Chakers1998 Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 Hello all, I've recently built a 26 comp bike that uses horizontal dropouts, and I'm having to constantly undo my wheel bolts to add more tension to the chain with the snail cams I've got. The cams are the steel Trialtech ones with lots of fine points. I'm not sure what is causing my chain to need constant adjustment after 15 mins of hopping around on the back wheel, but I sanded the dropouts and bought some more grippy Tarty axle bolt washers (the Jitsie race ones are horrid and have no grip at all) to see if that would eliminate it, which it hasn't. The wheel also isn't coming out of side to side 'true' with the rim brakes that I notice it, nor is it moving noticeably enough that the pads are coming out of alignment. I also can't see it being the chain bedding in, there's no way a chain would stretch that much to need constant tensioning. Should I file bigger notches in the drive snail cam to have more positive and secure clicks that do not have the possibility of winding back off? The Trialtech steel cams are very very finely cut with 108 clicks, compared to other brands who use around half that number. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaderaMark Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 i used to have this issue way back on bmx days, then on dirt jumper and I hate face plants. So to save extra $$$ for the chain and effort of re-adjusting, I made a chain tensioner to all my bikes. It may look awkward, but it worked for me. I hate snag and loose on chains which is always the case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 How old is the bike/chain and what chain is it? It could be as simple as it being a relatively new chain that’s just stretching. I think people underestimate how much chains stretch especially some of the ones comp riders use (the KMC Kool chain stretches loads!). If it is just the chain it will eventually calm down and need fewer adjustments but sone chains are stiffer than others and personally I’ve found the KMC Z1eHX to be the stiffest/least stretchy chain I’ve ever used. Of course it could be something slipping but the chain could be something that a lot of people over look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 I'm sure you've already been told this by plenty of people, but use plenty of grease on your axle bolts! Your axle bolts should be the things keeping your wheel in place when you're riding, so if things are potentially shifting then they're a good place to start looking. If they're fitted either dry or with only a token amount of grease/lube they can bind and feel like they're tight whereas in reality they're not anywhere near close to the torque they could be at with grease involved. Make sure the threads are all good on your bolts and axle too. One thing you could do to check is to use something like a marker to mark a line across the edge of your cams and snail cam bolts. That way if the cam slips or rotates, it'll appear out of alignment with the line on the bolts. As Ali said, new chains do stretch much more than people expect, so it could simply be that if it's a brand new chain. New chain to used chain on my Arcade equates to about 2mm of movement back in the dropouts, so that 2mm via clicks on a snail cam will be quite a lot of clicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chakers1998 Posted May 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 Hi Ali, I'm using a KMC Z1eHX chain which has a few hours on it now. The bike also has a few hours on it now and I've stopped having to adjust my headset, brakes etc. I do weigh a fair bit, which has the advantage of breaking in chains quite quickly, but it's certainly making the chain loosening worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chakers1998 Posted May 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 Found that I'd mashed the cam. Luckily, my dad has some needle files that were small enough to file some bigger indents on the cam. I had to file another indent on the cam after trying it the first time, because it mashed the cam again. The extra indent made the chain too tight, but when the cam bedded into the snail cam bolt, it got to an appropriate tension. This tension didn't change after bouncing around on the back wheel for 20 mins. I'll have to see how it holds up on the DJ ride, but fingers crossed I won't have a sloppy chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Got any photos of what your snail cam is resting against? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chakers1998 Posted May 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, AdamR28 said: Got any photos of what your snail cam is resting against? Hi Adam, As in what it is resting against Side to side? I've got some pics of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 My fault for not being clear - I mean whatever the toothed outer edge of the cam is butting up against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chakers1998 Posted May 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Snail cam bolt. The standard ones on an ozonys skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Weird. The egde of the cam looks so beaten up! Never seen one like that before. Wondered if the snail cam bolt might have been weird / in a mess / something else, but no. Hopefully the new axle bolt washers help. Plenty of grease on the axle bolt threads and under the head, give it plenty of torque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chakers1998 Posted May 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, AdamR28 said: Weird. The egde of the cam looks so beaten up! Never seen one like that before. Wondered if the snail cam bolt might have been weird / in a mess / something else, but no. Hopefully the new axle bolt washers help. Plenty of grease on the axle bolt threads and under the head, give it plenty of torque I think the issue was when the bike was new I was using the Jitsie axle washers which have next to no teeth at all. Plus me probably not tightening down the bolts enough lead to the hub sliding in the dropouts and the cam taking all the load, hence the mashing. I had to swap out a borrowed BB today, which gave me a chance to look at the dropouts and the Tarty axle washers have left a good mark on the frame, plus sanding the frame where the washers clamp on must have helped a bit. Hopping around outside the house for a while hasn't made the chain loosen off, so it's looking like all systems are go. Thanks Everyone! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted May 14, 2022 Report Share Posted May 14, 2022 I had this issue with smooth cams. Ended up switching to Monty ones with big notches and had no issues after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chakers1998 Posted May 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2022 Its come loose again!! I've deformed the steel above one of the drilled out holes from where I've filed the cam for bigger notches. I've been really tightening down the axle bolts so I can't understand why the cam is taking so much load, because ideally it shouldn't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoofty Posted June 22, 2022 Report Share Posted June 22, 2022 I'm having this issue on my Onza Zoot now too (no snail cam though). I figure it's probably the fact that it's using M6 axle bolts and not M10 axle bolts, but unfortunately that's not an easy fix. I'm only on the Zoot for 2 more weeks so I'll just deal for now, but that's one of the reasons I've moved away form horizontal dropouts on all my other bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 22, 2022 Report Share Posted June 22, 2022 Yeah, that'll definitely be the M6 bolts vs. M10. They just don't allow you to tighten them up enough before you get enough tension. Loads of grease can help out a bit, but ultimately it's just a limitation of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chakers1998 Posted June 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2022 Just finished building a Hope trials hub. The Jitsie isn't cutting it, which is a shame as it's a really nice hub and it would be fine with vertical dropouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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