Jere_h Posted June 8, 2022 Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 Most likely switching to a Xox carbon frame from my lovely Echo. As far as I know the frame is going to have ISIS BB preinstalled, so technically I could use my old Echo TR cranks + splined freewheel (if not mistaken). I've been running Echo stuff for 4 years now and can't complain much. However, seems like I need to rebuild or replace the freewheel generally once in a summer or two and not sure if this is how it should be? At the same time I'm constantly progressing and putting more and more power to the moves so that might explain it too, but again not sure. The actual question would be, are there known to be any better/more reliable freewheels than Echo TR/SL out there currently? Or something particular brand/model to avoid? I'd choose my ISIS cranks after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted June 9, 2022 Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 I've had 2 Echo SL Ti freewheels in about 8-9 years, always been reliable as long as they're bed in before giving a trials beating and kept lightly lubricated. On a side note, where do you get these XoX frames from?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jere_h Posted June 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 I had one TR (or SL) that was completely dry and started skipping pretty soon, found the springs and pawls getting stuck and breaking. But the latest one seems to be pretty well lubricated out of the box and has been flawless so far. Though I remember reading somewhere that you shouldn't lubricate these for specific reasons, sounds weird really. Trialbikes in Spain is the official Xox dealer. But there aren't any info on their site yet so you have to email. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 9, 2022 Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 Lubing them is tricky - basically, if it's too thick then it'll potentially reduce the effectiveness of the springs, plus it tends to attract dust, dirt and grit. When I worked at TartyBikes we got a few "faulty" Echo freewheels returned to us that were chock full of sand, mud and everything else where riders had ridden natural and not really taken great care of their bikes. They only really need a very light lube to keep them going and minimise corrosion. Echo freestyled their BB 'standard' a bit, so you may need to double check the measurements on the Xox match the Echo BB. If the Xox BB is a little wider/thicker for whatever reason, it would mean your drive-side crank will sit further out on the splines. With ISIS BBs having a very slight taper to them it might not really be ideal if it's sitting a reasonable amount further outboard. Aside from that, the sealed bearing 135-click freewheels seem to generally be pretty decent these days so could be worth a look. They're all basically the same thing so I don't think you'll really find performance difference from brand to brand. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardweb Posted June 9, 2022 Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 8 hours ago, Mark W said: Lubing them is tricky - basically, if it's too thick then it'll potentially reduce the effectiveness of the springs, plus it tends to attract dust, dirt and grit. When I worked at TartyBikes we got a few "faulty" Echo freewheels returned to us that were chock full of sand, mud and everything else where riders had ridden natural and not really taken great care of their bikes. They only really need a very light lube to keep them going and minimise corrosion. Echo freestyled their BB 'standard' a bit, so you may need to double check the measurements on the Xox match the Echo BB. If the Xox BB is a little wider/thicker for whatever reason, it would mean your drive-side crank will sit further out on the splines. With ISIS BBs having a very slight taper to them it might not really be ideal if it's sitting a reasonable amount further outboard. Aside from that, the sealed bearing 135-click freewheels seem to generally be pretty decent these days so could be worth a look. They're all basically the same thing so I don't think you'll really find performance difference from brand to brand. Exactly. All the 135 engagement points freewheels are the same now. Just get a splined one and the Trialtech ISIS cranks that come with a splined interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The dab Posted June 9, 2022 Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 Always liked either the trial tech splined crank and ffw or the threaded jitsie 108 the best currently have a clean 135 sealed and the drag is worse because of the bearing seals but obviously no dirt ingress like a open ball one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Bourde Posted June 9, 2022 Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 I have also a Clean 135 (the splined version) and it skipped after a few rides. I think I bet it in correctly. It did not fit the splined interface well neither, I had to file it a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 11 hours ago, La Bourde said: I have also a Clean 135 (the splined version) and it skipped after a few rides. I think I bet it in correctly. It did not fit the splined interface well neither, I had to file it a little. Nice to see the fit and quality of trials parts is improving lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 15 hours ago, Canardweb said: Exactly. All the 135 engagement points freewheels are the same now. Just get a splined one and the Trialtech ISIS cranks that come with a splined interface. The Trialtech splines are the same HG spline as the 135-click freewheels, but they're not compatible as the Trialtech cranks have a shorter spline interface and use a different style of lockring compared to the interface the 135-click freewheels use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jere_h Posted June 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 Wow, manufacturers always making things so "easy"! If all the 135s are potentially from the same mass producer, certainly would expect some occasional qc issues regardless of the brand. Switching to "the original ISIS" cranks could be the way to go. As I can already see from google that Echo BB has longer splines which probably means that the cranks are wider too and could end up sitting too far away on a traditional ISIS axle. Also the fact that my Echo cranks have seen over 4 years of abuse now, so would be a good idea to replace anyway. Plus I'm getting a bit tired of trying to find those Echo compatible parts sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 Yeah, unless you're in the Echo ecosystem fully I'd be inclined to step away from those cranks. The Trialtech Race Forged or Jitsie Forged cranks are both decent options. Not the lightest, but also fairly cheap and strong. You would need a new bashring to go with them though as the profile of the Echo bashring means that they don't sit flat on them properly (the bashring contacts the 'shoulder' of the crank arm, so it sits at an angle). New bashrings aren't super expensive though, so possibly not a deal breaker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardweb Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Mark W said: The Trialtech splines are the same HG spline as the 135-click freewheels, but they're not compatible as the Trialtech cranks have a shorter spline interface and use a different style of lockring compared to the interface the 135-click freewheels use. Oh I had completely forgotten that. Sorry for advising wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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