colly Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 just bled my brakes with water, and ive noticed a more solid feel to the lever, i know why this is and it is due to water not been compresible, will this damage any internal parts of the brake, i know if you get water in a motor bike engine engine, and as the water cant compress its known as hydraulic lock, and can lead to crackin the crank case's, so before i use my bike i am just wanting to know if any one has had problems with there maguras when bleeding with water thanks. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 That post was confusing as f**k, but the "hydraulic lock" thing is what makes your brakes work. If it compressed, you'd be f**ked. The "solid" lever feel could just be that it's a good bleed as well? The only potential problem could be water corroding the seals or something, but it should be diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 I have run water for some time now, and i have had no trouble. Everything still works fine and nothing seems to be damaged. Im not sure whether water or oil is better, i suppose oil would give a better, stronger brake as that is what it was designed for. But im not sure. So here's another question, would oil give and stronger brake with more hold? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Arnold Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 I have run water for some time now, and i have had no trouble. Everything still works fine and nothing seems to be damaged. Im not sure whether water or oil is better, i suppose oil would give a better, stronger brake as that is what it was designed for. But im not sure. So here's another question, would oil give and stronger brake with more hold? :unsure: ← water will give a nicer, more solid feel but it might corrode the insides........ Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colly Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) That post was confusing as f**k, but the "hydraulic lock" thing yes but if it cant compress any more it will want to expand thus meaning possible damage to the hose or the slave cyliders? same as an engine, the petrol and oil can be compressed but if water gets in and cant be compressed it could crack the crank case. when it felt solid it wasnt well bled as the lever had to travel half way befor the pads moved :unsure: do you lot use dionised water? Edited March 30, 2005 by colly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colly Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 water will give a nicer, more solid feel comes back to the fact water is harder to compress than oil :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Think about it though - you've got flex from the stays, rim, pads and hosing itself which should have enough give in it to stop that from ever happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4130 Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 water will give a nicer, more solid feel but it might corrode the insides........ Will ← Have you ever looked inside? Its mainly plastic, the odd bit of rubber and monkey metal, the only think I could see that is steel is the spring in the lever. 100's of people have done it. I cant really see the link between a motorbike engine and a magura anyway :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colly Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 100's of people have done it. I cant really see the link between a motorbike engine and a magura anyway but it could though, im sure a motor bike crank case will be a lot more stronger than a magura cylinder, but any way im going to go for it. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4130 Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 You cant compress liquids anyway(right..?), whatever they are, so I can't see how all that motorbike engine stuff is relevent. Its the force of the petrol and air mix expanding as its burnt, pushing the piston down, not your index finger. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 i don't think oil is noticeably easier to compress than water.... the weird thing about water is that it expands when freezes...nothing else too special. :unsure: adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colly Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 this is what jim snell (top dog for gas gas) says about water in a engine, i know its not maguras but.... . When first trying to see if the engine will start, kick the engine over SLOWLY and without much pressure on the kickstart. If the engine has swallowed a lot of water and the combustion chamber is filled, kicking the engine hard can cause hydraulic lock (water is not compressible) and bend the connecting rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Again, that's a different thing :unsure: They're saying there that if the cylinder is full of water, then the piston can't move. That's different to a Magura because the Magura doesn't have a fixed casing around it that the piston is pushing into. Broadly speaking I guess you could say it was similar, but the problem cited in your quote is a different thing. I can't really think of any other way of putting it other than water simply works. It works. You can put it in your brake and it will work. Simple as that. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 we know water isnt compressible....what are you getting at? i take it there should be air in this chamber that fills with water? well duh...if there is water instead of air there will be trouble- try bleeding a mag with water (Y) sorry if i got it soooo wrong... :unsure: adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mink Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 It'll be fine. The difference in feel is due to the the water being less viscous than oil. The engine stuff is irrelevant, unless you've gone form running air in your maggies to running water (which you haven't). Basically engines normally take in air and compress it, but if you get water in there when the piston moves up from it lowest point and tries to compress the water it can't because liquids are incompressible, so the engine f**ks itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilite Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 It'll be fine. The difference in feel is due to the the water being less viscous than oil. The engine stuff is irrelevant, unless you've gone form running air in your maggies to running water (which you haven't). Basically engines normally take in air and compress it, but if you get water in there when the piston moves up from it lowest point and tries to compress the water it can't because liquids are incompressible, so the engine f**ks itself... ← That makes a lot more sense. Trying to compress water with something designed to compress air sounds like it could cause damage. Trying to compress water with something designed to compress oil and causing damage on the other hand sounds a little extreme. Go for it. You get the occassional person who hasn't tried it listing theoretical reasons why it's not good, but listen to all the people who have actually done it with no problems. I've never had anyone who has actually tried water bleeding say it's not a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colly Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 well there will be oil and petrol mix in a piston in a 2 stroke, becasue that is where it gets its lubrication from, when i took my engine apart the piston was brown where oil had been passing through from the gear box when the crank seals were shagged. (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 I think what everyone is getitn at is.... SHUT UP ABOUT THE FRIKIN ENGINES! on a lighter note, I hjave been running water in my magura for about 5-6 months and it is fine, no leaking, more power, nice lever feel. Can't go wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Linky (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Linky (Y) ← Of course you can compress anything you want, with enough pressure. But in a magura, you're not going to provide anywhere near enough pressure to noticibly compress water or oil or whatever you want to dump in there. Water freezes (And more importantly expands as it does so), that's the main problem with using it in mags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Fortunately, when it expands it can just push the pistons out a bit meaning there's not necessarily a shitload of damage on the inside of the Maguras. Or at least, that's what happened with mine. Was a b*****d though when I went to ride to school and my brakes had locked on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilite Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 A little antifreeze remedies that situation so I heard. (Makes sense) Possibly if anything is going to damage seals though, that could be it. Might just be worth not leaving it out in the cold. (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montybiketrial Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Just use what it was designed for... If water was better... I'm sure they would of designed them to use water. Iv'e tried everything in my maguras and then finally realised that its just best to use what your meant to use. (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roozor Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 I've been running deironised water for aggeeesss, absolutly swear by it! Feels so nice on the level, really snappy back and feels more solid. I'd never go back! and no signs of damage and it's been in there since i can remember (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Just use what it was designed for... If water was better... I'm sure they would of designed them to use water. Iv'e tried everything in my maguras and then finally realised that its just best to use what your meant to use. (Y) ← They sell them with black pads in them. Should I bang them back on? Oh, and my drilled rims probably need filling in again too. And I'd best not grind ever again. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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