Complete Lack Of Respect

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

Er... Do you ever watch TV? When some one dies in Arabic countries, the parents/relations run around with the body, hollering and screaming and crying and wailing and just generally being loud. So yeah, they do.

oh of course , how could i forget that that was a national two minute silence *duh!* (Y)

[andyroo]

umm, they make up something like 6% of the population dont they, sounds like a minority to me.....

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London is the most expensive area in the whole of England to live in. In London, people of white ethnicity are the minority, and that is fact. Their are more Asians and Africans in the rich capital of England than any other race.

So, that just furthers my point.

And Div, yeah, when a terrorist bombs a school bus or something, you see all the women wailing and the men jumping up and down in their typical mourning tradition.

And Daaaahnwotsit, the tradition here for morning is silent respect, the tradition their is to scream and shout. but it means the same thing, in the same way Christmas is celebrated in different ways all round the world but has the same meaning.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

ahh , they celebrate the persons life , not grieve the death

[MrMonkey]

Your Maths is a tad off there Monkey, assuming the population is around 60,000,000 6% comes up as 3,600,00. Which sounds more like it.

Joe

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Bah, I just thought of 1,000,000 and did 1%, couldn't be bothered with anything else.

[andyroo]

ahh , they celebrate the persons life , not grieve the death

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Youre right, look at their happy faces...

[ScotchDave]

London is the most expensive area in the whole of England to live in. In London, people of white ethnicity are the minority, and that is fact. Their are more Asians and Africans in the rich capital of England than any other race.

So, that just furthers my point.

And Div, yeah, when a terrorist bombs a school bus or something, you see all the women wailing and the men jumping up and down in their typical mourning tradition.

And Daaaahnwotsit, the tradition here for morning is silent respect, the tradition their is to scream and shout. but it means the same thing, in the same way Christmas is celebrated in different ways all round the world but has the same meaning.

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Andy, that pic is of palestinians you numpty. In israel people get on with it, live life and pray for peace. As opposed to blowing up randomers.

[andyroo]

Andy, that pic is of palestinians you numpty. In israel people get on with it, live life and pray for peace. As opposed to blowing up randomers.

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Were not talking about Israel though are we? Or are we!? (N)

Anywho, my point is that in these kind of places, when there is a bomb attack, they don't just carry on thinking, "Oh for goodness sake stop all that racket", they do mourn and pay their respects

[MadManMike]

LOL Div, give him an A* for effort though?

(N)

[Mark W]

Andy, that pic is of palestinians you numpty. In israel people get on with it,

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...and plan the revenge attacks?

Don't give me shit about "That never happens", 'cos it f**king does. Generally, it'll go:

Ceasefire.

Israel/Palestine happens to kill someone (seems to always be on the border...)

Palestine/Israel does a revenge attack.

etc.

And dude, that IS what happens. I would say "It's blatantly obvious if you watch the news" but you'd probably say they were biased or some shit like that... Ah well. Palestine have said they'll cease all hostilities if Israel goes back to the agreed size of land as laid down in the mid-forties treaty. But no, they won't. C'est la vie I guess.

[ScotchDave]

Mark, have you seen the proposed map of israel from the 1940's?

I can safely say that NO country would agree to that, it's insane at one point the whole country is stupidly narrow, 14 km, you could walk that in a day. A real security risk.

Israel plans revenge attacks? I'd say more the Israeli army goes out and arrests someone.

And anyway, the news is blatantly biased. B)

I think this needs to be taken to MSN. (N)"

[the_soon_to_be]

the only reason they got 2 min silence is because of the amount of press couverage, bombs go off everyday, but it was in london which is mean't to be the bak bone of england, if i and rest of my family dropped dead tommorrow totaling up t 50 we wound gett no silence, they did not die for a reason they were wrong place at wrong time. The people that make the difference are the living bus drivers that drover their busses on the same day, they desirve our respect

by all means mourn and stuff but we have 2 min silence for 2 world war where 1000's died london bombing has no comparision and the soliders died for a reason

just my views

[Mark W]

Mark, have you seen the proposed map of israel from the 1940's?

I can safely say that NO country would agree to that, it's insane at one point the whole country is stupidly narrow, 14 km, you could walk that in a day. A real security risk.

Israel plans revenge attacks? I'd say more the Israeli army goes out and arrests someone.

And anyway, the news is blatantly biased. :-

I think this needs to be taken to MSN. :P"

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The newly-created Israelis however DID agree to it, then got funded and armed by us and the US (and a select few other countries), then decided to take more of Palestine. So the whole issue there is down to them wanting more, despite agreeing to what they had. This isn't opinion, this is fact. Compare the proposed site to the one now and you will see that their territory HAS expanded, and seeing as the coalition who were trying to sort out a place for the Jews to go to just chose Palestine themselves, it seems like a bit of a shitty deal to the Palestines. And yes, there are constantly revenge attacks. The militants even call them revenge attacks. You can't possibly expect me to believe there aren't when there blatantly are!

[Si-man]

Our train to morecambe was delayed by two mins because of it.

Forgot to do the silence but nevermind, not going to bring back the dead is it.

[delusional]

Going back on topic for a minute, something that was quoted from several people last Thursday and I think is fairly poignant:

"At 12:00 BST today, London and many around the world observed a two minute silence for the 48 people who died in the terrorist attacks on London on 7 July.

During those two minutes, approximately 42 children worldwide died due to poverty.

We are not going to let terrorists cause us to lose perspective."

[MrMonkey]

Going back on topic for a minute, something that was quoted from several people last Thursday and I think is fairly poignant:

"At 12:00 BST today, London and many around the world observed a two minute silence for the 48 people who died in the terrorist attacks on London on 7 July.

During those two minutes, approximately 42 children worldwide died due to poverty.

We are not going to let terrorists cause us to lose perspective."

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We can't start a fight with poverty though can we.

[Mark W]

Haha, reminds me of the South Park episode where Russell Crowe is trying to start a fight with someone bigger than him. It's something like...

Russell Crowe: "I've decided I'm going to fight cancer."

Later on.

Russell Crowe: "I couldn't find cancer, so I'm going to fight someone with cancer."

[Tomm]

We can't start a fight with poverty though can we.

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I think it's pretty stupid to think we can fight terrorism with Tanks, but obviously the government knows better :P

Russell Crowe:  "I've decided I'm going to fight cancer."

Later on.

Russell Crowe:  "I couldn't find cancer, so I'm going to fight someone with cancer."

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Haha :-

[Mark W]

I think it's pretty stupid to think we can fight terrorism with Tanks, but obviously the government knows better  :P

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After Afghanistan, you'd have thought they'd have learnt that the weird men with a goat in some caves typically beat the billions (probably trillions) of dollars/pounds of military hardware :-\ Still seem to think "More money = more success" though.

[andyroo]

After Afghanistan, you'd have thought they'd have learnt that the weird men with a goat in some caves typically beat the billions (probably trillions) of dollars/pounds of military hardware :P\  Still seem to think "More money = more success" though.

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Vietnam would be a good example of that... America and all their kit beaten by about five farmers

[ScotchDave]

The newly-created Israelis however DID agree to it, then got funded and armed by us and the US (and a select few other countries), then decided to take more of Palestine.  So the whole issue there is down to them wanting more, despite agreeing to what they had.  This isn't opinion, this is fact.  Compare the proposed site to the one now and you will see that their territory HAS expanded, and seeing as the coalition who were trying to sort out a place for the Jews to go to just chose Palestine themselves, it seems like a bit of a shitty deal to the Palestines.  And yes, there are constantly revenge attacks.  The militants even call them revenge attacks.  You can't possibly expect me to believe there aren't when there blatantly are!

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Incorrect, they accepted it on the proviso that they would be left alone, before the UN resolution was passed there were already bombs falling on Jerusalem's Jewish quarter. Also the palestinians never accepted the treaty, so it was pointless. They then refused to sit down around a table to discuss the matter for a number, the extent of negotiations at the UN were "we want all the jews out of "palestine"".

Also you lot have a f**king cheek saying you funded us, you lot of bastards left a whole bus-full of doctors and nurses to die when you could have stopped it.

If you want to be associated with the british government of the 1940's you have to accept that and many other terrible things.

Anyway, the only time that territory has been expanded is when an arab country attacked Israel and they got whipped, so therefore Israel invaded part of their country which they don't use for anything other than shelling Jews. Which as far as I'm concerned is legitimate, seeing as "you lot" have done it before.

Also we "chose" the land we have prayed to return to for a good thousand years, when we were pushed out do you think it wasn't a shitty deal then? Anyway the only reason the palestinians are in the state they are now is that they were stubborn and the arab countries didn't help them. 600,000 palestinians "fled" Israel, 600,000 jews fled arab countries, do the maths.

Yes the whole issue is down to us wanting more, we want more of our land back, land that we were given by G-d. But we also want peace, I would happily live in a country with "palestinians".

Thing is these militants, I suppose you mean the extremist settlers, are not representative of Israel, in fact the organisations most of these people are loyal to are illegal.

I'm f**king fed up with all you shitty little kids turning up spouting a few so called facts and then not listening to the answer. I'm f**kign fed up with the fact that theres a f**kload of worse shit happening in the world right now, yet everyone focuses on Israel.

Why? "Because Israel should be better." Why the f**k should Israel be better than every other country in the world? In fact it's applying a different standard to the jewish state than to other states...Oh wait, what was that quote again "Anti semitism doesn't start with killing jews, it starts with applying different standards to them. (Y) "

If you need more debateage add me to MSN, I'm fed up with typing lectures. If you want advice on good books about the topic, send me a PM, I don't like typing simply because it's hard for me.

Edited July 19, 2005 by div

[andyroo]

How come any sort of negative racial remark is called "racist" with the whole world except Jewd, who get there own special word, "anti semitic"?

This place and this world are full of whingers, its like a a sympathy competition of "look and see who is worst off, and give them attention"

Why should I feel guilty about the rest of the world because im a white middle class man, and not some flea bitten starving person in the middle of nowhere? Should I bring myself down to the worst level in the world, just so those who dont have what i have can feel better? Or is that just silly? Would everyone just end up dead? People whinge when people help the poor and needy, and the same people whinge when they dont.

Cant everyone just shut up and talk about things that make them happy and make others happy? The whole "do to your neighbour as you would have done to yourself" applies here. If you dont want someone arguing with you because your a Jew, dont argue with them because they like the Spice Girls.

Britain is so political and edgy, why do we, who no nothing at all of worldly affairs except what is spoonfed to us by the media have such hot opinions on it? We swear and rant on defending something that tomorrow we wont even think twice about.

Political convorsations are always going to end up in arguement, they do in the house of commons, so why not here? it only goes to show that politics is crap. So can we just drop any political ideas or topics please?

If you want to post something political, plesae think twice cos it just turns into a mess, just like the world and its politics.

[ScotchDave]

It's because Jews are semites. I don't know why they call it anti-semitim instead of racism, maybe it's because it's very common it gets it's own name?

[delusional]

How come any sort of negative racial remark is called "racist" with the whole world except Jewd, who get there own special word, "anti semitic"?

This place and this world are full of whingers, its like a a sympathy competition of "look and see who is worst off, and give them attention"

Why should I feel guilty about the rest of the world because im a white middle class man, and not some flea bitten starving person in the middle of nowhere? Should I bring myself down to the worst level in the world, just so those who dont have what i have can feel better? Or is that just silly? Would everyone just end up dead? People whinge when people help the poor and needy, and the same people whinge when they dont.

Cant everyone just shut up and talk about things that make them happy and make others happy? The whole "do to your neighbour as you would have done to yourself" applies here. If you dont want someone arguing with you because your a Jew, dont argue with them because they like the Spice Girls.

Britain is so political and edgy, why do we, who no nothing at all of worldly affairs except what is spoonfed to us by the media have such hot opinions on it? We swear and rant on defending something that tomorrow we wont even think twice about.

Political convorsations are always going to end up in arguement, they do in the house of commons, so why not here? it only goes to show that politics is crap. So can we just drop any political ideas or topics please?

If you want to post something political, plesae think twice cos it just turns into a mess, just like the world and its politics.

So you think we should just ignore all the problems in the world, never talk about the bad things and as such, never learn from the mistakes of the past?

For anything to change we have to be aware of the problems - we aren't going to become aware of these problems if we only ever talk about 'happy things'. For there to be action there first has to be discussion.

The reason you're able to live your comfortable middle class existence, free of starvation, chronic disease and war is because people were able to discuss and argue with each other to structure the relatively comfortable society you prosper from. That doesn't mean you should "bring [yourself] down to the worst level in the world", however in my opinion it does give you some responsibility to try and bring those at such low levels up to the same level of comfort we all enjoy.

[andyroo]

So you think we should just ignore all the problems in the world, never talk about the bad things and as such, never learn from the mistakes of the past?

For anything to change we have to be aware of the problems - we aren't going to become aware of these problems if we only ever talk about 'happy things'. For there to be action there first has to be discussion.

The reason you're able to live your comfortable middle class existence, free of starvation, chronic disease and war is because people were able to discuss and argue with each other to structure the relatively comfortable society you prosper from. That doesn't mean you should "bring [yourself] down to the worst level in the world", however in my opinion it does give you some responsibility to try and bring those at such low levels up to the same level of comfort we all enjoy.

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I was talking about on this forum, not the world in general (Y)

[Mark W]

Also you lot have a f**king cheek saying you funded us, you lot of bastards left a whole bus-full of doctors and nurses to die when you could have stopped it.

If you want to be associated with the british government of the 1940's you have to accept that and many other terrible things.

Holy crapsicles - Government In Done Something Bad Shocker!  I'm not saying "we funded you" in a good way, I mean in the same way that we funded Iraqi's militants in the past.  If you want to be associated with the Israeli government I guess you have to accept that THEY'VE done negative shit too, although no doubt you'll say it wasn't them...

Anyway, the only time that territory has been expanded is when an arab country attacked Israel and they got whipped, so therefore Israel invaded part of their country which they don't use for anything other than shelling Jews. Which as far as I'm concerned is legitimate, seeing as "you lot" have done it before.

The territory is still blatantly bigger than it was before though, which is the point I was making.  The excess area HAS been taken by force, and by hostilities, so it's a bit shit the way you're making them out to all be lovely gentle pacifists when blatantly some of them aren't.  Equally, saying "You lot have done it" is totally missing the point - we're talking about Israel/Palestine here, which is a conflict which is pretty different to almost every recent conflict?  Not to mention the fact that like I said, we're talking about it anyway...

Yes the whole issue is down to us wanting more, we want more of our land back, land that we were given by G-d.

I can't really say much to some kinda f**ked up comment like "We were given it by God".

Thing is these militants, I suppose you mean the extremist settlers, are not representative of Israel, in fact the organisations most of these people are loyal to are illegal.

I'm guessing the Palestinians too would say that the people from their end who keep attacking Israel were just 'extremists', yet you yourself are tarring all of them with the same brush?

I'm f**king fed up with all you shitty little kids turning up spouting a few so called facts and then not listening to the answer. I'm f**kign fed up with the fact that theres a f**kload of worse shit happening in the world right now, yet everyone focuses on Israel.

Using phrases involving 'given to us by a fictional, non-physical being' kinda limits the legitimacy of an 'answer' though.  Again, this is my opinion, but there we go.

Why? "Because Israel should be better." Why the f**k should Israel be better than every other country in the world? In fact it's applying a different standard to the jewish state than to other states...Oh wait, what was that quote again "Anti semitism doesn't start with killing jews, it starts with applying different standards to them. (Y) "

I really don't have a f**king clue why you're ranting about people saying "Israel should be better", Div.  I also don't really get why you seem to think everyone's picking on the Jews (like when you said before you thought the Edgware bombing was to do with the fact there were Jews there or something like that), which it seems like the above paragraph was all about.

If you need more debateage add me to MSN, I'm fed up with typing lectures. If you want advice on good books about the topic, send me a PM, I don't like typing simply because it's hard for me.

To be honest, I can't really be arsed. Like I said, when it gets into "God says we're right", I just lose interest.

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