Trials-shack To Remain Free

[Simon]

Morning.

Past few days i've been in contact with my server provider, to try and get them to give me a deal, and to answer a few a questions.

Due to some of these questions being answered, and the answers being the ones i did'nt want to hear, i am now not buying new server. One of which being i had to pay $75 to transfer my hard drive contents over.

This means there will be no fee, aswell no new server. However, this also means im still on 1200GB bandwidth, which as everyone's knows i used up in 15 days this month.

This is probably a good thing, as with over 100 FTP owners, i received a grand total of 6 e-mails.

In knowledge of the bandwidth issues, i will be removing 38/40 accounts later, then will be limiting accounts on server to 100. This will not reduce bandwidth much at all, but may help.

Also, as i only got 6 e-mails. If i delete your account, and don't have your e-mail, you ofcourse wont receive an e-mail, and will just find you wont be able to login.

Should of taken that 5mins to write that e-mail heh? :closedeyes:

Probably make a lot of people happy, as it seems only 1/5 of users was planning on paying a £2 a fee a month.

[Joe Papasnap Maher]

Simon :closedeyes: Keep my account..pleaseeeeeeee........ill send money like before if needed :-

[SamHolmes]

Can I please still keep my account :closedeyes:

Ill definatly make a donation soon :-

Sam :P

EDIT: Will there be a price plan available to host a website on there or not ?

Edited February 20, 2005 by Python_Sam

[Stephen Morris]

I've sent you an Email Simon, I'm more than happy to send some money over PayPal to keep my account active.

Cheers, Stephen.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

whats simons gmail?

i forgot to email him :">

[Pauly]

hey you can delet mine si my account is echo_rider its only because i never use it

Pauly

[delusional]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before (perhaps even by me), but have you thought about making a move to using bittorrent on Trials Shack? With TS seeding all the files instead of directly hosting them it would mean everything could still be available, but large rushes for popular files wouldn't as negatively affect the bandwidth.

There is also a caching system of some sort that is always being discussed on slashdot for use in just these situations, I forget what it's called right now but I'll look it up and let you know.

If you need any help with anything technical (or otherwise) on TS please let me know, I'd be more than happy to do whatever I can to keep this running.

[delusional]

There is also a caching system of some sort that is always being discussed on slashdot for use in just these situations, I forget what it's called right now but I'll look it up and let you know.

←

Aha, got it.

Have a look at Coral Cache. Looks like it could be a really good system. With the added advantage that it requires absolutely no effort to implement. Just make sure you add .nyud.net:8090 to all posted TS links :)

Although at the moment Coral only supports files <50meg, but that should cover the large quantity of files posted to TS.

edit damn bbcode again.

Edited February 20, 2005 by delusional

[SamHolmes]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before (perhaps even by me), but have you thought about making a move to using bittorrent on Trials Shack? With TS seeding all the files instead of directly hosting them it would mean everything could still be available, but large rushes for popular files wouldn't as negatively affect the bandwidth.

There is also a caching system of some sort that is always being discussed on slashdot for use in just these situations, I forget what it's called right now but I'll look it up and let you know.

If you need any help with anything technical (or otherwise) on TS please let me know, I'd be more than happy to do whatever I can to keep this running.

←

Thats quite a godd idea, but the majority of people want to just click a link and watch

I sometimes have problems downloading on different torrent things, Im using BITcomet now, its easy to use, esc but sometimes I have problems with it

But downloading straight from Shack is so much simpler and easier

I wouldnt have a problem with them being torrents though :closedeyes:

Sam

[haydon_peter]

I have suggested using bittorrent before [before tm1 came out and raped the server :closedeyes: ].

Im not sure how easy it would be, and I can see the video's board of t-f getting spammed with loads of people going "Can I get a re-seed" but I really do think its something that needs to be considered/tried out.

I use some trackers you have to sign up for, that keeps a share ratio, if you dont maintain a 1:1 share you get banned, simple. So if you download 1gig of stuff and havent also shared 1 gig of stuff you are simply banned from the tracker[not abloe to download]. A system like this means the trials comunity all contribute to the sharing of videos, a table of the good/bad sharers could also be displayed on T-S.

Maybe there is also a way that if a file has no active seeds it reverts to using T-S as a seed instead? But I expect that would be awkward to do...

[delusional]

I have suggested using bittorrent before [before tm1 came out and raped the server  :P ].

Im not sure how easy it would be, and I can see the video's board of t-f getting spammed with loads of people going "Can I get a re-seed" but I really do think its something that needs to be considered/tried out.

I use some trackers you have to sign up for, that keeps a share ratio, if you dont maintain a 1:1 share you get banned, simple. So if you download 1gig of stuff and havent also shared 1 gig of stuff you are simply banned from the tracker[not abloe to download]. A system like this means the trials comunity all contribute to the sharing of videos, a table of the good/bad sharers could also be displayed on T-S.

Maybe there is also a way that if a file has no active seeds it reverts to using T-S as a seed instead? But I expect that would be awkward to do...

←

I was assuming that TS would always be the master seed, so unpopular or old files would still always be available, but when the whole of TF swarm for a new file (e.g. tm1 madness) the shack wouldn't take such a massive hit in it's bandwidth. This would probably need some form of tool on TS to automatically create torrents of and seed files when they're uploaded, but I can see several relatively simple solutions to that (even if it involves a cron job and shell script).

Ideally the end effect on the usage of TS would be as minimal as possible, so people should still be able to just use it to upload and download files without having to worry about creating a torrent, looking for seeds or any of the associated nonsense that can come with bt. With intelligent upload scripts and a few simple guidlines on getting a bt client set up locally it *should* be fairly straightforward to get such a system running (famous last words there).

Mind you, setting up the shack to simply Coralize all it's download links would almost certainly be a million times easier and much less likely to cause luser headaches.

[Nick Garland]

Using some form of bittorrent file would be good but I doubt many people would seed it so the speed would be pathetic.

[JT!]

This is probably a good thing, as with over 100 FTP owners, i received a grand total of 6 e-mails.

←

:closedeyes:

Thats pathetic.

[Simon]

I was assuming that TS would always be the master seed, so unpopular or old files would still always be available, but when the whole of TF swarm for a new file (e.g. tm1 madness) the shack wouldn't take such a massive hit in it's bandwidth. This would probably need some form of tool on TS to automatically create torrents of and seed files when they're uploaded, but I can see several relatively simple solutions to that (even if it involves a cron job and shell script).

Ideally the end effect on the usage of TS would be as minimal as possible, so people should still be able to just use it to upload and download files without having to worry about creating a torrent, looking for seeds or any of the associated nonsense that can come with bt. With intelligent upload scripts and a few simple guidlines on getting a bt client set up locally it *should* be fairly straightforward to get such a system running (famous last words there).

Mind you, setting up the shack to simply Coralize all it's download links would almost certainly be a million times easier and much less likely to cause luser headaches.

←

I've looked into this before. Can't remember why i did'nt use it last time actually. Will look into it. The coral thing im not sure about. Will certainly have a read through. Thanks for those ideas.

A few people are concerned about their accounts. I will be basing deletion on activity, as well as usage. If you only have one video, uploaded 2 months ago, don't expect to find your account on the 1st. If you have an account, with just a website, then also don't expect to find your account.

Its not random, and high end users, such as trialmedia, or akpv will stay.

As i said, will look into the torrent scene, see if theres any server side torrent creators then automatic seeds. Will also have a look at that coral cache network.

[ben_travis]

simon could u confirm that u recieved my email please my account it travistrials, i deffo sent the email, also could u send an email to the peeps that will keep their account

cheers

ben

[Simon]

simon could u confirm that u recieved my email please my account it travistrials, i deffo sent the email, also could u send an email to the peeps that will keep their account

cheers

ben

←

With only 6 e-mails. Thats going to be pretty hard to send all 100 a e-mail. If i have the accounts e-mail i will ofcourse e-mail them that there account is closed. If your account still works on the 2nd, and you have no e-mail informing you of the deletion. Then you are fine.

And yes i did receive your e-mail. Thanks for that :closedeyes:

I did'nt reply to any, as i was waiting for the others, so i could mass e-mail you all the price plans.

[Fish-Finger-er]

this may be a stupid idea, may of been discussed before, or may plain not work, but why dont you change the system. rather than having people with accounts pay for the extra band width, why dont you introduce a system where you would have to pay a small amount (£1) to download videos from there a month.or £10 for a years subscription or whatever.

the way i see it is, it cant really fail.

if everyone who downloads now pays to download the movies, you can afford more bandwidth , a new pc, and small beach home on the cornish coast.

if only a few people download the videos, and share amongst other non paying people over msn etc to save everyone paying £1 a month. then the bandwidth goes down, (which means less money) but it means there is no need to upgrade the bandwidth.

it also means as the hosting of vids is still free, then no ones guna stop making vids due to the cost of them getting hosted.

Edited February 20, 2005 by trials_punk182

[br3n]

i dont think the users should have to pay, simon needs support from the people that benefit most from this service (cheap people who wont pay £10+ a year for webosting and use freewebs templates)

he should get some proper sponsorship from someone in the trials world as therer is a lot of advertising possibilities.

[Simon]

this may be a stupid idea,  may of been discussed before, or may plain not work, but why dont you change the system. rather than having people with accounts pay for the extra band width, why dont you introduce a system where you would have to pay a small amount (£1) to download videos from there a month.or £10 for a years subscription or whatever.

the way i see it is, it cant really fail.

if everyone who downloads now pays to download the movies, you can afford more bandwidth , a new pc, and small beach home on the cornish coast.

if only a few people download the videos, and share amongst other non paying people over msn etc to save everyone paying £1 a month. then the bandwidth goes down, (which means less money) but it means there is no need to upgrade the bandwidth.

it also means as the hosting of vids is still free, then no ones guna stop making vids due to the cost of them getting hosted.

←

If 100 people wont pay £2 a month to host any amounts of videos they like, what makes you think 100,000 people are going to pay £1 a month to download a few videos.

Paying to download is totally out of the question.

If i will charge, it will be for FTP accounts. If people want to upload one video, they pay a smaller fee for a temporary upload.

Ah well.

[picki]

alot of kids that no doubt use TS wont have any means of paying though.

me personally wouldn't mind paying!

the 6 replies is pretty crappy though!

spose you have thought of getting a bike company to sponsor it? just an idea

[haydon_peter]

Using some form of bittorrent file would be good but I doubt many people would seed it so the speed would be pathetic.

←

I use some trackers you have to sign up for, that keeps a share ratio, if you dont maintain a 1:1 share you get banned, simple. So if you download 1gig of stuff and havent also shared 1 gig of stuff you are simply banned from the tracker[not abloe to download]. A system like this means the trials comunity all contribute to the sharing of videos, a table of the good/bad sharers could also be displayed on T-S.

←

Thats why something like I already suggested would be an idea.

Would mean no leachers! Leachers piss me off!

I keep seeding this 470mb torrent, I must have uploaded it to like 5 more people but I am was still the only person ever seeding. So I got fed up of wasting my time and havent bothered seeding it anymore :closedeyes:

[delusional]

I've looked into this before. Can't remember why i did'nt use it last time actually. Will look into it. The coral thing im not sure about. Will certainly have a read through. Thanks for those ideas.

A few people are concerned about their accounts. I will be basing deletion on activity, as well as usage. If you only have one video, uploaded 2 months ago, don't expect to find your account on the 1st. If you have an account, with just a website, then also don't expect to find your account.

Its not random, and high end users, such as trialmedia, or akpv will stay.

As i said, will look into the torrent scene, see if theres any server side torrent creators then automatic seeds. Will also have a look at that coral cache network.

←

Can I ask why you're not sure about Coral Cache? From my perspective on this it seems an almost perfect solution, and requiring as little effort as changing one line of PHP (depending on how monkey works). I imagined Monkey automatically Coralizing the URL that the "download this video" button points to, then everything on the front end is still TS but the videos are passed through the CC network. Essentially nothing would change except your bandwidth usage would drop dramatically.

In regards the bittorrent option, you probably won't find anything badged as a "server side torrent creator", but then you have no need for one. I'm guessing TS is likely running on Linux (or possibly BSD), in which case there are plenty of console bittorrent tools around. Infact the standard bittorrent client comes with a tool for just this. A very simple way of making this work would be to write a shell script that you set to run every minute or so in cron that checks for new files, runs "btmakemetafile.py" on them, then publishs the .torrent file and runs "btdownloadheadless.py". Obviously there are a few more design implications you'd need to work out to make it robust, but it's certainly very possible. The main issue I can see is in administrating the torrents after the downloads had started, this would either need people to admin it from the console or you would need to allow PHP access to system commands. Neither or which is ideal.

Anyway, I'm going on too much. I don't mean to tell you how to run TS, I'm just finding the problems in designing a system such as this quite interesting :)

[Heatsink]

I reckon that you could raise the required monthly money by continuing as you've started - removing non-contributing accounts, but then in addition make it really easy for people to set up accounts again and pay via cheque/paypal the very modest charge that you're asking for.

Lots of people paying a couple of quid, plus a few banner sponsors (ahem!) paying more would surely reach the target to establish a continuous service up to the bandwidth requirements :o

Steve

[Simon]

Can I ask why you're not sure about Coral Cache? From my perspective on this it seems an almost perfect solution, and requiring as little effort as changing one line of PHP (depending on how monkey works). I imagined Monkey automatically Coralizing the URL that the "download this video" button points to, then everything on the front end is still TS but the videos are passed through the CC network. Essentially nothing would change except your bandwidth usage would drop dramatically.

In regards the bittorrent option, you probably won't find anything badged as a "server side torrent creator", but then you have no need for one. I'm guessing TS is likely running on Linux (or possibly BSD), in which case there are plenty of console bittorrent tools around. Infact the standard bittorrent client comes with a tool for just this. A very simple way of making this work would be to write a shell script that you set to run every minute or so in cron that checks for new files, runs "btmakemetafile.py" on them, then publishs the .torrent file and runs "btdownloadheadless.py". Obviously there are a few more design implications you'd need to work out to make it robust, but it's certainly very possible. The main issue I can see is in administrating the torrents after the downloads had started, this would either need people to admin it from the console or you would need to allow PHP access to system commands. Neither or which is ideal.

Anyway, I'm going on too much. I don't mean to tell you how to run TS, I'm just finding the problems in designing a system such as this quite interesting :-

←

Yeah, going to test Coral Cache out when its all back up. Will add two buttons, primary being the coral (for all files under 50mb) and another secondry hard drive button. Will see how it goes. Just a bit weery as to how it can free. Would also like it to all be self contained. Makes mantainance a lot easier :P

However, i have just discovered the quota option for FTP accounts (updated cpanel finally). Which may solve everything :D

Thanks for all your input. I would'nt class as it as telling me how to run TS, your only trying to help, which i much appreciate :D

Yeah, i remember when posting that BT was origionally a command line interface. I however don't know shell script, and don't fancy writing a whole new front end for it all, especially with all the admin features required to properly administrate it.

Thanks for the suggestion though :)

I reckon that you could raise the required monthly money by continuing as you've started - removing non-contributing accounts, but then in addition make it really easy for people to set up accounts again and pay via cheque/paypal the very modest charge that you're asking for.

Lots of people paying a couple of quid, plus a few banner sponsors (ahem!) paying more would surely reach the target to establish a continuous service up to the bandwidth requirements :)

Steve

Well, ive just found a better way. In the way of quotas. People sign up for a free account. Allowing 200/250mb of videos (figure shown is just as an example). After this, if they wish to upload any more, they may pay for more space. How this is going to work (monthly, yearly, one off) im not entirely sure yet.

Expect another announcement soon :o

Edited February 20, 2005 by Simon

[Jonny Jones]

Sounds like all has been wrapped up nicely. As soon as I have money in my accunt that doesn't start with a minus sign, I'll paypal you some money Si, you legend.

Going back to paying for downloading, it would be breaking the law surely? Nobody has thought about the music aspect of videos. We all use whatever tracks we want based on the knowledge that we won't be selling the videos etc. Therefore, if we start paying for downloads, it would boil down to Si breaking the Law? Just a thought.

In the mean time, I look forward to seeing TS relaunched!

Jonny.