thousandwords Posted September 7, 2022 Report Share Posted September 7, 2022 Hi all, Back with another question ha ha, this time about headsets. I just cannot figure out what headset is needed for this headtube. Internal diameter almost 44 mm. But milled at 45 degrees as for an integrated headset, with no internal cups necessary. Here are 2 pictures, apologies for the upside down caliper reading. Thank you in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted September 7, 2022 Report Share Posted September 7, 2022 (edited) Seems like it might be a semi integrated 1-1/8 headset. if its got 45 deg chamfer both top and bottom then this may work for you... EDIT - New link: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ritchey-comp-press-fit-semi-integrated-headset/rp-prod39377 EDIT 2: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/brand-x-semi-integrated-44iiss-sealed-headset/rp-prod208220?gs=1&sku=sku847712&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=base&gclid=Cj0KCQjwguGYBhDRARIsAHgRm4_3zM24PqCSMscVS4KQlgKJtqqPJLPMwJGGRNGwj4iwvya9fAXdBb4aAn3SEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Edited September 7, 2022 by ben_travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted September 7, 2022 Report Share Posted September 7, 2022 40 minutes ago, ben_travis said: Seems like a standard integrated 1-1/8 headset. if its got 45 deg chamfer both top and bottom then this would should work for you... https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ritchey-comp-drop-in-integrated-headset/rp-prod39378 I disagree. It's common for the cups on internal headsets to also have a chamfer, I'm 99% sure that frame just takes a standard 1 1/8th internal headset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted September 7, 2022 Report Share Posted September 7, 2022 51 minutes ago, Ali C said: I disagree. It's common for the cups on internal headsets to also have a chamfer, I'm 99% sure that frame just takes a standard 1 1/8th internal headset I stand corrected. I think you're probably right, Ali. I've updated the link above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted September 7, 2022 Report Share Posted September 7, 2022 So are internal and semi-integrated the same thing?... Ali's pic and Ben's links look identical in terms of what's going on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted September 7, 2022 Report Share Posted September 7, 2022 Yeah, from what I can see they are... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted September 7, 2022 Report Share Posted September 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, monkeyseemonkeydo said: So are internal and semi-integrated the same thing?... Yup... 44mm insertion diameter, cups hidden inside frame, bearings into cups. The photo above shows the frame has been dented (front of head tube), hence the dimension being a bit small. Should be around 33.9mm. In reality, just press the cup in and all will be ok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thousandwords Posted September 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 Thanks for all the info! Just bought the Ritchie on the link provided by ben_travis (thank you for the suggestion!). I still have lingering questions regarding fit, although you guys convinced me 100% it's a internal/semi-integrated design, mostly related to the height of the cup flange that goes into the headtube (just making sure it's not too tall, contacting the chamfered portion of the headtube before cup goes all the way in. Before ordering a particular headset measured the straight part of the headtube- about 9mm top, 6.5 mm bottom (the only difference between top and bottom, otherwise identical) and looked at a few different internal headsets. I even called Cane Creek, one of the manufacturers that have an ZS44/28.6/ZS44/30 (which is really the type of internal headset that would fit this headtube) and they confirmed my worries lol. The straight flange of their cups measure about 8.5 mm top and bottom, so the bottom one would be too tall for the Onza headset. I also sent an email to Onza (while not making frames any longer, they are still in tire business) in hope they have an archive with specs for the frame. But the Ritchie is a great start because it is inexpensive, so if bottom cup does not fit, it won't be such a loss. Besides, the top cup (inf act the whole top assembly, bearing, etc) will fit so I can use that. And even a non fitting bottom cup will give me a baseline for what a correctly fitting cup should measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 4 hours ago, thousandwords said: The straight flange of their cups measure about 8.5 mm top and bottom, so the bottom one would be too tall for the Onza headset. Yep, known "problem" with this frame. Loads of these bikes out there with the headset cups not sitting flush, without issue, so don't worry. Source of knowledge: I built about 300 of these bikes back in 2003-2004 when I was working for Onza... they had a special lower cup made, which of course nearlt 20 years on they won't have available any more. A heads up, I would measure the BB thread diameter before you go any further with the build... some of these frames have oversized BB threads (by accident), for which the solution was to get some oversized BBs made to fit, which again you will struggle to find any more. Plus these special BBs only came in 119mm square taper, not much use nowadays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 The BB thing did come to mind! I remember discovering that treat as I partially stripped the threads on mine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thousandwords Posted September 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 Happy to hear bottom cup not sitting flush is not that much of an issue! It would still be nice to find a cup that fits, but won't be worried any longer if I don't find that. I lucked out on the BB thread issue- ISIS BB already in (cranks, bash ring and freewheel as well) and went in smoothly first try! Just got an update saying that fork just cleared customs, headset is on the way too, so soon the headset press will come out of the tool box! Fingers crossed cups will fit in nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thousandwords Posted September 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 Ritchey headset came. When I bought it I did not realize it is of a caged/retainer design (so the Ritchey version of the FSA No.10) but I guess it's the compromise you need to make if you want that lower cup all the way in, as the retained bearing being small profile allows for a short cup. Had to check for fit immediately so in it went! Fits perfectly! Here's the lower cup, the iffy one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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