Competition for beginners

[Maintenance Justice]

Somewhat hijacking @jamesb's topic on the rider skill / fitness requirements for UCI competition, it got me thinking from a novice point of view what would be good to focus on for grassroots competition.

I've never done a comp, ever, so I have zero experience of what to expect. From what I understand of comps, I'd probably have a crack at a blue but I don't know exactly what sort of moves I should be achieving to make this worthwhile? For example, should I train for a certain gap to back wheel length? Will I be expected to side hop a certain height? Basically what skills / level of riding should I be focussing on for me to be able to ride 90% of a blue, or any other novice route and actually enjoy it, if not necessarily place high.

It's a bit open-ended, I'm sure, but with collective experience I'm hoping to get an idea of how I should structure my limited ride time as a goal to work toward.

[Mark W]

From my experience with comps, it's not so much the size of moves you can do but just being able to handle really awkward, fiddly stuff. It's been ages since I've done a comp, but when I did some the 'big' moves in each section on blue were fine for me, but it was the awkward janky wheel swappy stuff that always cost me dabs. Some of that has been diluted by the switch to trials park venues rather than quarries and natural setups where you might find more awkward stuff, but realistically trying to find some natural spots that'll force you to link multiple moves together will probably be more beneficial for your comp riding rather than just trying to do bigger one-off moves. That'll also hopefully give you some resilience to arm pump! That was a big factor for me in sections. I was always pretty tense in them, so I'd be holding onto the bars harder and pulling the brakes harder than I'd need to, then 1:30 in I'd barely be able to hold on...

Learning to do stuff off off camber/sketchy run ups is good too, and is something that a place like Shipley Glen is really good for. Shipley has some fairly street-ish kind of setups there, but what makes them hard is that the run in/run out will be on undulating rock, long grass or a combination of the two. As before, in the blue routes I did on street I could comfortably do the size of moves required, but even though they were relatively small for me the run ups (and my inability to work them out/deal with them) really limited me.

EDIT: Just to add, learning to do wheel swaps on to awkward shaped stuff and off awkward shaped stuff will be a big help if you're riding blue! Plenty of setups like that to play on at Shipley too, so I'd suggest having a trip over there for a ride some time if you haven't gone already.

[AdamR28]

39 minutes ago, Mark W said:

The 'big' moves in each section on blue were fine for me, but it was the awkward janky wheel swappy stuff that always cost me dabs.

 

 

This x100  the little nadgery stuff is the killer until you've ridden a fair bit of natural!

[Maintenance Justice]

2 hours ago, Mark W said:

EDIT: Just to add, learning to do wheel swaps on to awkward shaped stuff and off awkward shaped stuff will be a big help if you're riding blue! Plenty of setups like that to play on at Shipley too, so I'd suggest having a trip over there for a ride some time if you haven't gone already.

So this gives me some confidence at least, wheel swaps are one of my stronger moves and I can do them to a decent size and on pretty horrible stuff and hold it. It's run-ups that will probably get me and off camber / uneven stuff when setting up. In my head it was a concern that if I found a 20" wheel height up to back a real challenge then most blues would be off limits for example or if I would need to do bike length gaps at more than bar height.

I suppose a lot will depend on the venue and how the organisers set the course.

[marg26]

Come to say the same, it's the tricky nadgery setups that's the killer. After a couple of years of trying to learn trials I thought I was better than white level (based purely on the size of some of the obstacles) when I had a go at the comp at the Bike Trials Academy Weekender.  Downgraded myself to white within moments. Quite humbling for a forty something to be riding alongside 5 and 6 year olds! There were still sections that easily beat me too. To be fair however, I've been a very slow learner at trials and had very little bike control at that time and you've definitely got a lot further than I had at that point.

Edited June 22, 2022 by marg26

[Maintenance Justice]

14 hours ago, marg26 said:

 I had a go at the comp at the Bike Trials Academy Weekender.  Downgraded myself to white within moments.

Well this is the thing @marg26 - you get two shots at a section (one per lap for two laps) so I imagine is a real leveller compared to casual riding where you can do reasonably big or tech stuff after about 50 tries. My aim is to maybe focus on the things that will catch me out in a comp scenario like off camber surfaces and horrible run-ups, as from my experience it's that stuff that makes even 'easy' moves tricky. But I also want to get a feel for what to expect in terms of more dynamic moves, for example I'm going to set off into a typical blue and they come across a 30-inch side hop and that's comp over for me?!

I'll be down at the UK's Radfest next month and I'll see if I can take part in the Sunday comp which will give me my first taste of what it's like and hopefully it'll be enlightening!

Edited June 23, 2022 by Maintenance Justice

[Mark W]

I'd say you were somewhat unlikely to find a big sidehop in a section for blue, I don't remember there being many that often. That's typically more along the lines of red from memory. As before, I'd really recommend taking a trip either up to the Moon Rocks or across to Shipley. There's a pretty decent range of sizes of move to go at there, but they're all that bit awkward so they'll give you an indication of where you're at. They're not particularly representative of what comps are these days just because they aren't trials-park-y, but they're both hard to ride so they'll level you up faster than just riding the same combo of walls or pallets.

[DYAKOV]

I suppose nothing new to add to what’s been said already but I’ll share my experience as I’ve just done the third comp in my life (2-3 months ago) and that was the first one I actually didn’t give up on for a change and came third in green. Bear in mind I’ve been riding trials since 2008, so not really a newbie in terms of bike control but comps are completely different to riding street, so I’d say I still count as a newbie.

The first comp I entered was around 2009-2010 and that was in Bulgaria. There were different style sections, similar to the uci comps, so one was rocks, another one was logs, another one was tyres and oil barrels, another one was pallets, cable drums, beams etc. We weren’t more than 10 riders all in and we didn’t have categories at the time. I was too embarrassed to take it seriously because I knew my skills weren’t great, so I didn’t want to pretend as if I was really competing for the podium. From that point of view, I’d go first on most routes rather than waiting for more experienced riders to go before me and learn from their mistakes - don’t do that. Secondly, I didn’t explore the routes before the comp and I didn’t have a plan in my head when starting a route - don’t do that. Finally, I was super unrealistic about my skills and I guess I wanted to put on a wee bit of a show, so I’d attempt moves that I couldn’t even do in a normal setting let alone a comp - don’t do that. I’d end up running out of time or out of dabs on each of the courses which resulted in me being disqualified. After the comp I felt crap (as you’d expect from a young teenager who thinks that the world revolves around them) and I didn’t enter any comps for a very long time ahead.

The second comp I entered was in Scotland, must have been 2017-2018. It was at Bob McGreggor’s trials academy near Glasgow. I got there late, so I had to catch up on time. I rushed through the first 3-4 laps, got jelly arms, made lots of mistakes… in a nutshell it was a similar scenario to the first comp and I thought there was no point in embarrassing myself further, so I voluntarily dropped out.

The third one was a few months ago, same place as the previous one - Bob McGreggor’s trials academy. This time I wanted to make the most of it and I was determined to see it from start to end. I took my time, did my best and came third in green.

Now after I’ve told you my life story, I’ll get to actually answering your question (based on my learnings).

1-I’ve found that there’s a great difference between the types of the courses. Man made ones e.g. concrete pipes, curbs, tree logs, cable drums etc are generally easier than pure natural ones e.g. rocks, rubble, mud, shit. Depending on what type of terrain you’d be riding I’d say - if you feel like you’re good enough for a blue on a man made course, go for green on the natural course. A step down means that you’d be able to finish all laps and you’ll find the whole event more enjoyable. The main reason for you to be there is to enjoy yourself and if you manage a good score, that’ll give you a boost to join another comp and do even better next time. Once you feel like a certain route isn’t a challenge any more, move up. Let others go the same journey rather than being the forever winner in green. The main thing is, start lower in the colours and go up, you’d be surprised how challenging a green route can be to someone who can ride street to an alright level.

2-There’s nothing embarrassing in competing against kids. If you think about it that way, you have less spare time to practice than a kid does and if you fell, you’d get a much worse injury/recovery time than a kid would. After all, there are age groups as well, so we’re not speaking about a 35 year old competing against a 5 year old. From that point of view, don’t compare yourself to others, choose a colour which suits you and don’t worry about who else rides that colour.

3-Arrive on time, make sure your bike is up and running. Go and explore the routes, make a rough plan on your head about how you might tackle some obstacles. Warm up and a very important thing - don’t rush to go from one lap straight to the other. Give yourself some breathing time, watch what others do and steal some moves if needed.

3-In my experience so far (which is mainly green route on rocks and mud) - rear wheel moves are close to non existent. It’s all about run ups, roll overs, lunges, wheel swaps etc. You’d get the odd drop here and there, so being able to do a pedal kick would be handy but I wouldn’t worry about the size of your jumps. If anything, standing on a back wheel pumps your forearms and ideally you want to save your energy. It’s probably different when it comes to riding bigger rocks or man made obstacles, I’m yet to ride that kind of a course.

THE END

[Maintenance Justice]

On 9/24/2022 at 10:20 AM, DYAKOV said:

I’d go first on most routes rather than waiting for more experienced riders to go before me and learn from their mistakes - don’t do that. Secondly, I didn’t explore the routes before the comp and I didn’t have a plan in my head when starting a route - don’t do that. Finally, I was super unrealistic about my skills and I guess I wanted to put on a wee bit of a show, so I’d attempt moves that I couldn’t even do in a normal setting let alone a comp - don’t do that. I

1-I’ve found that there’s a great difference between the types of the courses. Man made ones e.g. concrete pipes, curbs, tree logs, cable drums etc are generally easier than pure natural ones e.g. rocks, rubble, mud, shit. Depending on what type of terrain you’d be riding I’d say - if you feel like you’re good enough for a blue on a man made course, go for green on the natural course. A step down means that you’d be able to finish all laps and you’ll find the whole event more enjoyable. The main reason for you to be there is to enjoy yourself and if you manage a good score, that’ll give you a boost to join another comp and do even better next time. Once you feel like a certain route isn’t a challenge any more, move up. Let others go the same journey rather than being the forever winner in green. The main thing is, start lower in the colours and go up, you’d be surprised how challenging a green route can be to someone who can ride street to an alright level.

2-There’s nothing embarrassing in competing against kids. If you think about it that way, you have less spare time to practice than a kid does and if you fell, you’d get a much worse injury/recovery time than a kid would. After all, there are age groups as well, so we’re not speaking about a 35 year old competing against a 5 year old. From that point of view, don’t compare yourself to others, choose a colour which suits you and don’t worry about who else rides that colour.

3-Arrive on time, make sure your bike is up and running. Go and explore the routes, make a rough plan on your head about how you might tackle some obstacles. Warm up and a very important thing - don’t rush to go from one lap straight to the other. Give yourself some breathing time, watch what others do and steal some moves if needed.

3-In my experience so far (which is mainly green route on rocks and mud) - rear wheel moves are close to non existent. It’s all about run ups, roll overs, lunges, wheel swaps etc. You’d get the odd drop here and there, so being able to do a pedal kick would be handy but I wouldn’t worry about the size of your jumps. If anything, standing on a back wheel pumps your forearms and ideally you want to save your energy. It’s probably different when it comes to riding bigger rocks or man made obstacles, I’m yet to ride that kind of a course.

THE END

Some solid advice there @DYAKOV I’ve  be been told similar about going a ‘colour’ down to what you think you can ride. I take your point about back wheel stuff being an energy thief. One of the things I need to practice is being more efficient at getting through sections.

I plan to do the nationals the 9th entering ‘Green’ - I think just getting stuck in a making lots of mistakes will be the best learning experience!

Edited September 25, 2022 by Maintenance Justice

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