Mark W Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Right. Chavs/Townies/whatever are in every town. They're shit everywhere. Whatever bad experiences you've had, we've probably all had pretty similar ones. Therefore, you don't need to post about townie scum and how gay they are or however you want to phrase it, unless it's genuinely funny and/or interesting (that doesn't mean the punchline is "And then I said f**k off."). There are quite a few threads about chav/police related matters in NMC all the time, and there are generally a few on here, and it'd just be way better to not have to have them here. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 (edited) Well once a few of us were in town a bunch of towies came up to us and started asking the usuall questions then one of them said to me was i stonned, and i was like what the hell. So after about 5 minutes i said yes and pulled out a lump of tar, they were all like wooooooooooow ill buy it off you i said i couldnt it was my personal stash and i needed it. But all of a sudden some random bloke came up to me ask to have my bike to ride down to the pub, of course i said no so then he grabs my handlebars and tries pulling the bike and pull it back and ride off. The townies/rude boys were telling me to give my bike to this drunking bum so we all cycled off. What a bunch of c*cks :lol: Edit: hmmmmmmm me no understand then (N) lol oh and by the way bongo congrats on the senior member (N) Edited December 2, 2004 by damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONGO Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 i'm so glad i wasted a whole 1.5 minutes reading that captivating piece of excillerating literature. Therefore, you don't need to post about townie scum and how gay they are or however you want to phrase it, unless it's genuinely funny and/or interesting john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave85 Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Well once a few of us were in town a bunch of towies came up to us and started asking the usuall questions then one of them said to me was i stonned, and i was like what the hell. So after about 5 minutes i said yes and pulled out a lump of tar, they were all like wooooooooooow ill buy it off you i said i couldnt it was my personal stash and i needed it. But all of a sudden some random bloke came up to me ask to have my bike to ride down to the pub, of course i said no so then he grabs my handlebars and tries pulling the bike and pull it back and ride off. The townies/rude boys were telling me to give my bike to this drunking bum so we all cycled off. What a bunch of c*cks :lol: ← erm, i think mark was after stopping this kinda story being told (N) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 you don't need to post about townie scum, unless it's genuinely funny and/or interesting (that doesn't mean the punchline is "And then I said f**k off."). ← Lol indeed Mark (N) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echobikes Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Well once a few of us were in town a bunch of towies came up to us and started asking the usuall questions then one of them said to me was i stonned, and i was like what the hell. So after about 5 minutes i said yes and pulled out a lump of tar, they were all like wooooooooooow ill buy it off you i said i couldnt it was my personal stash and i needed it. ← Well at least that bit was kinda funny... fooling them and all (N) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Well at least that bit was kinda funny... fooling them and all (N) ← Was he doing it deliberately or actually seriously posting?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmowerman Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 yeah! these chav threads are really starting to piss me off aswell, its like reading the same thread over and over again. Whats the point in starting a new one? just add to the old ones (N) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the666ers Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Right here is my 2cents about it all. I think we should all look at it from a different angle for once and actually step back and look at the situation from an un biased point of view. I think I would be totally fair in saying that everyone in this world is a victim of their environment, now look at all the different kinds of people there are and think about their environment and how it will of affected them. I expect that 90% of us on here will of been brought up in a relatively wealthy middle class family and will of had a relatively stable and nourishing up bringing where we have always had boundries and guidance to aid out development, as our parents mould us into what is considered acceptable in this society. That 90% of us will be the ones on here complaining about all the Ned's out there and how they are all complete scum and genreally make the world a shittier place, which I agree they usually are/do, but think about it for a second and imagine the way they will of been brought up. All the Ned's out there who terrorize you will of been brought up in lower class family's and will of come from a much rougher background. Now as they too are victims of their environment they will not of had these boundries to aid their development as they mature, in fact most of them have probably had none and as they grow up will have been used to being able to do whatever they want as their parents won't have been there to say "No" and give them a slap round the wrist. I know that a lot of them will of had very rough up bringings and as said this will reflect in how they have moulded as they have grown. They won't have any respect for others, as they won't of been shown any from their parents and they will be violent, as I expect their parents were violent to them so it's the only way the know how to deal with anything. If you are only shown a certain way of doing things you will never do them differently like with any learning process, so the matter of the fact is that they behave in such shit ways bacause it's the only way they know. Because of their shite up bringing I expect they all have chips on their shoulders about life and a lot of their behavior comes from jelousy. They will be jelous of your comfortable home and your decent bike, the will be jelous of your decent clothes and everything like that. It's human nature to act maliciously when jelous so that explains their stone age behavior when they apporach you. A lot of the time it isnt provoked I know, but the sheer fact that you have been better off is enough to set them off. We live in such a class influenced world that is dominated by us Middle class white people and there will always be certain groups of people (neds) rebelling against it. I might get flamed for showing a degree of sympathy, but I myself appreciate how lucky I am to be where I am now in a 4 bed detatched in a nice area. If I had been brought up in a council flat in Brixton, I expect I would be a totally different person. I also won't have had so many opportunities and guidance with life I wouldnt have the direction I have now or anything. I'd be nothing. I have rambled on but I think what I'm trying to say is: If a Ned approaches you and pisses you off, behave how you have been taught and just evade the situation if it's gonna turn out shit. If they are genuinely interested, be nice to them and show them a little respect and they might, just maybe show you some. I think everyone should step back and look at themselves and realise how lucky they are, and if they had been brought up in ghetto's who they might be now. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on that? u must be joking Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 I think the above pretty much says what is needed. Well done :lol: Nice to see someone taking a thoughtful approach to this situation. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkey Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Right here is my 2cents about it all. I think we should all look at it from a different angle for once and actually step back and look at the situation from an un biased point of view. I think I would be totally fair in saying that everyone in this world is a victim of their environment, now look at all the different kinds of people there are and think about their environment and how it will of affected them. I expect that 90% of us on here will of been brought up in a relatively wealthy middle class family and will of had a relatively stable and nourishing up bringing where we have always had boundries and guidance to aid out development, as our parents mould us into what is considered acceptable in this society. That 90% of us will be the ones on here complaining about all the Ned's out there and how they are all complete scum and genreally make the world a shittier place, which I agree they usually are/do, but think about it for a second and imagine the way they will of been brought up. All the Ned's out there who terrorize you will of been brought up in lower class family's and will of come from a much rougher background. Now as they too are victims of their environment they will not of had these boundries to aid their development as they mature, in fact most of them have probably had none and as they grow up will have been used to being able to do whatever they want as their parents won't have been there to say "No" and give them a slap round the wrist. I know that a lot of them will of had very rough up bringings and as said this will reflect in how they have moulded as they have grown. They won't have any respect for others, as they won't of been shown any from their parents and they will be violent, as I expect their parents were violent to them so it's the only way the know how to deal with anything. If you are only shown a certain way of doing things you will never do them differently like with any learning process, so the matter of the fact is that they behave in such shit ways bacause it's the only way they know. Because of their shite up bringing I expect they all have chips on their shoulders about life and a lot of their behavior comes from jelousy. They will be jelous of your comfortable home and your decent bike, the will be jelous of your decent clothes and everything like that. It's human nature to act maliciously when jelous so that explains their stone age behavior when they apporach you. A lot of the time it isnt provoked I know, but the sheer fact that you have been better off is enough to set them off. We live in such a class influenced world that is dominated by us Middle class white people and there will always be certain groups of people (neds) rebelling against it. I might get flamed for showing a degree of sympathy, but I myself appreciate how lucky I am to be where I am now in a 4 bed detatched in a nice area. If I had been brought up in a council flat in Brixton, I expect I would be a totally different person. I also won't have had so many opportunities and guidance with life I wouldnt have the direction I have now or anything. I'd be nothing. I have rambled on but I think what I'm trying to say is: If a Ned approaches you and pisses you off, behave how you have been taught and just evade the situation if it's gonna turn out shit. If they are genuinely interested, be nice to them and show them a little respect and they might, just maybe show you some. I think everyone should step back and look at themselves and realise how lucky they are, and if they had been brought up in ghetto's who they might be now. James ← Or maybe they're thick ignorant f**ks? Some lad beat le shizer out of me, (chav of course) and my headteacher blamed it on his upbringing too. My mum and dad are divorced. Not much money, never was. I live right next to a council estate. I am one of the nicest people you will meet in real life (Not over the internet I'm just a twat here) But in real life I'm nice :) I'm always joking about and I don't take much seriously and I try hard at school, I believe to get anywhere in life I need to earn it. Chavs do not think this, they want things others have. Therefore they steal it and mug others for money to get what they want. I can't be bothered to type anymore because my right arm has just started aching really badly. But you get my general jist. To say it's because of their upbringing is appaulingly ignorant. Right or Wrong are mainly a person's conscience (sp?) Nothing else. Don't tell me people are brought up badly by their parents my mate is in a similar situation to me but worse. And he's just as nice as I am and is willing to help people out no matter what. So don't spout BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the666ers Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Or maybe they're thick ignorant f**ks? Some lad beat le shizer out of me, (chav of course) and my headteacher blamed it on his upbringing too. My mum and dad are divorced. Not much money, never was. I live right next to a council estate. I am one of the nicest people you will meet in real life (Not over the internet I'm just a twat here) But in real life I'm nice :) I'm always joking about and I don't take much seriously and I try hard at school, I believe to get anywhere in life I need to earn it. Chavs do not think this, they want things others have. Therefore they steal it and mug others for money to get what they want. I can't be bothered to type anymore because my right arm has just started aching really badly. But you get my general jist. To say it's because of their upbringing is appaulingly ignorant. Right or Wrong are mainly a person's conscience (sp?) Nothing else. Don't tell me people are brought up badly by their parents my mate is in a similar situation to me but worse. And he's just as nice as I am and is willing to help people out no matter what. So don't spout BS. ← I think you have a chip on your shoulder too as it were. My parents are divorced. Only recently have we managed to sort out stuff out Monkey, so don't you dare suggest I'm "spouting shit". I'm not going into my personal life any further, but I can guarantee you,I know what I am talking about enough to have a balnced view on it all. If you got beaten up and your headteacher didn't want to deal with it fairly, he was probably scared of the kids parents if he made a fuss. Think about it. I didn't say everyone who has had a difficult upbringing were neds, but it's fact that a lot are and their up bringing is a good scapegoat for their behaviour. Right or wrong? If everyone had this perception the world wouldn't be quite as f**ked as it is. Why do you think there are serial rapists and wars and all the other shit more serious than a few kids causing trouble. Think about the wider scope as I said before, not just if your friend and you have had difficult up bringings and have turned out ok. If thats all your concerned with, your the ignorant shortsighted one. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkey Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 I think you have a chip on your shoulder too as it were. My parents are divorced. Only recently have we managed to sort out stuff out Monkey, so don't you dare suggest I'm "spouting shit". I'm not going into my personal life any further, but I can guarantee you,I know what I am talking about enough to have a balnced view on it all. If you got beaten up and your headteacher didn't want to deal with it fairly, he was probably scared of the kids parents if he made a fuss. Think about it. I didn't say everyone who has had a difficult upbringing were neds, but it's fact that a lot are and their up bringing is a good scapegoat for their behaviour. Right or wrong? If everyone had this perception the world wouldn't be quite as f**ked as it is. Why do you think there are serial rapists and wars and all the other shit more serious than a few kids causing trouble. Think about the wider scope as I said before, not just if your friend and you have had difficult up bringings and have turned out ok. If thats all your concerned with, your the ignorant shortsighted one. James ← What? I was stating facts about my life and how upbringing has nothing to do with how a person behaves. It may slightly influence it, but the parents who don't care about their kids staying out all night only help their children become more twattish. If the kid wants to stay out all night he will, he has a perfectly good and simple choice, go home or stay out get drunk start fights etc. Oh and from what you've said saying your parents are divorced wouldn't make a slight difference. You said you were middle class. No problems with money there then I guess? Yer that's something your missing. That f**ks you up more than anything, when you know your mum's struggling to keep up with payments and buying food. So stop SPOUTING f**kING SHIT. because I'm getting really pissed off with your arrogance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonMack Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Sorry to stir shit here but upbringing can influence it IMO. Although not in the ways which we sometimes expect. James didnt say that everyone who lives near or on a council estate is a chav. I know peoplpe who live on council estates and they are really nice people, some of the council estates around here are fairly rough for what I'm used to (5 bedroom bungalow on the hillside of a small valley) . Yes my parents have always had money, and I am a nice guy, Monkey, you said how you have had family problems and money problems, but you have been brought up to be a nice guy too, thats because youre parents have probably looked after you quite well, when the childs parents have no respect of authority or the country then their children are going to be brought up in the same way, but one of my best mates brother has turned into a total chav now, he starts fights and mouths people off, because he's just like that, he has his dads short temper and it shows very strongly, he idolises his dad, and his dads youth, and when his dad was a child he was a scouse chav and had no respect for anyone because of his upbringing, he has now put that all behind him and he is a quite nice guy, but because this kid wants to be just like his dad was, he has turned into a chav. I dunno where that went, if it made sense or what im trying to say, but basically, upbringing has a lot, but so does the childs attitude, and friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkey Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Sorry to stir shit here but upbringing can influence it IMO. Although not in the ways which we sometimes expect. James didnt say that everyone who lives near or on a council estate is a chav. I know peoplpe who live on council estates and they are really nice people, some of the council estates around here are fairly rough for what I'm used to (5 bedroom bungalow on the hillside of a small valley) . Yes my parents have always had money, and I am a nice guy, Monkey, you said how you have had family problems and money problems, but you have been brought up to be a nice guy too, thats because youre parents have probably looked after you quite well, when the childs parents have no respect of authority or the country then their children are going to be brought up in the same way, but one of my best mates brother has turned into a total chav now, he starts fights and mouths people off, because he's just like that, he has his dads short temper and it shows very strongly, he idolises his dad, and his dads youth, and when his dad was a child he was a scouse chav and had no respect for anyone because of his upbringing, he has now put that all behind him and he is a quite nice guy, but because this kid wants to be just like his dad was, he has turned into a chav. I dunno where that went, if it made sense or what im trying to say, but basically, upbringing has a lot, but so does the childs attitude, and friends. ← I do understand this, but that's like saying a child is born with intelligence. Which is not true, a child may have a better memory. But this does not increase intelligence. My memory is shite, but I'm clever. More to the point, yes Parents can influence a child. But in no way do they influence more than 20% of a child. The child will choose to be how he pleases. If they want to be 100% Cnut they can be. If they choose not to be that's the way they'll be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the666ers Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 (edited) I did actually say "Only recently have we managed to sort ourselves out" You really are arrogant monkey christ. You say a kid has a choice but my point is they rarely do. He can't choose where he lives and if everyone of his friends around him are drinking and fighting it would be hard for him to not be a part of it. It's like if all your friends we having a drink you would, or smoking, you would It's called peer pressure. It's your environment. You can't choose who your parents are. You need to calm down mate, it's pointless you getting pissy at me if you don't agree. Probably would be best if you weren't announcing your money problems over the internet and all, whats it going to achieve (Y) If you have had difficulties fine but I don't see how that bears any relevance to the topic if you aren't a chav..... James Edited December 2, 2004 by the666ers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkey Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 I did actually say "Only recently have we managed to sort ourselves out" You really are arrogant monkey christ. You say a kid has a choice but my point is they rarely do. He can't choose where he lives and if everyone of his friends around him are drinking and fighting it would be hard for him to not be a part of it. It's like if all your friends we having a drink you would, or smoking, you would It's called peer pressure. It's your environment. You need to calm down mate, it's pointless you getting pissy at me if you don't agree. Probably would be best if you weren't announcing your money problems over the internet and all, whats it going to achieve (Y) If you have had difficulties fine but I don't see how that bears any relevance to the topic if you aren't a chav..... James ← Well, you obviously are quite a naive person. All of my friends do drink I don't. Strange wouldn't you say. I make my own choices. I stopped talking to people because of the way the acted. All my choices, proving I did have a choice in all of those matters. Also I don't give a shit about my money problems, I don't care if other people no. If they want to take the piss they can, if just shows how retarded they are. Also it does bear relevance, due to the fact less money means worse conditions usually. So it does, you just think of it on more than one level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the666ers Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 It's really not getting through is it (Y) Ok so your friends drink and you don't. Did you grow up with your friends always drinking, your parents always drinking, and nothing else to do because you couldn't afford your bike or your pc or your games console. No. You had other things to keep you occupied, and now you are old enough to make a informed independant decision. When you are young you absorb information at a massively increased rate, and what is going on around you greatly effects your development. If your grown up and people are drinking and you don't want to then you don't, but the case is usually that it's been drilled into their minds at such a young age they don't know any different as it is their freeeakin ENVIRONMENT and there was nothing else to keep them away (bikes, pc's, games consoles etc). OK? James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkey Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 It's really not getting through is it (Y) Ok so your friends drink and you don't. Did you grow up with your friends always drinking, your parents always drinking, and nothing else to do because you couldn't afford your bike or your pc or your games console. No. You had other things to keep you occupied, and now you are old enough to make a informed independant decision. When you are young you absorb information at a massively increased rate, and what is going on around you greatly effects your development. If your grown up and people are drinking and you don't want to then you don't, but the case is usually that it's been drilled into their minds at such a young age they don't know any different as it is their freeeakin ENVIRONMENT and there was nothing else to keep them away (bikes, pc's, games consoles etc). OK? James ← Hmmmm my friends started drinking at about 12-13 some of the people I was hanging around with in Primary School in Year 5 I stopped doing so later in Year 5 because I wasn't stupid enough to let them pull me down. I was making my own choices before then, suchas not to follow my friends onto the railway tracks mainly because I was afraid, but I also knew it was the wrong thing to do. My Nan, Other Nan and Grandad all smoked, I used to see them everyday now two of them have died due to it. I knew it was bad to smoke so I didn't like it, and I always told them to stop. Like young children do they speak there mind without thinking. I dunno what else to type but I know there's some other stuff you'll say then I'll give my opinion, and because it's different to yours you'll say It's not going through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonMack Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Trying to be a bit of a peace keeper here, you obviously have varying feelings on this topic, you just have to agree to disagree, although its making a good topic its going in circles. Just dont want to see any unnecesarry hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomturd Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 I knew it was bad to smoke so I didn't like it, and I always told them to stop. ← How did you know it was bad to smoke? Im guessing your parents either told you, or you were told in school - eitherway you werent born with that knowledge. I think what the666ers is trying to say is that some people (chavs) do not have parents who tell them that its bad to smoke, and who would not attempt to stop them if they did. This can be applied to drinking/fighting/all the things which make chavs, chavs. I had a decent upbringing, I like to think im socially acceptable, but im not so narrow minded to think that if had a worse upbringing Id be exactly the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colly Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 they keep asking me where is your seat ou, verbal reply fook off. a lad was resting on my bars last nite, kicking my tyre, while i was eating my chips. passed my chips to my mate, then bout to banjo him but he ran. :) they not that bad up here. but still hate the little bas@rds. some people just think he is a charver cos he is wearing addidas stuff. a charver to me, is some one who just cause's trouble, drinks cider down the bus stop. etc. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-A Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 I have rambled on but I think what I'm trying to say is: If a Ned approaches you and pisses you off, behave how you have been taught and just evade the situation if it's gonna turn out shit. If they are genuinely interested, be nice to them and show them a little respect and they might, just maybe show you some. ← I'd just like to say, using this approach, and by treating them with some respect, atleast when they are within ear shot, I have had little chav problems, and even when they are getting roudy with friends have said "nah leave him alone he hasn't said anything". The people who seem to have the most peroblems with them are the sort of people who looks down on them, to their faces, and talk to them with such resentment, and allways take the piss even when talking face to face. These people have got in to fights been mugged and generally harassed. I dont want to get dragged down into the argument, asll Im saying is theres way round trouble with these guys in most situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Saying that though, Chav'ism isn't relegated to purely "lower"/"working" class people. I know plenty of people round here who have well-to-do parents, who are given all that they want and are still chav, rude little bastards who just go round punching people. I know plenty of people here who live in your average sorta two-parent household who are again chav wankers. It has as much to do with a child's decisions as just their parents. Someone I'm friends with here has a Mum who does her best for him and helps him all the time (Be it money, taking him places, buying him stuff, whatever) and he's had a very safe, stable upbringing, and he's just being a complete dickhead a lot of the time now. Equally, most chav scum are around adolescent age, so they're going to be doing the whole "rebellious" thing. Also, the media is now perpetrating that it's OK or 'cool' to be chav. Plus the fact the judicial system is stacked in favour of whoever is the person being accused of assault/whatever means that it's free reign for them. I'm in upper sixth form at our high school, and the year sevens are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay ruder than we ever were (that's not just me saying that - it's parents, teachers, other pupils, etc.), and they're just little shits, yet I doubt that in 6 years, parents in the same area are going to have become a hell of a lot worse at doing their jobs? I think that although a bad background doesn't help, people still have a choice. We could talk for days on here, making up stereotypical case-study-style things on people's lives, but at the end of the day, it's all meaningless. We all choose what we want to do. People who have shitty backgrounds can go on to do really well, it's all whether you choose to or not. The choice can be loaded to one side more than the other, but it really, really pisses me off when my friend's just been kicked in and the school say "Oh, but look, he's from a single-parent family" - so f**king what? My Mum and Dad divorced in 1996. I don't go round punching people in the face. We're not super well off or anything. My Mum's a teacher, and also works part time in a call centre. We get by. I wouldn't say we were middle class, but I wouldn't say we were council-estate-chav-stylee class or whatever. It's just f**king annoying when people try to defend the behaviour of the pieces of crap who go around causing trouble and explain it all away with "But look at his background". Some kid here's been sent to prison for the second time recently for trying to cut someone open with a meat cleaver in a busy pub. Every time he's about to go to court, he has a social worker speak to him, and he cries and blames it on his parents. Having spoken to his friends, this is all a front. His parents did split up and so on, but he knows how to play the system. He's not even all that intelligent, it's just that people all have a survival instinct so if they find a loophole to get out of trouble for something they'll exploit it. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkey Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Wow just thought of something, reading Mark's post it just came to me. My bro is a dirty f**king chav. Same parents same everything. So there you go his choice. And Mark I've noticed that to, the lower years in our school are all little c**ts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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