss me and call me a sinner or whatever the f**k you want to do.  Have fun with that and your seeming persecution complex.

Oh, and making your text  bigger and bolder doesn't make you right, in the same way that just because there's a book written about it it doesn't mean it's true.

Joy.

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I only groan because I then feel I need to waste time arguing.

Now I don't go around preteding to be perfect, as far as I'm concerned you seem alright, therefore no problem with you. So what if you sin, so do I, everyone who says they don't is lying. I only try to minimise my sins.

Also I believe in G-d, but if you don't like that answer theres another one in my last post, and I can give you another one, abraham was displaced through violence, jews returned from egypt, displaced locals, they displaced us, we displaced them....... It goes on like that, as far as I'm concerned I want a safe Israel, I'd love to have a one state solution with Jews and arabs united. But I fear it will never happen. :blink:

I only made writing big because sometimes people miss important things like the fact I'm not gonna be here and I'm not belittling the suffering of blacks, and that I feel very strongly that Andy isn't right.

Remember, those suicide bombers did what they did because "God said it"

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No they did it because they think G-d said so, because their priests tell them so.

Just like you belive in Jesus.

EDIT not slagging christians in any way here.

Edited July 20, 2005 by div

[Mark W]

Actually, it was 'cos they believed in the after-life, and therefore thought that by doing what they did they'd be able to get to be with Allah (can't remember the Islamic version of the idea of "heaven"). Therefore, it was a selfish act because they wanted to have a decent after-life.

Note the connection between the fact they did that act because it'd get them into the after-life, then the fact that the whole 10 Commandments and basically everything in the Bible (and in nearly every holy book) is all about how to lead a good life so you'd get into Heaven. So actually, it's breeding selfishness, as opposed to altruism. Go reward schemes \o/

[ScotchDave]

Yeah but they believe that blowing themselvs up will get them into "paradise" because their priests tell them so, but the Koran states suicide is a sin, so does the Torah, which the muslims in my school say they believe in.

Get what I mean?

Also above post EDITED.

EDIT, Mark, you speaketh the truth. :blink: On this matter anyway. :lol:

Edited July 20, 2005 by div

[andyroo]

I only groan because I then feel I need to waste  time arguing.

Now I don't go around preteding to be perfect, as far as I'm concerned you seem alright, therefore no problem with you. So what if you sin, so do I, everyone who says they don't is lying. I only try to minimise my sins.

Also I believe in G-d, but if you don't like that answer theres another one in my last post, and I can give you another one, abraham was displaced through violence, jews returned from egypt, displaced locals, they displaced us, we displaced them....... It goes on like that, as far as I'm concerned I want a safe Israel, I'd love to have a one state solution with Jews and arabs united. But I fear it will never happen. :blink:

I only made writing big because sometimes people miss important things like the fact I'm not gonna be here and I'm not belittling the suffering of blacks, and that I feel very strongly that Andy isn't right.

No they did it because they think G-d said so, because their priests tell them so.

Just like you belive in Jesus.

EDIT not slagging christians in any way here.

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In the end we believe in the same God, just at a different slant. Well, when we're both in heaven (hopefully!) we'll meet up, and one of us can say, "I told you so...!"

[ScotchDave]

In the end we believe in the same God, just at a different slant. Well, when we're both in heaven (hopefully!) we'll meet up, and one of us can say, "I told you so...!"

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With any luck, anyways, we don't really believe in hell like you do.

I wished life were more simple, none of this "you have to be X, Y, Z to get to heaven" you live your life the right way, use your common sense and get on with it. If you knowingly break a law you repent etc etc

Also quick question do christians believe in the other 603 commandments??

[MrMonkey]

Why can't we Atheists have a heaven. It sucks. You guys know you're going somewhere, the emptyness I think is going to be after death is a true burden, I would rather know I was going to suffer eternal damnation than know there would be nothing.