Dan@Trials-uk Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 no dan. it really isnt, i wasnt actually that harsh on the rim at all, it just didnt like holding out. WTF!!!!!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! whats my sort of riding????? :) i ride trials like every other rider, so your saying that viz rims arent built for trials??? im confused :S dan, im not trying to have an argument, your post just makes no sence... ← Your saying your riding (street) is the same as natural? The reason why the rim did'nt last you was.. 1. You doing a big drop and purposly landing it hard and then slag of the part off because it didnt hold on your drop. :- Also, does it mean echo rims are just as bad? because it lasted you 2 days? (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat hudson Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 if you want a wide rim ali-c still has his bob rim wich was 2 mavics welded together. should be wide enough, light enough, strong enough a bugger to lace. pm him about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 I have bob built up at the mo, but it seems the heat from welding softened the metal, so its no better than koxx, onza & viz rims. I am gonna try it again, but only get it tagged instead of a weld all the way round, that should stop the metal softening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Porter Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Your saying your riding (street) is the same as natural? The reason why the rim did'nt last you was.. 1. You doing a big drop and purposly landing it hard and then slag of the part off because it didnt hold on your drop. :) Also, does it mean echo rims are just as bad? because it lasted you 2 days? (Y) ← so your saying that they are only natural rims?????? the rim was f**ked before the drop :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 well to be fair james not many people do 13ft drop offs and just pray their bike holds up too it, same for silly drops gaps and other 20ft to 1ft rails. i dont wanna sound harsh, but i will just like to say that gaps like that isnt just abt having alot of guts. if TRA had a viz rim i am sure it would last him long enough.. its the same as why Chris walker/Ben savage can use monty and try all respectivly and others just find that their made of cheese. ← Your saying your riding (street) is the same as natural? The reason why the rim did'nt last you was.. 1. You doing a big drop and purposly landing it hard and then slag of the part off because it didnt hold on your drop. :) Also, does it mean echo rims are just as bad? because it lasted you 2 days? (Y) ← If TRA had a viz rim he would have gone through the whole of VIz's supply in a few weeks. I thought it was a known fact that VIZ rims are cheese, they just are, nothing you can do about it, cheeeese stains all over them. Nice idea that "natural riding rims" that will take off indeed, should have stickers on it for the exact weight you should be, what you should and should not do on them, and a "smooth-o-meter" reading on them. phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChai Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 (edited) If TRA had a viz rim he would have gone through the whole of VIz's supply in a few weeks. I thought it was a known fact that VIZ rims are cheese, they just are, nothing you can do about it, cheeeese stains all over them. Nice idea that "natural riding rims" that will take off indeed, should have stickers on it for the exact weight you should be, what you should and should not do on them, and a "smooth-o-meter" reading on them. phil. ← TRA would not go through viz stuff if he isnt goin through try all stuff, he knows what hes doing and probably does not do the massive drops he does in videos very often. Viz rims are not cheese, i have been putting mine through much more stress then i had ever with my try alls and they arent even as buckled as my tryalls yet. stress i am talking about here is stuff like land harsh after a level gap or just not landing how i should be, i hardly do huge drops (8ft maybe?) unless i need too. you have hardly any back up to what u said just there. apart from a bomb proof rim i dont think many rims that intend to be light for trials use would hold up for more then a couple of weeks to the crazy riding james puts his bike into nearly every ride. Anyway back to topic. mavic rims are really good, the ones jimbo (james lim) used to be using? maybe you could have a quick speak to him about them and where u can get them from etc... they seemed to have lasted him years and worked great with his plaz pads even though it was a disk only rim (Y) Edited June 8, 2005 by TheChai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Porter Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 (edited) phil has said all that cause thats what dan has put accross though chai... dan has said they are not made for street. dan, when was this drop i purposly landed hard on??????? and arent viz rims just try-all rims with eyelets and a appollo grove that does feck all? Edited June 8, 2005 by James_Porter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haydon_peter Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 TRA would not go through viz stuff if he isnt goin through try all stuff, he knows what hes doing and probably does not do the massive drops he does in videos very often. ← Do you know for a fact that TRAlalalala does not go through loads of Try-All parts? Im sure that even if he was eating his sponsors parts for breakfast while going big he wouldnt post on a forum telling everyone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Do you know for a fact that TRAlalalala does not go through loads of try-all parts? Im sure that even if he was eating his sponsors parts for breakfast while going big he wouldnt post on a forum telling everyone... ← Exactly, he doesn't know, I think if I actually done a hardness test of the VIZ rim and then done some more of some other rims that viz rims would then be cheese, I could could spread them rims on bread, I'm only saying this because they are cheese rims it's one of those things which is just true. Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 When I say "cheese rims" I'm saying the material is very soft, resulting in bad denting and weakness, along with poor grinds and dodgy grooves which hold water in the rim without dispersing it out of the rim, therefore you will always have a wet bad brake in the wet (appollo groove lmao) Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat hudson Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 to be honest i dont give a shit sbout TRA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Porter Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 to be honest i dont give a shit sbout TRA ← whys that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChai Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Exactly, he doesn't know, I think if I actually done a hardness test of the VIZ rim and then done some more of some other rims that viz rims would then be cheese, I could could spread them rims on bread, I'm only saying this because they are cheese rims it's one of those things which is just true. Phil. ← i am not bothering with this arguement anymore, leaving it to what people want to think. but i will like to see u do that :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 i am not bothering with this arguement anymore, leaving it to what people want to think. but i will like to see u do that :) ← Good. Kinda takes the piss when people like you are blatenly paid of in terms of Peanuts/Viz discounts. Sorry, but give it a f**king rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChai Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 (edited) Good. Kinda takes the piss when people like you are blatenly paid of in terms of Peanuts/Viz discounts. Sorry, but give it a f**king rest. ← what was that for? what takes the piss? i just dont see why others should be dissing viz without any good reasons :) Edited June 8, 2005 by TheChai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thechink Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 yay for team viz. my mate has the pimpest brake ever with a try all. and if anyone was on the portsmouth dj ride they would know that my brake was f**king amazing in the wet. if the rims are so shit how come every one of the top class riders uses them with no problem. its just that people go oh i will do this 10 foot drop although i cant land it properly. i dont do drops over 7 - 8 foot becuae it just kills bikes. if you get your rush through jumpingo ff high stuff get a dh bike and do freeride. trials to me is technical and the viz rim is perfect for what i do. and dont just thinking im saying this. i used to run viz rims ages ago and they have been great. i have only put a little dent in mine after running a well low pressure and landing uber harsh. thechink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the666ers Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 If any of you can actually point out the difference between any Viz, Koxx, Echo, etc etc rim in the manufacture I will be very surprised. Most of the parts are just picked out of a lovely big book with the following options. Insert Logo here. Width Type of drilling Colour Eyelets or no Eyelets. Then all the importers/companies just put in a nice big order and 3 weeks later they arrive in england on the back of a tug boat along with several other 'brands' of exactly the same rim. Any noticed the similarities between the B.T stem and the Zoo one? Or how about the really old school 'bike gas' hubs and their most recent incarnation, Viz ones. All just rebranded, mass produced shite with no actual design thought or research further than what colour shall we make them, how wide do they need to be, and shall we have Eyelets or not. It's simple as that. Ever wondered why your forks have got f**king pannier rack mounts on them? Or why they have a reflector mount at the top? It's cos' each individual bit is picked out of a book. Dropout kj6789 etc etc....Yes that's right, bits originally used on trek's and any other taiwan made consumer bike are what's keeping your teeth out of the ground, and you're paying silly amounts just because it says "Insert brand name here" on the leg with a wonkily applied sticker. If one Koxx rim takes a grind longer than a Echo one, it's very likely that Koxx were just more lucky with the quality of material used in manufacture, I mean lets be honest. Do you think Koxx use electrolisis and ultrasound to test the integrity of the metal before manufacture? If they did they wouldn't be cheap. If they aren't cheap then they don't make an extortionate profit over cost, and if they were checked like that - they might be strong which would mean people wouldn't be buying them all the time which means less money in the bank. Anyone know where the Koxx factory is? How about the echo factory? Or the Viz one? Find them for me and I guarantee they will have a nice big "Goods in" door at the back where all their products come in from the far east and are then beautifully assembled by chimps on a production line who know f**k all about bikes. The monty factory is rumored to have middle aged women putting the bikes together then chucking them in boxes and sending them out to all the clever distributors here, who are making a mint on cheap ass bikes that they know people will pay out of the arse for. You pay for them because you see the top class riders using them. It's called clever advertising. The top class riders use them because they are paid a mint to and get free bits left right and centre. The world class riders go through them all the time, you just don't realize it cos' in the back of the van there's another part they will just replace it with. At the koxx days TRA went through loads of stuff, i have been reliably informed. At the end of the day you can all go on about which rim is better, "least cheesy", and it'll be like falling down a black hole because every rider will have a different opinion or a different sponsor chucking them free bits for a good word about their 'products' on the forum. Rant over. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 what was that for? what takes the piss? i just dont see why others should be dissing viz without any good reasons :) ← I am not dissing Viz - I've never used any of their products (And never will, purely out of principle, but that's beside the point). But they are just a company run via false advertising on here. People give biased reviews in return for knockdown price on Viz goods. True or False? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 But then again James, Your not partically smooth :P :P :"> .... and Viz rims isnt really produced for the type of riding you do.. Its like getting a racing bike and go DH on it :) Fool :) ← In fairness, James was damn smooth at the Abingdon ride. His tapping, upping, gapping, and basically everything was pretty dialled. That drop was pretty hench, but there we go. Claiming a rim is, basically, a "natural" rim is a load of bollocks too. From the sketchy nature of natural, it's not really any smoother than street, if you actually look at the riding. Shit riders riding shit natural obviously looks less abusive, but for the majority of riders, it will put a lot of strain onto rims and wheels that standard, flat-edged street simply won't. So "natural only" is stupid, or any claim along those lines. well to be fair james not many people do 13ft drop offs and just pray their bike holds up too it, same for silly drops gaps and other 20ft to 1ft rails. i dont wanna sound harsh, but i will just like to say that gaps like that isnt just abt having alot of guts. if TRA had a viz rim i am sure it would last him long enough.. its the same as why Chris walker/Ben savage can use monty and try all respectivly and others just find that their made of cheese. ← As Tic said - how do you know how many wheelsets/bars/stems TRA's gone through? Same for Walker/Savage? They aren't likely to give you actual figures of how many parts they break, moreover giving you some 'sincere' "I have never ever broken one of these weak-ass rims" post. If they came on here and said - like MANY people have found on here about, say, X-Lite rims - "Yeah, they keep denting and cracking laughably easily", their sponsors are gonna go 'hold up, you're not representing our product particularly well?'. It's commercial suicide. TRA would not go through viz stuff if he isnt goin through try all stuff, he knows what hes doing and probably does not do the massive drops he does in videos very often. Viz rims are not cheese, i have been putting mine through much more stress then i had ever with my try alls and they arent even as buckled as my tryalls yet. stress i am talking about here is stuff like land harsh after a level gap or just not landing how i should be, i hardly do huge drops (8ft maybe?) unless i need too. you have hardly any back up to what u said just there. apart from a bomb proof rim i dont think many rims that intend to be light for trials use would hold up for more then a couple of weeks to the crazy riding james puts his bike into nearly every ride. Anyway back to topic. mavic rims are really good, the ones jimbo (james lim) used to be using? maybe you could have a quick speak to him about them and where u can get them from etc... they seemed to have lasted him years and worked great with his plaz pads even though it was a disk only rim :P ← Simply reiterating "TRA would not go through V!Z stuff" means shit when you don't know how much Try-All/Koxx product he goes through. It means shit all anyway, so I don't really get why you're using some abstract idea to defend "Viz" (or basically anyone else who uses that rim's) rims. In none of the other Viz sexing threads have any of the Ko army said ANYTHING about it being for - to quote you - "Light trials". Maybe in the scant info on the Viz site you might want to get them to include "FOR LIGHT TRIALS USE ONLY"? Seeing as we wouldn't want little johnny disappointed, would we? Or are you now going to retract that statement and try and worm your way out of this hole in some other way? This isn't directed at you alone, Chai, 'cos you seem OK, it's just that Dan has basically raped his reputation on here after the whole "Viz discounts for advertising" shit, and basically, for example: chai = the W!N thechink ← yay for team viz. ← This sort of shit isn't really helping "back" the brand, is it? Crap like this doesn't convince anyone to go out and buy Viz product, or even consider it. If you're going to try and be some kind of evangelist ambassador for a product, not saying crap like this might be hugely beneficial to both you and the 'brand' you want to try and front for. yay for team viz. my mate has the pimpest brake ever with a try all. and if anyone was on the portsmouth dj ride they would know that my brake was f**king amazing in the wet. if the rims are so shit how come every one of the top class riders uses them with no problem. its just that people go oh i will do this 10 foot drop although i cant land it properly. i dont do drops over 7 - 8 foot becuae it just kills bikes. if you get your rush through jumpingo ff high stuff get a dh bike and do freeride. trials to me is technical and the viz rim is perfect for what i do. and dont just thinking im saying this. i used to run viz rims ages ago and they have been great. i have only put a little dent in mine after running a well low pressure and landing uber harsh. thechink ← A "Pimpest brake" isn't really hard to achieve. A grind and decent pads = wahey. However, the length of time the "Pimpest brake" lasts for is the crucial thing, and there's no point having a "pimpest brake" if the rims going to shit the bed in seconds. The problem people face with Try-All rims is that a grind lasts no time at all due to the softer material used. You can try and refute that the Viz rims are made from a different material, but we *all* know that's bullshit. Trying to say that Viz rims and most Viz products are some ground-breaking new idea is a load of crap, and you know it. They are purely rebranded parts that are pumped into the marketplace by a company that is purely in the market to make profit, not to benefit riders in any way at all (unless they think that 'helping out' riders is beneficial, perhaps). Anyway, I'm sleepy tired... If any of you can actually point out the difference between any Viz, Koxx, Echo, etc etc rim in the manufacture I will be very surprised. Most of the parts are just picked out of a lovely big book with the following options. Insert Logo here. Width Type of drilling Colour Eyelets or no Eyelets. Then all the importers/companies just put in a nice big order and 3 weeks later they arrive in england on the back of a tug boat along with several other 'brands' of exactly the same rim. Any noticed the similarities between the B.T stem and the Zoo one? Or how about the really old school 'bike gas' hubs and their most recent incarnation, Viz ones. All just rebranded, mass produced shite with no actual design thought or research further than what colour shall we make them, how wide do they need to be, and shall we have Eyelets or not. It's simple as that. Ever wondered why your forks have got f**king pannier rack mounts on them? Or why they have a reflector mount at the top? It's cos' each individual bit is picked out of a book. Dropout kj6789 etc etc....Yes that's right, bits originally used on trek's and any other taiwan made consumer bike are what's keeping your teeth out of the ground, and you're paying silly amounts just because it says "Insert brand name here" on the leg with a wonkily applied sticker. If one Koxx rim takes a grind longer than a Echo one, it's very likely that Koxx were just more lucky with the quality of material used in manufacture, I mean lets be honest. Do you think Koxx use electrolisis and ultrasound to test the integrity of the metal before manufacture? If they did they wouldn't be cheap. If they aren't cheap then they don't make an extortionate profit over cost, and if they were checked like that - they might be strong which would mean people wouldn't be buying them all the time which means less money in the bank. Anyone know where the Koxx factory is? How about the echo factory? Or the Viz one? Find them for me and I guarantee they will have a nice big "Goods in" door at the back where all their products come in from the far east and are then beautifully assembled by chimps on a production line who know f**k all about bikes. The monty factory is rumored to have middle aged women putting the bikes together then chucking them in boxes and sending them out to all the clever distributors here, who are making a mint on cheap ass bikes that they know people will pay out of the arse for. You pay for them because you see the top class riders using them. It's called clever advertising. The top class riders use them because they are paid a mint to and get free bits left right and centre. The world class riders go through them all the time, you just don't realize it cos' in the back of the van there's another part they will just replace it with. At the koxx days TRA went through loads of stuff, i have been reliably informed. At the end of the day you can all go on about which rim is better, "least cheesy", and it'll be like falling down a black hole because every rider will have a different opinion or a different sponsor chucking them free bits for a good word about their 'products' on the forum. Rant over. James ← James, I salute you. Anyway, Pulo seem to have a pretty major hand in the production of some frames, anyway, so I guess that's one name for the melting pot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the666ers Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 On the Pimp brake side of things. I have black pads, on a dead grind, with an Oil bleed and everyone who has ridden my bike has agreed it is satisfactory for trials, people have even commented saying how it's better than their 19quid brake pad loaded, water bled maggie with 10 tonnes of booster preventing loss of power through flex. My brake: 03 Magura with Evo mounts, Standard hoses, Oil bleed, Black pads. Pashley booster Dead grind on a Tioga rim. (The grind was purely to remove the paint, have not reground since) If my brake suddenly turns shit then I will retract what I have said, but 3 months down the line on the same pads without touching the brake at all would suggest that isn't going to happen. Oh yeah, another benifit is it is pretty much silent. Thank God. I put my good brake down to a good set up and a proper bleed with the intended fluid. If anyone says it's not been ridden hard enough to see if it's good enough then I will give example of Nick Manning tapping my 24 up a 50 inch high skip to back wheel and not struggling with brake slip in any way at all. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChai Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 totally fair points... i guess i am just really pleased proud that i have got a sponsor... :P and i appreciate it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 All this over a rim. Acemazing stuff. I run a Onza rim, which is basically a Alex D32. Now, i really cant see how your pads dont reach properly. Mine, with TPA fully off, touch perfectly, theres LOADS of room to move them in when the pads wear, and my brake is super amazing. I would try setting up your brake, properly, then come asking for the un-answerable. There simply is NO decent rim above 38mm, or whatever the Onza/Alex ones are. If however your not using a Woodstock frame anymore, then my whole post is pointless, but i assume you are, what with your text under your avatar, and you havn't asked about a different frame an hour, for a good few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 totally fair points... i guess i am just really pleased proud that i have got a sponsor... :P and i appreciate it :) ← Fair enough, it's just that it seems some posts from people who are sailing aboard the good ship Viz seem to be misleading people as to the parts they're representing, which isn't really on. Not to mention dicking around on the forum, with the whole posts mean prizes stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 at the end of the day , if its round and provides a good place to attach youre tyre to who cares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Porter Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 (edited) at the end of the day , if its round and provides a good place to attach youre tyre to who cares ← so you wouldnt care if you spent £35 on a rim that lasted a week as long as it held your tyre in for the time it was built/alive for? Edited June 9, 2005 by James_Porter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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