spunkey_monkey_boy Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 recently theres been alot of arguments about advertising with what is a legal thread and whats not. now personally i dont give a shit if (for example) phil (selectbikes) comes on the forum and go's 'hey guys and gals just to let you know the new GU frame is in stock but we only have 5 of them at the moment'. equally i don't care if tart comes on and says 'hey guys and gals the new vario frame is here in the uk and our team riders are now testing them so ask them for a go if your interested'. what does however piss me off hugely is that when someone makes a thread about a nice new product within a few posts the same old shit boring argument has started over 'legal' and 'illegal' advertsising. can you please stop clogging up good posts with the same old shitting f**king argument because we don't care! make a new post saying 'legal advertising argument in here' and then the rest of us dont have to read it. this is nothing personal because i like all the guys who seem to be causing this but on the forum your really starting to piss me off by filling new product threads with more shit than you get in NMC - cut it out!!! thoughts anyone? (and don't even think about turning this into the that illegal advertising thread :P ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Haha, I would agree, but that argument is by far the juiciest thing that's been on TF since Kloe :P Almost as good as Handbags on S7 all that time ago! Nah I'm just being silly. It's really annoying :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleharrys Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Its not the end of the world I think, everyone is doing it with websites of thier own and where they shop. Harry - Littleharrys@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todge Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 All this argueing is just making the relevant shops get advertised more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotchDave Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 The thing is, if an owner of a brand comes on here, and asks rhetorical questions about his components, it's wrong really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunkey_monkey_boy Posted June 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 yeah but if come on here and say - oh my god leeson are the best company in the world buy their new frame thats just been designed it on the web site, its fine. if clive came on here and said - there is a new leeson design now out, see the web site for more info, it would be an illegal thread even though it was helpful. (leesons BTW are amazing and clive has the best customer service in the fooking world, his service shits all over every other company i've ever dealt with) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Fel Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Almost as good as Handbags on S7 all that time ago! ← I wouldn't have my name if it wasn't for that. Good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I agree Tom, but it couldn't be helped. I'm going to be childish now and do say something I havn't said for years but: He started it. It would have been a happy thread, I really don't think I can take any blame for that. But Tom, this is quite a pointless post really, it can quite easilly start it rolling again, it's asking for handbags. Maybe just PM Tom or Danny if you have problems with the forum. Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotchDave Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 yeah but if come on here and say - oh my god leeson are the best company in the world buy their new frame thats just been designed it on the web site, its fine. if clive came on here and said - there is a new leeson design now out, see the web site for more info, it would be an illegal thread even though it was helpful. (leesons BTW are amazing and clive has the best customer service in the fooking world, his service shits all over every other company i've ever dealt with) ← It is weird, cos he is just sharing information, but he is set to gain from it so in a way it is wrong. I don't know I long for the days of old T-F. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Trials-Forum is still going because of the money coming in from banner advertisements. This means that without banner advertisements, Trials-Forum wouldn't be able to run. Therefore, it needs to be the case that there is incentive to buy a banner. If you can just post anything, there isn't any point in buying a banner, and therefore no money comes in. Bye bye T-F. Therefore, rules need to be drawn up so that there's still incentive, and it's still a level playing field for companies wanting to advertise. I don't think the rules are shit-hot at present, and there's a pretty hefty discussion about how to change them, but it's just tricky 'cos basically people are always going to try and f**k them about by getting friends to post, etc. So yeah, it'll be sorted soon, hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Motivator Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 (edited) 'Don't worry about what I wrote' Can we have a paypal tf donation thing please, Sam Edited June 21, 2005 by Sam@SouthTrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonno Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I don't know I long for the days of old T-F. :D ← :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biketrialler Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Its not actually illegal. But its against the rules of the forum like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunkey_monkey_boy Posted June 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 well in that case you just tell tart, phil, adam (merseytrial), fred, barbara etc etc that they cannot make and post or comment on anything that they sell and are not allowed to mention their site/shop in any way shape or form. that fair phil - thats f**king classic mate, 'he started it' is the best line ever! and i know its asking for trouble but i wanted to vent my anger at not being able to look at new parts without having to read the f**king argument... anyway phil pays for his banner, dan ko i believe does not have a banner and has got away with dodgy advertising before so maybe you should leave phil alone and go whinge at dan... if someone pays for a banner then why the f**k can't they say - oh yeah and BTW that frames now available from here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 'Don't worry about what I wrote' Can we have a paypal tf donation thing please, Sam ← Seriously, that'd last for about... 2 days, maybe 3? People just wouldn't keep paying in month after month with the sort of volume of cash that is generated from banner sales, so it just wouldn't work. well in that case you just tell tart, phil, adam (merseytrial), fred, barbara etc etc that they cannot make and post or comment on anything that they sell and are not allowed to mention their site/shop in any way shape or form. that fair ← That wouldn't work, as we've already seen. I'm not having a go at James here, but James has put up - in that GU thread for example - "A little birdy told me you can get them from Selectbikes, but they've only got 5 in" or whatever. Basically, it'd just end up with that x10 if the advertisers themselves weren't allowed to say anything. It'd just end up being proper wank, which is why Danny and Tom are trying to sort out some new rules now. However, it's tricky, because as I said - people will always try and f**k them over. It's pretty ironic how people don't seem to realise that without T-F, they would go under. Tartybikes, Selectbikes and other similar companies wouldn't exist if it wasn't for T-F (or if they did, they wouldn't generate half the amount of business they do), yet there seems to be sketchiness involved from everyone in terms of undercutting the rules, which is basically shooting themselves in the foot. Ah well. anyway phil pays for his banner, dan ko i believe does not have a banner and has got away with dodgy advertising before so maybe you should leave phil alone and go whinge at dan... if someone pays for a banner then why the f**k can't they say - oh yeah and BTW that frames now available from here... ← Dan Ko is already pretty heavily clamped down on after his shady dealings with a) paying people to advertise for him, and b) getting loads of people to get Viz avatars then post in every thread even partially resembling a trials thread "Viz _____ are great. Get them from Dan Ko <insert Dan's e-mail address>." Also, Dan has tried to buy a banner but there isn't any banner space free any more (or something - I can't remember what exactly, although I'm pretty sure Danny told me that). Snuffing out smaller businesses that can't afford to buy banners would also be shit. Tom has already said that he could potentially get bigger companies to pay more for advertising banners, which in turn would rule out Tartybikes, Selectbikes and whoever else currently has a banner (I don't know 'cos NIS turns off banners, so I didn't know we had a P-X banner for 4 months...). That again would be counter-productive. Anyway, basically, this is all about how Tom and Danny want to run their forum, so there's no sense in us typing so much we piss blood without their input, so until anyone hear's more FROM THEM, I guess these threads are pretty redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Onzaboy, I'd just like to make sure you don't think I put James up to making that post on the other topic, Like dan ko does, I DID NOT DO THAT and never have done, james happened to reply after me and that is all it was, It would be a bit obvious aswell wouldn't it. Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Hey Phil, I wasn't suggesting you did at all. Sponsored riders/others working for shops putting up info is another problem that is affecting basically every set of rules people are trying to come up with. As one rule, for example, would you agree to letting company people put up replies to questions asked? But ONLY to the actual question? E.g. "How many bars do you have in stock?" "3" as opposed to "3, you should buy them now 'cos they're f**king awesome"? So that way, people get the info they want, without it being a 'sales pitch' and thus getting people aggro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) Trials-Forum is still going because of the money coming in from banner advertisements. This means that without banner advertisements, Trials-Forum wouldn't be able to run. Therefore, it needs to be the case that there is incentive to buy a banner. If you can just post anything, there isn't any point in buying a banner, and therefore no money comes in. Bye bye T-F. ← You know you should copy, paste and save that. Save you having to type it out. becuase this is what, the 10 millionth time you have explained it? It's one of these rules where theres no cut off point if you know what i mean, like selling stuff in NM. There's no doubt if someone is selling stuff, or isn't, it can be clearly seen. But if someone asked on a thred where can i get "such and such" from, and, for example, someone from tartybikes is reading the thred, and tartybikes sells that particular item, they can't post, becuase it against the rules. Which seems pritty unfair really. But blatent advertising ultimatly leads to TF being no more, so, no advertising it is, you'll have to live with it. Edited June 22, 2005 by JT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Hey Phil, I wasn't suggesting you did at all. Sponsored riders/others working for shops putting up info is another problem that is affecting basically every set of rules people are trying to come up with. As one rule, for example, would you agree to letting company people put up replies to questions asked? But ONLY to the actual question? E.g. "How many bars do you have in stock?" "3" as opposed to "3, you should buy them now 'cos they're f**king awesome"? So that way, people get the info they want, without it being a 'sales pitch' and thus getting people aggro? ← I'm not responsable for what people put on the forum, I just help the guy ride trials, although i don't see much difference if he did put the "you should go buy them now" bit in a post it won't change anything, it would seem like an opinion, because this rider might use one and know how good they are so they say so, I see LOTS of people saying "get these they are great" "you want this or that", these are just random people on the forum, but it doesnt make any difference if this person is sponsored or not. I don't think that is the problem to be honest. Infact i don't actually know what the problem is, there was no problem untill tarty started to moan about not breaking any rules, it's only been 1 topic. What are the problems, I don't hardly see any advertising on the forum, I don't actually think there is anything wrong, I think I have broke the rules once in a BT fork topic, which is really strange, no idea why i put that in, but it should be deleted, I know the rules and I stick to them just like every other shop here with a lttle here and there but wouldnt effect other companies from wanting to buy banners. Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Again Phil, wasn't saying you're putting anyone up to saying anything. All I mean is that, like with the Vizbikes thing before, it just ends up with threads asking bone questions like "Are the brand new Viz rims available from Dan Ko for £ _ _ any good? I think so, but what about you?" or whatever, which are shit, really. Just when people start 'fishing' for answers and so on it gets a bit gay. To be honest, I'm a bit knackered and not really thinking super well, so I'll get back to you on the rest of your post. The main thing is is that the rules are trying to be altered to allow more flexibility for advertisers as opposed to an all-out ban. Allowing companies to put up some info about new products and so on's good, but it's gotta be done right. Or something. Meh. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) Nice bike though heh. :) ← In the thread that fueled this argument simon posed this, it was the only comment on the subject in hand out of 3 pages of arguing about advertising. :D (Y) Funny. Makes you think you shouldn't argue about it and just let it be, and get back to talking about what's important. Edited June 22, 2005 by JT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Again Phil, wasn't saying you're putting anyone up to saying anything. All I mean is that, like with the Vizbikes thing before, it just ends up with threads asking bone questions like "Are the brand new Viz rims available from Dan Ko for £ _ _ any good? I think so, but what about you?" or whatever, which are shit, really. Just when people start 'fishing' for answers and so on it gets a bit gay. To be honest, I'm a bit knackered and not really thinking super well, so I'll get back to you on the rest of your post. The main thing is is that the rules are trying to be altered to allow more flexibility for advertisers as opposed to an all-out ban. Allowing companies to put up some info about new products and so on's good, but it's gotta be done right. Or something. Meh. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ← OK, I understand about that, but maybe it's just about seeing how much it happens, and whether it gets noticed much, because comment s like that (the dan ko example) will never be made by shops wanting to advertise, therefore you would have to enforce rules on the whole forum, shops cannot take the blame for what other forum members say. It's all over the forums about "you can get it from tartybikes or selectbikes ect etc" it's everywhere, posted by random forum members, what do you do about that?? to me that would seem ok though aslong as it's not done blatently by a shop it would have to be a genuine bit of information to help people because if somebody doesn't say it, then where would they get this that part they want for the weekend or whatever??? Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Doesn't work for them. Won't work for us. (At JT, in that Phil's just split the posts up :)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 OK, I understand about that, but maybe it's just about seeing how much it happens, and whether it gets noticed much, because comment s like that (the dan ko example) will never be made by shops wanting to advertise, therefore you would have to enforce rules on the whole forum, shops cannot take the blame for what other forum members say. It's all over the forums about "you can get it from tartybikes or selectbikes ect etc" it's everywhere, posted by random forum members, what do you do about that?? to me that would seem ok though aslong as it's not done blatently by a shop it would have to be a genuine bit of information to help people because if somebody doesn't say it, then where would they get this that part they want for the weekend or whatever??? Phil. ← Hey Phil, should have a PM if you didn't notice it :) Anyway, as you said - random forum members are fine to post up info. If they didn't, the forum would just die. Simple as that, really. The thing is is that like Tart posting a link to Bikedock, he isn't affiliated with them, so it's just helping people out. That's a crappy example on my part, but it's from "life" so it works I guess. Anyway, random forum members are fine to do it, which is where the problem lies. It's just when team riders start donig the sales pitches where the company owners can't that it gets into the grey area, just because they are theoretically affiliated to the company, and stand to gain if you make the sale (metaphorical "you", not you you, Phil :D). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) Doesn't work for them. Won't work for us. (At JT, in that Phil's just split the posts up :D) ← LMAO, I was sitting there for 5 mins wondering what the hell that picture was for, then I refreshed and saw you edited it lol, that consused me :) Edited June 22, 2005 by totaltrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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