nb88 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Immigration isnt going to stop though is it...on the USA/mexican border for example (went there a while ago), you can clearly see a borderline between extremely rich and extremely poor. Theres not exactly much of a suprise that people are going to jump the border. And immigration has advantages and disadvantages, just like everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkey Posted February 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Off Topic: My mum said to me today that this post will get me put in jail. Now apart from the fact I doubt any of you would report this to the authorities. Has anything I've said been liable to put me behind bars. None of it that I've found unless misunderstood could do so. But maybe I'm stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josephine Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 The last anit-semitic part of anyroo's post is what I'd call incitement to racial hatred, which is an arrestable offence. The way you've said most of your posts (I'm not anal enough to read through and check) doesn't give me anything to reel off and prove that this is what you're doing. However you're preaching a lot of extremist views that have already tried and failed. Bad luck to you sir. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onza-Ash Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 some intresting points there. But i feel with this one...... I also think the giving somebody a death sentance is the easy way out. I'd much rather see criminals really suffer inside a prison for the rest of their lives, than suffer pain for a couple of seconds, and never have to face the world again. ← Why keep someone in jail when their gonna die there? seems pointless and a waste of space/money. Why not just put them in the gas chamber? No leathal injection. Is definetly an easy way out. just puts you to sleep or something non painful. Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) The last anit-semitic part of anyroo's post is what I'd call incitement to racial hatred, which is an arrestable offence. The way you've said most of your posts (I'm not anal enough to read through and check) doesn't give me anything to reel off and prove that this is what you're doing. However you're preaching a lot of extremist views that have already tried and failed. Bad luck to you sir. Joe ← The last part about skipping a verse that depicts Jesus' suffering under the hands of the Jews is not my opinion, but fact, so kindly think about what your writing before accusing me of racism. Im a christian and i know people who have been kicked out of Jewish countries, just for practicing Christianity! Now that is rascist! If you are serious in backing up what you said you will read this, otherwise you are making wild claims of your own opinion, not of emotionally unnaffected fact. Isiah 53: 5-8 (remembering this was written by Jews 800 years before Jesus was born) But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our inequeties; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the ineguities of us all. He was opressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgement he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants. Why do you think they skip this part of their own book? EDIT: Oh, and If you think I'm rascist please do tell me your opinion of a race of people who the British fought and died for in the second world war, who now kill and deport British citizens every day. I want to know your opinion of this Josephine, rather than you just making comments with no real meaning. Edited February 1, 2005 by andyroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_seamons Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 some intresting points there. But i feel with this one...... Why keep someone in jail when their gonna die there? seems pointless and a waste of space/money. Why not just put them in the gas chamber? No leathal injection. Is definetly an easy way out. just puts you to sleep or something non painful. Ash ← Because that would not really make them pay. Yeah, they'll be dead, but that's not really the point. It would be more of a mind f**k for them to stay in the same place for the rest of their life...where they could really think about what they've done, and really pay for it. After a while, most people would want to kill themselves. Knowing that you're never going to leave prson would make you pretty suicidal. Being constantly watched so you couldn't kill yourself would be the ultimate punishment. They want to take the easy way out...you don't let them. Make them suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picki Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) this convo is probly dead and buried...but ill put my point across. my cousin was murdered by her x boyfriend, when she was 18, this was like 4 or 5 years ago now. He got sent down for life. The thing is this peice of scum is now asking for his sentance to be pissed about with because hes sorry, and has been a good boy in prison! What pisses me off is that this is actually being cosidered! One of my family members lives was taken...and what punishment is given? he gets 3 meals a day, tv, a roof and as much anal as he wants <if hes into that stuff> he bloody pleaded guilty ffs...why? because everyone knew he did it and it would reduce his sentance. the death penalty for all those who are proven guilty of cold blooded murder should die, the same was as they killed. the scum should be eradicated, burned or something. matrix stylee body cells might work? the whole law system suks massive arse! i hate it personally. what the monkey dude said was kinda right, all these ball sacks who rape taxes by having 10000000 kids and no jobs should be ridded. it should be a life for life. (Y) <sorry for spelling and if i already said something that some one else has> EDIT: just read above post...hate me for not reading the whole thread. they should not be allowed rooms, more like real small compartments, no heating, no bed, no bog, crap food, and only let out once a day for a shit! make the bastards suffer......or just kill em Edited February 1, 2005 by picki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onza-Ash Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) Because that would not really make them pay. Yeah, they'll be dead, but that's not really the point. It would be more of a mind f**k for them to stay in the same place for the rest of their life...where they could really think about what they've done, and really pay for it. After a while, most people would want to kill themselves. Knowing that you're never going to leave prson would make you pretty suicidal. Being constantly watched so you couldn't kill yourself would be the ultimate punishment. They want to take the easy way out...you don't let them. Make them suffer. ← Life sentance no longer means life anyway does it? they usually get let out after about 22/24 years. And havent prision cells changed? Their not as bad as what they used to be are they? i dont think prision is much of a punishment to be honest. Ash Edited February 1, 2005 by Onza-Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Limbo (Trials Chimp) Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 The Nazi party did have good ideas. The economy of Germany was being toppled by the Jewish culture, which was in charge of Germanys banks, shops and the like, who favoured each other. A German would buy a loaf of bread for a pound at the bakers run by a Jew, but a Jew could buy the same loaf from the same shop for a quarter of the price. The same for banks, being Jewish got you cheaper loans, etc, so to be honest, this was the first racist actionin Germany before the Nazi party was even in power. (However I do not agree with the Nazi party's actions in trying to terminate this racism) The Jewish culture has always been a very secular culture, more Chrictians have been killed by Jews since the second world war than Jews were killed by Germans. Think about it; Why was there that memorial day for the Jews killed in concentration camps recently? Was there a rememberance day for the Irish Gypsies, africans or christians that were killed in concentration camps? No. Why should we be made to feel guilty about all these Jews dieing anyway? We were on their side trying to save them! After the war, the surviving Jews from the camps proclaimed that 5 million Jews were killed at Auscwitz (sp?). In the 1980's, the figure was then sheepishly changed by the Jews to 3.5 million, after questions were asked. Last year that figure was then changed again to 1 million. Why the huge whopper of a lie? And anyway, most of the Jews in the camps were kept their for the war, and released afterwards. Think about this: why would the Germans record the details of every captured Jew, give them an id tattoo, and pay for travel for them to go halfway across Europe, just to be killed? That would just be illogical and pointless. My very long winded point being that, on the whole, very few of us on this forum no anything about anything, we are just filled to the brim with media hype. You cant trust what people tell you, especially such a hypocritical culture such as the Jews. Let me tell you one last fact about the Jew. The Jew killed Jesus, denounced him as the messiah and are currently still waiting for him to come. In the Torah, their Holy book, in Isiah, which was written long before Jesus was around, it says that God will send the Messiah, and the Jews will not realise it is him, and will torture and kill him. And they did! It says it in their own Holy book! The Jews read and re-read that book year aftr year at their equivilent of church, but when they come to the verse that says that they will kill Jesus, they skip it. Talk about a pile of knobcheese. ← This is a pretty good example of why religion irritates me so much. So according to some very old and probably even more inacurate books the Jews killed Jesus 2000 years ago. Why the hell does that make any difference to things now? The reason we remember what happened in the concentration camps is nothing to do with feeling guilty. Its remembering that something terrible happened and showing respect for the dead. You should always try to learn from history to prevent the same mistakes happening again, so i'm glad that there is a rememberance day. You cant prove Jesus was the messiah, you cant prove he even excisted, so therefore you are misleading people when you say it is a fact the Jews killed him. And even if they did it was 2 millenuims ago, dont you thik you should have got over it by now, imagine if we were held accountable for all the mistakes of our ancient ancestors (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Look back in our countries past. Look at the amount of crime when punishment was harsh. It was pretty minimal. Life was harder then yes, but that would mean more crime wouldn't it. But there wasn't so if the punishment was harsh nowadays that should mean we would be pretty sorted. The death penalty needs to be brought back even if only used in the most sevre cases. ← You say 'when punishment was harsh'? Well, if we say hanging was abolishind in 1890s/1900s, Corporal Punishment was abolished in 1920ish, basically around a century ago, what do you think the religious climate of Britain was? Yes, the Irish especially, were God fearing christians, do you not think they were scared to commit crime? I think you have to take into prospective that is then, this is now. I think's it's a bit of an unfair comparisson to compare two different times periods like that. I havn't really got an opinion on the rest of this topic, although it does make good reading and shows some very interseting/valid points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Limbo (Trials Chimp) Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 You say 'when punishment was harsh'? Well, if we say hanging was abolishind in 1890s/1900s, Corporal Punishment was abolished in 1920ish, basically around a century ago, what do you think the religious climate of Britain was? Yes, the Irish especially, were God fearing christians, do you not think they were scared to commit crime? I think you have to take into prospective that is then, this is now. I think's it's a bit of an unfair comparisson to compare two different times periods like that. I havn't really got an opinion on the rest of this topic, although it does make good reading and shows some very interseting/valid points. ← You've got to offer a deterrant to people though. I dont think the death penalty or corporal punishment are things we should bring back, but harsher prison sentances and more basic conditons for prisoners would be a step in the right direction. If you're thinking of committing a crime part of that decision is going to be what will happen to you if you're nicked for it, and another will be the probability of getting caught, so therefore harsher sentances and more police make sense. I'm not really sure that a century ago everyone was as god fearing as you say, but I cant think of anything to back that up with and religion was more popular in those days I suppose. Going back a bit, Mr Monkey, I dont think you could be arrested for anything you've said in this thread. There is a law about incitement to racial hatred as Josephine said, but I think thats reserved for the most extreme cases (or when the Government needs an excuse to get rid of someone eg: Abu Hamza(sp?)) Interesting how there is suposedly free speech but saying some things will get you locked up. Then again we're supposed to have trial by jury, the right to a fair trial etc etc... I'm kind of rambling off topic again, but someone on a TV programme a couple of years ago qouted something like "When you go to war you become more and more like your enemy". Before the war in Iraq the Governments here and in the US had a lot to say about Sadam and how there was no free speech and people were locked up without trial and tortured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Jimbo Limbo; What I'm getting at is that the Jews don't deny that they crucified someone who did miracles, true or not, they believe it happened. And they also believe in their Holy book which says that they will do it, so again, true or not, they believe both parts as part of their religion, so whats the point? My point about they memorial day was that, we are encouraged to remember all the Jews killed in concentration camps, but we aren't encouraged to give so much as a thought to the other races that were slaughtered at the hands of the Nazis. Like I said, the Jews were not the highest percentage of those killed, so why is it them who are remembered? We dont have a memorial day for the millions that died after the second world war of the flu, so many died from the flu in the year after the war, that is was in fact more than that died in the war itself. We dont have a memorial day for the 150 thousand people that die every five days due to starvation around the world. think about it, thats a tsunami every five days. Goes to show media hype and where its focused really. Another example of something I'm sure people would call me rascist for saying, but is in actual fact fact and not opinion, is the religion of Islam. The basis of their religion is peace, and nothing but. But according to their Holy books, they have declared Jihad, or "Holy War" where they are instructed by Allah that for them to enter heaven, they must kill someone who is not a Muslim. Other wise no heaven for them. Every Muslim who believes in there faith wants to kill us. Someone from my church was going round prisons in Britain telling people about God (guy called Tony), and their was a Muslim there doing the same, and he asked the Muslim if he believed he had to kill someone to get to heaven, and the Muslim replied, "Yes, we are in Jihad and it is what Allah commands," and Tony asked the Muslim if he would kill him, and the Muslim said yes. Charming. I think that is more rascist than anything in the world, if you believe that you must kill everyone else becasue they are not of your own race? And they have the cheek to live here, when they are all planning to kill us? Opinions please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb88 Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 (edited) Another example of something I'm sure people would call me rascist for saying, but is in actual fact fact and not opinion, is the religion of Islam. The basis of their religion is peace, and nothing but. But according to their Holy books, they have declared Jihad, or "Holy War" where they are instructed by Allah that for them to enter heaven, they must kill someone who is not a Muslim. Other wise no heaven for them. Every Muslim who believes in there faith wants to kill us. Someone from my church was going round prisons in Britain telling people about God (guy called Tony), and their was a Muslim there doing the same, and he asked the Muslim if he believed he had to kill someone to get to heaven, and the Muslim replied, "Yes, we are in Jihad and it is what Allah commands," and Tony asked the Muslim if he would kill him, and the Muslim said yes. Charming. I think that is more rascist than anything in the world, if you believe that you must kill everyone else becasue they are not of your own race? And they have the cheek to live here, when they are all planning to kill us? Opinions please... ← Jihad actually means fighting for Allah when there is prosecution against who is fighting (so other religions fight muslims), and it is totally forbidden to kill in the name of religion when there is peace. Usually to the western mind, jihad means 'holy war' or terrorism but that is not true at all... islam is a very peaceful religion. Jihad basically means doing ones best to preach Islam (or fighting in total self defense). So either read the Quran and get your facts straight, or dont post here with your lies. Thanks. Edited February 2, 2005 by Nozmeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 So either read the Quran and get your facts straight, or dont post here with your lies. ← (Y) Glad someone said it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Jihad actually means fighting for Allah when there is prosecution against who is fighting (so other religions fight muslims), and it is totally forbidden to kill in the name of religion when there is peace. Usually to the western mind, jihad means 'holy war' or terrorism but that is not true at all... islam is a very peaceful religion. Jihad basically means doing ones best to preach Islam (or fighting in total self defense). So either read the Quran and get your facts straight, or dont post here with your lies. Thanks. ← But Jihad has been declared, so you get your facts right, I didnt make it up, it was said by a Muslim, and I'm just passing it on. Tell that Muslim guy hes lying, but seeing as he is an Islamic religious leader, he probably knows a bit more about it than you. I can't think of anything more rascist than killing someone because they are of a different religion. Islam teaches peace you say: Then why, in Saudi Arabia is there a police force dedicated to beating up Muslims who dont attend prayer at the mosque at the correct times? And Muslims say that Jesus will come again and tell everyone that they should follow Suleman, and those who don't will be slaughtered by all the Muslims. Very peaceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb88 Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 But Jihad has been declared, so you get your facts right, I didnt make it up, it was said by a Muslim, and I'm just passing it on. Tell that Muslim guy hes lying, but seeing as he is an Islamic religious leader, he probably knows a bit more about it than you. I can't think of anything more rascist than killing someone because they are of a different religion. Islam teaches peace you say: Then why, in Saudi Arabia is there a police force dedicated to beating up Muslims who dont attend prayer at the mosque at the correct times? And Muslims say that Jesus will come again and tell everyone that they should follow Suleman, and those who don't will be slaughtered by all the Muslims. Very peaceful. ← But jihad does not mean 'holy war', so how has it been declared? Jihad is known to mean 'battling with the demons' or similar...basically struggling to fight away the bad things in life and fighting temptation to maintain peace. The term 'Jihad' in arabic means 'To Struggle'. I can't think of anything more racist than killing someone because they are of a different religion either, and it does happen, with all religions, but its a harsh world. Look at the war in iraq for instance. Why did the americans attack iraq? There is no link to 9/11 there and no weapons of mass destruction, yet SO many innocent iraqi's die. There are extremist muslims and lots of types, but to be honest i dont class those who kill (the terrorists) as muslims. I suppose different muslims have different beliefs in a way, and i think that islam should be a peaceful religion. About saudi arabia - i think your just full of media hype. There are a few police in the extremist parts of saudi where the police force is especially harsh, but it is not like that at all, and is a very nice peaceful country in actual fact. You havent been there, you havent seen a saudi police beating up someone for not going to prayer...so how can you justify that? If you really want to learn about Islam, i suggest you read the quran or look online for views on islam and see for yourself what its all about. I know you hate muslims (i think you said you shouted it in a bar in one of your other posts...well done for that, you should be proud) but maybe if you look at the different views on Islam you'll think differently. Anyway thats me done......you obviously dont know much and are just repeating what a 'muslim guy' is saying and probably exagerating it. Noz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 About saudi arabia - i think your just full of media hype. There are a few police in the extremist parts of saudi where the police force is especially harsh, but it is not like that at all, and is a very nice peaceful country in actual fact. You havent been there, you havent seen a saudi police beating up someone for not going to prayer...so how can you justify that? ← My dad worked out in saudi for 10 years, and its what he saw day after day there. So, no, not media hype at all. He has seen one of his friends arrested for practicing "black magic" or namely, coin tricks. He brought back a saudi paper, which has a column in it every week about who has been killed for comitting a crime. He explained one to me about a main who had raped someone- his punishment was to have a brick wall toppled on top of him by a bulldozer. Again, not too peaceful. He has seen the way the people there treat their religion- drinking alcohol being an extreme no no in Islam- yet every weekend hundreds of thousands- and he has seen this- of Muslims travel over the bridge to Bahrain to get absolutely hammered. And that Muslim guy was recorded along with Tony for an article in a prison outreach leaflet, and he just happened to say all about Jihad when it was his turn to talk to the prisoners, and Tony asked him about Jihad and that was his answer, he said it had been declared. Also I dont hate Muslims - when i lived in Lewisham (where white people are an ethnic minority) all my friends were black or asian. And I never have shouted at anyone in a bar - I don't go to bars because I dont drink. So I think I deserve an apology for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb88 Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 (edited) And I never have shouted at anyone in a bar - I don't go to bars because I dont drink. So I think I deserve an apology for that. ← Sorry i thought you were someone else on here. Very sorry for saying that. Was convinced it was you. I'll reply later im at college at the mo Noz. And about the muslims who drink - they are the people i dont agree with at all. If they do things like that then they are not practicing muslims in my mind. Edited February 2, 2005 by Nozmeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 (edited) Its like with everything really - i know christians who are all so holy, but in real life they are complete twats who wouldnt help ayone but themselves. apology accepted! :P EDIT: Its not that im narow minded and having a go at muslims, or jews; i just want to understand why some things are done the way that they are. People criticise christianity all the time, and i try my best to explain myself, but its still interesting to hear peoples opinions on these topics. Edited February 2, 2005 by andyroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 But Jihad has been declared, so you get your facts right, I didnt make it up, it was said by a Muslim, and I'm just passing it on. Tell that Muslim guy hes lying, but seeing as he is an Islamic religious leader, he probably knows a bit more about it than you. ← Surely as a Christian, you're aware of all the different ways of reading the bible, different interpretations of its meanings. If you take it all literally, it's a load of bollocks. I'm sure even you can admit to that? There are many things that don't make sense, or just simply couldn't happen. And a lot of stuff is, I'm sure, exaggerated beyond belief. Does this mean that the bible is useless? No, not really. I'm not a Christian, but I do believe that the bible has some good morals in its stories. With that in mind, then, I'm sure there are many ways of reading the Qu'ran. Most if not all muslims that I have met are peace loving people. It pisses them off that muslims get such a bad name in the press etc. This is propagated by 1) People like that Muslim guy you were talking about (Whose name escapes me) who doesn't speak for all muslims, and 2) People like you, spreading rumours and mis-information. What you're saying is like saying that because the BNP are British, therefore all British people are racist. i think you said you shouted it in a bar in one of your other posts...well done for that, you should be proud← That was Snappel (Ian Thornton). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 But it is true that Jihad requires them to kill someone to gain entrance to heaven, and that Suleman will command all Muslims to kill everyone else at the end of the world? It doesnt say Suleman will command the Al Qaeda to kill everyone else and all the other Muslims don't need to kill anyone. It says they all should. Not just a select group. So thats not the same as the BNP representing Britain is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 But it is true that Jihad requires them to kill someone to gain entrance to heaven ← No. Read my post. I've not read the Qu'ran (neither have you :P ), but I'm pretty sure it doesn't say that. It's just one person's interpretation (/excuse to be a violent bitch :P ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 It definately says that when Suleman comes at the end of the world, anyone who doesnt worship him will be killed. Not very nice. I'd rather have a religion that says that anyone can enter the kingdom of heaven, rather than, follow me or die! Wouldnt you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb88 Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 (edited) Jihad does not mean killing someone to gain entrance to heaven! I can't even imagine what would happen if that was true, every Muslim i have met (thats half my family, and absolutely loads more people) wouldnt hurt a fly. Jihad is NOT holy war. And saying that when suleman comes at the end of the world, all the muslims will go to heaven, is the same as another holy book saying that "all believers of me will go to heaven, and the rest to hell", it doesnt mean that muslim people are going to go and kill people does it! Fair enough you'd rather have a religion that says everyone gets into heaven, but i cant even think of one. Edited February 2, 2005 by Nozmeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 And what about the end of the world? I dont want Suleman to get me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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