JT! Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Doesn't work for them. Won't work for us. (At JT, in that Phil's just split the posts up (Y)) ← Haha :D I'm not just saying hide from the fact that it's a problem, it is a problem, but it's never going to be solved or people comming to any kind of agreement, might aswell argue about whats better, street or natural. So just don't bother, it's a waste of time, and it will slightly decrease the length of your keyboard. Just don't bother. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan@Trials-uk Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Seriously, that'd last for about... 2 days, maybe 3? People just wouldn't keep paying in month after month with the sort of volume of cash that is generated from banner sales, so it just wouldn't work. That wouldn't work, as we've already seen. I'm not having a go at James here, but James has put up - in that GU thread for example - "A little birdy told me you can get them from Selectbikes, but they've only got 5 in" or whatever. Basically, it'd just end up with that x10 if the advertisers themselves weren't allowed to say anything. It'd just end up being proper wank, which is why Danny and Tom are trying to sort out some new rules now. However, it's tricky, because as I said - people will always try and f**k them over. It's pretty ironic how people don't seem to realise that without T-F, they would go under. Tartybikes, Selectbikes and other similar companies wouldn't exist if it wasn't for T-F (or if they did, they wouldn't generate half the amount of business they do), yet there seems to be sketchiness involved from everyone in terms of undercutting the rules, which is basically shooting themselves in the foot. Ah well. Dan Ko is already pretty heavily clamped down on after his shady dealings with a) paying people to advertise for him, and (Y) getting loads of people to get Viz avatars then post in every thread even partially resembling a trials thread "Viz _____ are great. Get them from Dan Ko <insert Dan's e-mail address>." Also, Dan has tried to buy a banner but there isn't any banner space free any more (or something - I can't remember what exactly, although I'm pretty sure Danny told me that). Snuffing out smaller businesses that can't afford to buy banners would also be shit. Tom has already said that he could potentially get bigger companies to pay more for advertising banners, which in turn would rule out Tartybikes, Selectbikes and whoever else currently has a banner (I don't know 'cos NIS turns off banners, so I didn't know we had a P-X banner for 4 months...). That again would be counter-productive. Anyway, basically, this is all about how Tom and Danny want to run their forum, so there's no sense in us typing so much we piss blood without their input, so until anyone hear's more FROM THEM, I guess these threads are pretty redundant. ← Onzaboy, I don’t think that I have paid people in anyway to make a post for me, so before you accuse me for doing this, please find some prove. :) And for the avatars I have not told anyone to use the “V!Z” logo for there personal avatars. It is their choice if they want to. Banner’s, I have asked several times before that I am willing to pay for a banner, but I never got a reply about it. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Hey Phil, should have a PM if you didn't notice it :) Anyway, as you said - random forum members are fine to post up info. If they didn't, the forum would just die. Simple as that, really. The thing is is that like Tart posting a link to Bikedock, he isn't affiliated with them, so it's just helping people out. That's a crappy example on my part, but it's from "life" so it works I guess. Anyway, random forum members are fine to do it, which is where the problem lies. It's just when team riders start donig the sales pitches where the company owners can't that it gets into the grey area, just because they are theoretically affiliated to the company, and stand to gain if you make the sale (metaphorical "you", not you you, Phil (Y)). ← So all this is James fault over 1 post, although tarty was moaning about my post? Tut tut. Again, whatever James wants to say is up to him, maybe you should talk to him, on the forum he is still james_porter, if he wants to put "I'm using some stem I got from selectbikes, and it's the best Ive had" that's fine in my books, even if it had another shop name in there, again it's all over the forum and it doesnt matter if it's james porter or random joe, it's still the same. You could say a lot of people support certain shops, you see it in everybodys signatures, then you read other posts by them, and you see them supporting a shop and basically advertising that shop, it seems exactly the same to me. (another word for this may be bumming :D" ) Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Hey Dan. I've unfortunately not got MSN logs turned on, so I don't have the MSN conversations saved. Also, I can't remember the posts in which they said they got a discount for mentioning Viz. I guess it's unfair I keep using you as an example, so I'll try and stop doing it. It was just that it seemed like the examples involving Viz in general seemed to fit what I was trying to say. Sucks, I suppose, but there we go. No issue with Viz avatars either, apart from confusing the tats off of me when I'm trying to work out who's posting. From what I can remember Danny saying, there aren't any more banners available. Er, that should be "Not enough banner space available", to make more sense :) So yeah, anyway, I won't use Viz as an example again Dan seeing as I guess it was out of order... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Onzaboy, I don’t think that I have paid people in anyway to make a post for me, so before you accuse me for doing this, please find some prove. :) And for the avatars I have not told anyone to use the “V!Z” logo for there personal avatars. It is their choice if they want to. Banner’s, I have asked several times before that I am willing to pay for a banner, but I never got a reply about it. :D ← You stay out of this, you have been convicted and found guilty, don't make it worse for yourself. Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 So all this is James fault over 1 post, although tarty was moaning about my post? Tut tut. Again, whatever James wants to say is up to him, maybe you should talk to him, on the forum he is still james_porter, if he wants to put "I'm using some stem I got from selectbikes, and it's the best Ive had" that's fine in my books, even if it had another shop name in there, again it's all over the forum and it doesnt matter if it's james porter or random joe, it's still the same. ← Again, Phil, I'm not having a dig or having a go at James or whatever. I was just using it as an example. The thing is is that it IS different is a sponsored rider is trying to direct people to their sponsor's shop. James saying "Yeah, Selectbikes have 7 Kit-Kats" is different to me saying it because he is, due to his sponsorship, effectively part of Selectbikes. I know it's all pedantic and stuff, but people do seem to try and blag more publicity for their sponsors. This is kinda to be expected I suppose, but what I'm getting at is that the rules are to try and stop this sort of thing happening, so there's more unbiased views on the forum. Also, it'll stop it just being matches between riders for X and riders for Y, to some extent. Anyway, don't take my word for any of this shiz, 'cos like I said, it's Danny and Tom's house so it's their rules... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 i thought that people like phil tart and barbera and fred etc etc paid for advertising. which i think then would be fair. this bullshit bout other people putting posts up if someone says how good or whats this like if phil or anyone else for that matter rides on i dont see how he could have a problem with replying? even if he does say he stocks them, thats how it should be, if someone asked me where to get and echo or zoo i have always said select bikes, its not as if i can get them through aire valley is it???? where do you get koxx from mister? o i just go to france and pick them up, do you want me to bring you one over next time???? no need just give the relevant details and we can stop all the petty poopooo????simple or what????????? but yes Tom i was pissed off about a year to 8months ago as i was advising people and putting aire valley down and getting cruisified so i stopped cos it was just a pain in the back side. now il advise people and just say go here here or here. Waynio................................. see yet again the advertising part can get too political........ so let us not have it political, why do you think that people like phil from selcet bikes and fred from koxx uk and barbara from cleasnbike ssponsor people???? for the good of their health and living???? no they do it as they want publicity while riding and want them to give feedback and advice on here so people will buy their products FROM THEM not from some other country where its the cheapest or summit daft........... any one get that? if you dont understand it then it dunt matter. but i think i will see alot more people getting the drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picki Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 We should be helping eachother enjoy this sport and make its easier for eachother to get parts/gear/info. Soon were gonna be bound by soo much legal crap are posts are going to be all the same. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 why not just let people who buy the banners be able to put up advertisements in threads and those who haven't bought one cant. Then there is still incentive for people to buy the banners but also extra incentive because they can then advertise separately in threads. i for one would like to see companies advertising in threads because then you can hear whatever is being released from the producers mouth and not some little kid saying how shit viz products are because there not onza or whatever. theres my 2 pence not intended to offend anyone. guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunkey_monkey_boy Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 why not just let people who buy the banners be able to put up advertisements in threads and those who haven't bought one cant. Then there is still incentive for people to buy the banners but also extra incentive because they can then advertise separately in threads. i for one would like to see companies advertising in threads because then you can hear whatever is being released from the producers mouth and not some little kid saying how shit viz products are because there not onza or whatever. theres my 2 pence not intended to offend anyone. guy ← i'm in 100% total agreement with this idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 I don't think it's a particularly good idea to give a black cheque to Adam or Phil ( or *Shudders* Dan Ko!) in terms of advertising - every thread will be an advert! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIX Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 I agree also, its good to be able to chat to the manufacture/company about their products so that you get the info from the horses mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTM Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 This seems to definately be a grey area. Dan Ko has BLATENTLY done numerous things in the passed to qualify for warnings. Phil is right though, Selectbikes.com and Tartybikes are plastered everywhere. Pretty much every zoo and echo frame will have come from them, not to mention all the parts. Being one of phils mates, knowing that he does a good service to people, and to no benefit to myself, I could go into every product topic and put "Buy it from selectbikes" etc. And where would things stand on that? Most people know I ride with phil, and I buy things from him and want his shop to do well. But if he doesnt ask or tell me to post positve comments for him then im ok? Doesnt seem like this is actually a solveable problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunkey_monkey_boy Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 I don't think it's a particularly good idea to give a black cheque to Adam or Phil ( or *Shudders* Dan Ko!) in terms of advertising - every thread will be an advert! :) ← every thread wouldn't be an advert because phil and adam are grown up enough not to turn TF into a tartybikes/selectbikes advertising board. as far as i can see thats the simplest way of allowing paying advertisers advertise their goods and getting the info to the riders straight from the horses (or lanky gingers) mouth :D hopefully tom and danny will read this thread and take into consideration the coments that have been posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotchDave Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 why not just let people who buy the banners be able to put up advertisements in threads and those who haven't bought one cant. Then there is still incentive for people to buy the banners but also extra incentive because they can then advertise separately in threads. i for one would like to see companies advertising in threads because then you can hear whatever is being released from the producers mouth and not some little kid saying how shit viz products are because there not onza or whatever. theres my 2 pence not intended to offend anyone. guy ← Oner problem, Dan Ko wants a banner but can't get one cos theres none left, tis then unfair on him. :)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Oner problem, Dan Ko wants a banner but can't get one cos theres none left, tis then unfair on him. :blink:" ← Tell him to talk to Danny or Tom then. If there's Google ads (there are), it means that there is banner space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Poyzer @ Onza Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Just a suggestion, but would it not be possible to start a new product/ product news section and make it access only to manufacturers, distributors etc. who pay a subscription to gain access and allow them to post whatever they like about their brands and products. Normal members can read whatever attracts their eye and and find all information they need about their particular interest. We are happy because we can put up information as it happens. Banner adverts by their very nature are random, vague and difficult to update. They also become a blind spot to most viewers of the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Bleech Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 ^^^^ very good idea ^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardman Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 If a sponsered rider posts something about a product from one of there sponsers thenI take it with a pinch of salt and ignore it as its more or less going to be biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 If a sponsered rider posts something about a product from one of there sponsers thenI take it with a pinch of salt and ignore it as its more or less going to be biased. ← Yeah, but then there are the people who do it on the sly - E.g. Viz boys. I know they're talking shit, but not everyone will. I like Mike's idea. Perhaps have it so normal members can reply to topics in there, to ask questions about products. But only banner subscribers can start topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducko Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 have you thought of having a topic i duno what you call them, ones at the top :P and it can be a place where people can put new products in there instead of creating fresh topics each time? then all of the new stuff will be in one place? just a thought (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunkey_monkey_boy Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 have you thought of having a topic i duno what you call them, ones at the top :P and it can be a place where people can put new products in there instead of creating fresh topics each time? then all of the new stuff will be in one place? just a thought (Y) ← a sticky - might work but personally i've never even remember to look at the stickies let alone read them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducko Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 a sticky - might work but personally i've never even remember to look at the stickies let alone read them... ← thats the whole point then there is no massive big fuss mad about someone making new topics to advertise (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Why can't people just join mailing lists, and then the companys can send them an e-mail. (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashZen Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Wowww! :P Such an hostile thread there! I wonder if I really want to get involved into advertising at all then... :) ( I guess for a forum it's different than in a fixed website where content is only edited by the webmaster and no one else, so no devious threads) But some day, I'll probably trash Zen :P , I mean trash my whole website if I can't get any brand to pay at least for its hosting. I like the idea of the Trials forum as a free thing for all users, really useful, and I built TrashZen in the same spirit I guess, purely being passionate about trials and helping out newbies...and it was mostly on free hosting from Tripod... But since I started paying for a domain name, I kinda understand the need for advertising... :P It all gets so political so quickly, that's scary... (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.