Sponge Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 (edited) . Edited April 26, 2014 by Sponge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tank_rider Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 thats all well and good, but how does it compare in fatigue, and whats it like to weld. Ti is actually not as light as alu if i remember correctly, but it is stronger and so tubes can be made thinner, which would allow dents to form more easily, with xc bikes this isnt much of a problem due to their intended use, however as many people will confirm, thing tubes on a trials bike arent a good idea as they dent and fold rather easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponge Posted April 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Trek says: ZR 9000 is a proprietary alloy hardened with zirconium – producing frames that are 15% stronger and 15% lighter than industry standard aluminum. Our tests show that ZR 9000 increases the fatigue strength of a frame by up to five times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butcha87 Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 U6 is fine,and probably cheaper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 If it is lighter, stronger, and cheaper than anything else used for frames, then there must be another reason why every manufacturer doesnt use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 producing frames that are 15% stronger and 15% lighter than industry standard aluminum. Arent most trials frame unstandard alluminium though? ie hardened and heat treated etc? Also materilas like u6 would it be as strong as them and as light? as theyre also not very standard :D" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 If it is lighter, stronger, and cheaper than anything else used for frames, then there must be another reason why every manufacturer doesnt use it. ← Thats exactly what i thought. :D I think its a case of value to weight/strength ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 tubes can be made thinner, which would allow dents to form more easily, with xc bikes this isnt much of a problem due to their intended use, however as many people will confirm, thing tubes on a trials bike arent a good idea as they dent and fold rather easily. ← *ding ding ding* Correct! The ZR9000 Trek frames have stuuupidly thin tubes. However, thats not to say you couldnt have the same weight frame (same thickness tubes) and make it 15% stronger :D (compared to whatever industry standard aluminium is... id guess at 6061). Probably not cheap. Thats my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobnobs Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 (edited) Probably not cheap. Thats my guess. ← Im with you there, look at Ti for a start, its 3 times (i think?) lighter than steel and costs a hell of a lot more. Then youve got this ZR9000 alloy, which will probably cost more than Ti. Now if a Ti frame costs £1000, then how much would a ZR9000 frame cost? Edited April 9, 2005 by Hobnobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tank_rider Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Im with you there, look at Ti for a start, its 3 times (i think?) lighter than steel and costs a hell of a lot more. Then youve got this ZR9000 alloy, which will probably cost more than Ti. Now if a Ti frame costs £1000, then how much would a ZR9000 frame cost? ← Ti is actually not as expensive as people think, however it requires far more advanced techniques to join it and so these techniques and larger numbers of scrap frames due to the difficulty of welding Ti push costs high. For applications where the Ti doesnt need welding i believe it isnt actually that much more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 i dont think the zr9000 that trek use for there top of the range XC bike would be that ideal for trials, as adam said, firstly they tubes are thin, and by this i mean uber thin, secondly its a very expensive material to put together, im unsure exactly on the method of construction but it is expensive, however i wouldnt think it were as expensive as titanium to put otgether. i would say that zr9000 is a good tubing material for frames, however there are reasons why companies use certain materials for certian bikes. for example the stresses and forces applied to a trials bike is very different from say DH or XC. So as ZR9000 tubing was designed for lightweight XC bikes i think it should stay that way, with XC bikes. cheers ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 righty guys, was having a chat with my boss at work, and a trek rep today on the phone, basically ZR9000 would be a great material for trials, its super dent resistent, very light, and uber strong, i know im contradiciting my first post, but this is a confirmation of facts now. However, trek and gary fisher, are the only people who are allowed to use this material, must be their design (trek own gary fisher) and the base material, Zinc i think it is, is super for frame building, however the downside. expensivio, not so much as ti, but still very expensive to manufacture and as trek dont make any trials bikes, i cant see it happening anytime soon for trials frames. anyway, thought i woulc confirm something cheers ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Nichols Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 I'm not sure if anybody has spotted this yet... but ZR9000 it Treks own brand. It's a kind of composite - and I'm not sure you'd be able to get hold of it very easily? However as has been said, sure the frames on the treks are thin as they are designed for xc... So why not use this metal with thicker tubes and then still have an equally light frame but very strong. Meh, dunno whats wrong with steel though myself :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 yea i had spotted it, if u look in the post above yours :unsure: cheers ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Nichols Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 aaah yeah, my bad :unsure: Well take that as 100% confirmation then that you can't use it for trials (Y) *CASE CLOSED I DO BELIEVE* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SQuiT-man Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Officially, ti is supposed to be 60% of the weight of steel, and 6 times as strong, but has a nice springly-like flex property like steel, with high fatigue resistance. That should make it a much better material for trials than any of these materials, however because it would be made with such thin walls, it would dent easily. So if they were made with thicker walls, although they would be harder to dent, they would be hugely unneccesarily strong and expesive, seeing as the material is expensive and much harder to make frames out of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Nichols Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 However it would be stupidly expensive. Also, who wants a flexy frame?? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SQuiT-man Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 I love springy frames, much nicer feeling than ultra-stiff i think, they have more character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Nichols Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Well, ok then... Don't really know what to say to that :"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Someone get Trek to make a trials frame then :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 having a chat with a trek rep today on the phone, basically ZR9000 would be a great material for trials, its super dent resistent, very light, and uber strong← Well they would say that :unsure: Basically, you can have a frame thats lighter than standard alloy but dents easily, or the same weight as a standard alloy frame but stronger. I very much doubt Trek would make a trials frame, it would be such a tiny insignificant part of their sales! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 lol well we could send the boys round ;) to persuade them to make one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Nichols Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 (edited) I very much doubt Trek would make a trials frame, it would be such a tiny insignificant part of their sales! ← But they did make a trials frame... It was a mod. Not very successful though ;) EDIT: Found a pic Edited April 11, 2005 by nichols_sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisa Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Sounds like it would make the ultimate rear trials rim for a grind though... Think about it, strength, light weight with the fake diamond additive to make it harder therefore holding a pretty mean grind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 But they did make a trials frame... It was a mod. Not very successful though ;) EDIT: Found a pic ← Lol, nice effort with Photoshop whoever did that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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