"real" Trials

[Simon]

It somewhat seem's there is a fake myth and thought pattern building among riders and mis-informed newbies.

This thought pattern being what the term "Real" trials means. I first saw this used for UCI riders. Now, i can easily argue this can be correct, being that UCI is classed above BIU for skill level, and media attention for that matter. However, BIU is just as much trials as UCI is. UCI may have harder rules to govern the way its ridden, but its still trials.

Now, i saw the term "Real" trials used again earlier, but this time in the context of natural and street trials. I dont know about you, but trials is as much street as it is natural. Im not disputing the fact that natural may of been the birth area for trials, coming from mototrials and all, but saying that street isnt "Real" trials is just silly.

Decent street riders can go just as technical on a street line, as decent natural riders can on natural. Im starting to really like natural, but i also love street still, however, i wouldnt say one type is real trials.

So yeah, how would you describe real trials, and why?

Why is there such a myth forming of the term "real" trials?

Discuss etc.

PS: Ive just relised how crap i am at getting across a point or discussion im trying to make, but i hope you all understand :">

[fairy elephants]

"real" trials, is getting through a section, in the way that you want. you can make it as difficult as you want, it can be whatever terrain that you want, and you can use whatever rules you want. trials to me, is about pushing your limits on a bike, in the way that you want... although there are obviously limits in other cycleing diciplines which are not trials. so i have now completly contradicted myself :"> (Y)"

[Phatmike]

Completely agree Si, loads of people seem to believe that street isn't trials, and are so caught up in the hype of the UCI aspect.

For example, i was asked earlier on msn; what is bmx? I replied riding on a bmx bike. Doing street on a trials bike is trials, not bmx.

Take a convo with Austin earlier, who appears to be doing brilliantly well in the UCI scene;

Aust: "ok then who can sidehop higher coustellier or berridge?"

Mike: "I don't really think Matt, (as well as alot of other riders) really cares about how high he can sidehop."

A: "who can tap high coust or berridge"

M: "Aust, don't you get it"

A: "who can front hook higher coust or berridge" "who can japsplap bigger coust or berridge ". "They are better at every move"

A: "is berridge better than cousts at bmx? because the answer is yes"

I then preceeded to (try to) explain that street is a trials dicipline just as much as technical comp riding is. But, he didn't seem to accept it.

I'm 100% sure that most "comp" riders (again, i don't like to separate riders, it's all trials) don't see it this way, and can appreciate other aspects of riding, in just the same way that there are a small number of "street" riders who don't appreciate the more competition based aspect of trials.

As it's been said so many times, trials is small enough as it is. EVeryone should learn to appreachiate everyone's style of riding, and get along. "and my brothers started riding now hes already better than you, shows how wank you are"

As for:

Aust: "Exactly so get a bmx berridge because i honestly think hes wank ". :) :D

Fair enough, each person's entitled to their own opinions, but let's try to keep the trials community to a whole. :D

Mike.

Edit:

trials to me, is about pushing your limits on a bike, in the way that you want.

←

Exactly. (Y) If you want to push yourself without using your bash/pedals in a competition environment, fair enough, if you want to sidehop as high as you can, fair enough, and if you want to have as much fun, well, that's what it should be about. :)

I'm sure some things i've said i might have not worded brilliantly, but i hope you can all get the gist of what i'm saying, it's all meant to be in a positive manner. :D

Edited December 3, 2004 by fatmike

[JonMack]

Take a convo with Austin earlier, who appears to be doing brilliantly well in the UCI scene;

Aust: "ok then who can sidehop higher coustellier or berridge?"

Mike: "I don't really think Matt, (as well as alot of other riders) really cares about how high he can sidehop."

A: "who can tap high coust or berridge"

M: "Aust, don't you get it"

A: "who can front hook higher coust or berridge" "who can japsplap bigger coust or berridge ". "They are better at every move"

A: "is berridge better than cousts at bmx? because the answer is yes"

I then preceeded to (try to) explain that street is a trials dicipline just as much as technical comp riding is. But, he didn't seem to accept it.

As for:

Aust: "Exactly so get a bmx berridge because i honestly think hes wank ". :) (Y)

Fair enough, each person's entitled to their own opinions, but let's try to keep the trials community to a whole. :)

←

Just to pick out that point, to quote myself, something I hate is "ingorant funkers" :D . Why just dismis one area of the sport because you cant ride it very well, thats like the Coustelliers blanking out XC, DH, FreeRide, etc. because they arnt pro at it.

Whatever, something I hate, is hate, why cant everyone just get along!

[JT!]

At last a topic people can get their teeth into.

Theres always different variations of biking. When I first bought a BMX i went out and bought a big heavy dirt jump bike, as i thoughT a bmx was just a bmx! But then you have all the differnt variations! Race, street, vert, dirt jump. but then, in dirt jumping, you can use 26" mountain bikes, with great wacking suspention. These can be used for race, freeriding (which lets face it is EVERYTHING) Cyclocross. But in cyclocross (i think thats it) road bikes can be used, in road biking you can get (time) trials bikes, triathlon specific bikes, and the standard road bike, with different gearing for differnt types.

I could go on for days but the point i'm trying to get across is all bikesports are conected, right at the hip! They all have there variations, and those variations and different bike sports. When I got my trials bike i hadn't a clue there was:

Street (BUI style)

natural (BUI style)

Street (UCI style)

natural (UCI style)

freeride trials

I say 'style', because thats what it is! just a style, one person somewhere decided it was fun to ride without using the rock ring etc. Sure, maby a UCI chap can sidehop up something X hight, but a BUI chap can sidehop X hight plus the distence from his wheels to the top of his crank arm.

I prefer BUI as i like to, say get up a wall, if i cant get up it UCI style, i wouldnt just say i quit, i would use other parts of my bike, hence BUI.

You use the turm 'real' alot, its impossible to define that word in these turms, could you define a 'real' cd player. Would that be a realy big expensive pure noise machine, if you only listend to music on your way to work, i dont think so.

These differnt styles just show how creative riders can be, and it shows that we dont just stick to rules set by friends and others. WE DO WHAT WE LIKE! AND IT MAKES US HAPPY!

:) :D :D :D

:) (Y) :D

Edited December 3, 2004 by JT!

[Brian Bleech]

i think comparing trials to bmx is a good place to start, in bmx you have different disciplines such as racinmg, street, flatland, etc.

i would compare uci/bui comp riding to bmx racing, where ultimately winning matters

and maybe everyone else would be street, dirt and flatland riders where you can compete but its really about pushing yourself more than anything!!

i dunno really where i am going with this so i will end it with this RIDE WHAT YOU WILL, BUT RESPECT OTHERS!!

i just like watching people who are in top control of there bike, from leech to cousts (Y)

tired...bed...zzzz

mike

[trialskid]

aust makes me laugh (Y)"

i really couldnt give a flying poo what sort of riding people think is better or what ever. when i go for a ride i have a laugh and meet new people, and i think this is more important than someone is doing 60" hooks or what ever and being a big headed twat. its all peoples opinions again and we all know what users of tf think about your own opinion :) ahhh the joys of it all.

*awaits bitching* :)

[tank_rider]

pure trials is what i'd use to describe uci comp style riding.

real trials is what we all ride, whether it be natural street, comp style or bmx type moves on a trials bike, we all ride essentially similar bike and have the same fundamental skill set of backhops and sidehops etc, so does it really matter?

Wouldnt trials just be boring if everyone was striving to do the same moves?

Yes we all may be able to get up something bigger, if that was all we tried, but is that the real point of trials?

I think trials is all about having fun on your bike, i am pretty sure thats how it started out, people just mucking about seeing what they could rideover round through between etc, and in what different ways. Some of todays trials riders focus on how far and high they can take this philosophy, whilst others see how many different ways they can think of to do things. We are afterall though all riding trials.

[Robbbbb]

Some of todays trials riders focus on how far and high they can take this philosophy, whilst others see how many different ways they can think of to do things. We are afterall though all riding trials.

So true, riders like Neil and Craig will fit in to the "how far and how high" category which is totally fair enough because they enjoy it and i must admit, the videos of them really are amazing. Berridge obviously prefers the "how many different ways" part, he obviously feels better inside about himself doing this and isnt entirely bothered about how high he can side hop. It's all trials and everybody enjoys what they do which is what makes trials such a brilliant sport....I think anyway (Y)

Rob

[Steve-A]

I'd say to define real trials, you first need to define trials.

The best description I have heard for trials is

Using a push bike to cover difficut challenging terrain, putting your feet down as little as possible

Therefore real trials would be people doing this. "fake trials" would be not using a push bike, or putting your feet down when you feel like it etc.

And whether your covering tricky uneven rock, or big concrete blocks, you would still be under the definition of trials, and if your putting spins in and the odd crankflip your still covering challenging terrain, but just attacking it in a different manner.

I dont care, go out, have fun, ride your bike. Thats all that matters

Edit: and learn to spell :">

Edited December 3, 2004 by Steve-A

[ScotchDave]

Trials is riding without putting your foot down or touching the floor, if you do it in a compy way (custards) or a streety way (berridge) you are still doing the same thing, you just express yourselves in a different way and all have the same aim, to have alot of fun. (Y)"

[BONGO]

all that shite with "aust" is pissin me off. the kid is a tosser. we got on at tech, although i did notice big headedness and massive competativeness, but i ain't really arsed about that, everyone is different, but don't rip into berridge like that, when he is one of the soundest people i know and an amazing rider to watch. You obviously don't know him.

I wouldn't have considered aust as a mate, but someone i knew when i saw and could have a decent enough laugh/chat with at events, but f**k it, its no loss to me if he/you hate me for sayin you are a stuck up big headed tosser.

john

[Wayne-king]

"real" trials, is getting through a section, in the way that you want. you can make it as difficult as you want, it can be whatever terrain that you want, and you can use whatever rules you want. trials to me, is about pushing your limits on a bike, in the way that you want... although there are obviously limits in other cycleing diciplines which are not trials. so i have now completly contradicted myself :">  (Y)"

←

for once, i very nearly agree with you! :)

[Savage]

Real trials?

What would the opposite be then, UN – real trials. As far as I am concerned if you are doing it on a trials bike and enjoying it – it’s REAL.

I am not into the how high can you side hop, how far can you gap thing, to be honest I don’t know or care what height or distance I can get, but if its in a section then it has to done so I get on with it. I just do my best and I enjoy it when it goes right, “its real”, it’s about doing your best.

I have probably ridden more comps than most people in the U.K. in the last two years, mostly BIU but some UCI. I can’t understand why some are trying to force people to choose one or the other – its all trials; the rules when applied in sections are only slightly different. At world level BIU there is little time for a pedal rest or breather so you end up riding “clean” anyway. Don’t be fooled by the “there’s only one way forward” attitude. Both BIU and UCI are there to be enjoyed and if you want you can do both.

I don’t ride much street for one reason, I don’t live near any. I have respect for street riders; I enjoy watching street videos – its real trials on urban terrain.

I agree with the point made by fairy elephants, well said mate.

Ben.

[boon racoon]

why the fuk do i always get dragged in to this. i couldn't give a fat f**k in the wind who thinks i'm good or shit...even if they're "better," "worse" or don't ride at all because on the times (slowly getting less) that i ride my bike i have a whole load of fun. people need to get it out of their heads that different means worse...and certainly need to stay away from basically tellin' me to get the f**k out of the hobby i've been doin for 5 years and ride a different bike. why the f**k should i? if they think i'm "bad" for trials or am drastically gonna damage its image or give people the wrong idea about it, they need to take their head out of their ass...let's face it. i'm just a kid making videos.

si you always knew it was gonna end in a bitch haha (Y)

[Trials Punk]

Two points which should make everything clear in the mind of a normal trials rider.

1.) There is no such thing as real trials, theres just trials.

2.) Trials is a sport where you use your bike to get over an object.

I mean what is more simple than that?

[JoShO]

Basicallyk, anyone who thinkis "real trials" is any one thing is stupid. Trials is trials, however you wanna take it. Im jealous of anyone who CAN go out on a group ride every so often and ride different stuff, because i live in a place with no rocks, shit street and no riders for around 70KM's. I'd call pure trials comps, because thats what trials was built on, street stuff came in later and lots of people ride either, and thats fine because if they're having fun its all good!

Josh

[mink]

Some people are far too worried about what everyone else is doing.

There's no need to catagorise types of riding, it's all trials, just do whatever you enjoy.

[Trials Punk]

I agree mink.

People were saying that trials is based on moto trials, thats true. Question is how did moto trials start? Maybe one person, or a few of them who started messing about on a motorbike trying to get up things. I'm sure that was no compition as they wouldn't have even thought about that when they first tried stuff like this out.

So if anybody wants to be bitchy about the origins of trials. Just remember it started with one person or a few, just having fun riding their bikes.

Edited December 3, 2004 by Trials Punk

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

real trials = whatever YOU want it to be , and as long as it is fun

who cares?

[Simon]

si you always knew it was gonna end in a bitch haha (Y)

←

Haha true, lasted longer then i thought though, like 13 posts :)"

Anywhom, obviously you will get some people who like to define real trials as the trials they are doing, as they dont have the mind power to see what else is out there. Its like a BMX rider in a skate park, just riding the vert ramp, and abusing all the park riders around him for not riding real bmx, as thats what he defines as real.

I personally don't care what i ride. My freinds who have been riding 1/3 of the time i have are now way ahead of me in skill term's, but i couldnt care less, i enjoy what i do, so i do it, weather it be real or not :)

I would also agree there seem's to be a gap forming, where there isnt need for one.

[BONGO]

Anywhom, obviously you will get some people who like to define real trials as the trials they are doing, as they dont have the mind power to see what else is out there. Its like a BMX rider in a skate park, just riding the vert ramp, and abusing all the park riders around him for not riding real bmx, as thats what he defines as real.

←

although most bmxers would actually class vert as its own sport, as to be any good at it, you can't afford to ride anything else. The bikes are set up different usually, plus it is so hard and dangerous, any time spent elsewhere will inevitably end in disaster when you fall 20 feet to flat.

Also, who rides vert. like 7 or 8 people at the top, thats it. It is so hard that nobody can really do it. The pro's at the top in the early 90's are the same pro's at the top now.

I get your point, and you are right, but i wouldn't use vert as an example :)

I rekon you ride what you like, on what you like, f**k everyone else, and have a laugh. If i ain't lovin somethin, i won't do it.

john

[colly]

real trials to me, is what trials used to be like 2 years ago, the lads on the megamos, zebdis, there was none of this long uci crap, if people wanted to use there bash they would, they competed at club level, enjoyed it, then went out for a street ride down the town, enjoyed that. it's not just about how high you can jump, or drop, it's how you can deal with an obstacle. biketrials spaned from motor trials, and on that there is no set uci rules. if you use your sump it's ok aslong as you are keeping forward motion. any way what im trying to say, is that there is too many different aspects of trials now, 2 years ago a rider would have a bike, long or short. flats or riser's and he would ride both natural and street and enjoy them both, he wasnt worried about scratching his bash. or if his bike was too short. he just rode it. :) fair enough i do like to watch uci trials, i have to admitt they are really good 'modern' riders, but 'akrigg or burns' style how i think real trials is. :)

[thefletch]

in my mind there's no such thing as ''real'' trials. theres trials wether it be street or natural AND THEN theres trials/something else.

For example:::::::: if you've got a trials bike but all you do is bunny hop gaps and bunny hop up stuff, is that trials? because you can bunny hop on and bike.

What im saying is it doesnt matter what bike you have but as long as you are riding trials it is real trials. And as for rider like matt berridg ei wouldnt class that as trials, except when he does trials moves (rarely). To me his style and others alike is a new disapline of riding somewhere between mountain biking/bmxing

[tank_rider]

in my mind there's no such thing as ''real'' trials. theres trials wether it be street or natural AND THEN theres trials/something else.

For example:::::::: if you've got a trials bike but all you do is bunny hop gaps and bunny hop up stuff, is that trials? because you can bunny hop on and bike.

What im saying is it doesnt matter what bike you have but as long as you are riding trials it is real trials. And as for rider like matt berridg ei wouldnt class that as trials, except when he does trials moves (rarely). To me his style and others alike is a new disapline of riding somewhere between mountain biking/bmxing

←

I'd say you need to go and watch do the goon again then, yes matt does do quite a lot of what could be said are bmx inspired moves, however, they all have a trials element in them, yes bunnyhop gaps may not seem like a "trials" move to you, but they are still landed on the backwheel and are often kept there. Bunnyhopping up stuff is probably the most effective way of getting up massive stuff, as shown by tunni!!!! Also you will see that lots of Matt's moves are made up of 180 endos and rear wheel spins which are essential trials moves, just put together in different ways to you use them.

Can you say to me you have never done a bunnyhop up on your bike? no, well in that case, i wouldnt argue against any style, there are no two distinct ways riding will go, i do a happy medium of bmxy stuff and "pure" trials.

I'd have a look at exactly the move you use when you ride and then have another look at what you class as BMXy videos before drawing too many conclusions, you will probably be shocked about how many moves you share, yes you may not manual, and Matt doesnt sidehop over houses, but you will find there arent that many differences if you look beyond the percieved style. It is all trials afterall.