DaiTrials Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Right ... I've craked my ashton justice, but I love the feel of it. Im getting an echo control but im not sure weather to get the 1065 or 1085, ive ridden a 1065 zoo and it somehow feels shorter than my bike which has a tiny wheelbase of 1020. Some people say its the +10mm bb raise, others say its my long brisa stem. I measured the stem and its only 110. The new control had a +20 mm rise. basically, I want to know what stem to put on, so I can have a nice long 1085 Echo control and it not feel too long. I thought a 100mm Hope stem, but that has less rise, which is also likely to change the feel of the bike. Im not really that concerned about how it feels, but I dont want somthing that feels completely diffrent. I do want somthing that Is more "correct" for trials in terms of how profesionals set up their bikes to get the most out of them! Dai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urpedigreechumdog Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 I was in a similar situation a few days ago. I snapped my Echo ES4r (1010 wheelbase and felt longer than my mates 1040) but i loved the feel of it, i was a bit confused on what to do frame wise, but i though 'change is good', so i bought a t-rex :- It arrives tomorrow so i'll have to see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Your Ashton had a 74 degree head angle. The Zoo frames have a 71 degree head angle. So, the forks 'stick out more' - even though the wheelbase is longer, your bars are closer to your feet, which makes it ride shorter :- Therefore, the best measurement to use for comparing reach, is from the centre of the BB shell to the top of the head tube (in my opinion) - since this is where the contact parts of your bike are connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiTrials Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 But it dosnt ride shorter, it feels longer? thats whats confusing. echo and zoo feel shorter, even though the bars are futher from ur feet :- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 echo and zoo feel shorter, even though the bars are futher from ur feet :- ← Theyre not though - your bars aren't attached to the front axle. The head angle on the Echo and Zoo frames is a lot slacker than on the Ashton. I feel a paint diagram coming on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiTrials Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 I feel a paint diagram coming on... ← Come on then, the diargram would be awsome, and if u cane be bothered, do the maths for me, and tell me what stem to go for to make it feel similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 On the left we have an Ashton... and on the right we have a Zoo 1065. The red line is what I call the 'reach' - this is the distance from the BB shell (where your feet attach to the frame) to the top of the head tube (where your hands attach to the frame). The green line is wheelbase. As you can see on the right hand frame, the head angle is shallower - ie. the forks stick out more (exaggerated on this picture though). So... even though the red line (reach) is longer on the left hand frame... the wheelbase is shorter, since the head angle is steep. If you could measure from the centre of the BB shell to the centre of the top of the head tube on your Ashton, I can do the same on a Pitbull 1065, and from that its possible to work out what length/rise stem would be needed to make the bike 'feel' the same. Hope that makes sense :- Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiTrials Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 ok, but that diagram shows the ashton with a longer wheelbase, if you re-draw it acuratly with the echo haveing the longer wheelbase, then the position of the headtube on the echo has to move forward and so the reach line becomes longer than that on the ashton :- confused !? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 ok, but that diagram shows the ashton with a longer wheelbase← Nah, its not - measure it on your screen :- Question for you - do you understand what 'head angle' means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiTrials Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 (edited) Hold on, so the zoo pushes the fork , not the ashton - got you. oops But in reality, 3 degree headtube angel does not make a bike 45 mm longer wheelbase, So shouldnt the ashton still feel shorter ? Edited April 21, 2005 by DaiTrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Hold on, so the zoo pushes the fork out more and the echo ← Yep, which leads to longer wheelbase... :- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiTrials Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 (edited) adam, add me to msn, daihowells68@hotmail.com just done some scale drawings, my ashton has a 700 mm "reach", and the echo 1085 will have a 720 mm "reach" the wheelbase is 65 mm longer, but the bar positioning only 20mm longer the headangle accounts for 33mm of the shortening affect ( shocking ) and the 20mm bb rise for the other 11mm you may also be interested to know there is a 15 mm height diffrence at the points where the stem joins, assuming that the headtube lenghts are the same, which im unsure of, so basically, the "feel" of a 1085 echo will be 20mm futher forward and 15mm lower, quite small, considering a 65 mm longer wheelbase. Edited April 21, 2005 by DaiTrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picki Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 why bumm about with wheel base....just ride some ones bike that feels right...and but one! :- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 This is actually a really informative topic on wheelbases and the general feel of bikes :D Should be Archived :- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desire68 Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 I think I understand a lot more about wheel base and head angles now,should definitely be archived! Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialkid Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 (edited) dai just get a pitbull 1065 like me :- ! it will be loads easier to bump, but wont feel that much longer, james had a shorter stem and his bars posititioned back which in my experience can make makes feel a hell of a lot different, he also had shorter bars which again changes the feel and can make a bike feel shorter i find. im probably completely wrong but there you go. also the new 05 control which is coing out has the same geo as the pitbull doesnt it, im sure i read +10mm bb 375mm chainstays etc Edited April 22, 2005 by trialkid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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