New Hope Tech 4 trials brake

[Canardweb]

I am surprised this was not discussed here:

https://www.hopetech.com/fre/products/brakes/trial/tech-4-trial-zone/

 

What are your thoughts?

[DJEHB]

The moto style lever is very ugly in my opinion.. but you can't argue with a 30% power increase

[La Bourde]

Be careful, they wrote "30% pressure increase". That does not imply 30% power increase (I guess the brake power increased though).

 

Do the Hope brake pads have play within the trial caliper?

I think the current brakes are powerful enough, the problem remaining is more the exposure of the rotor and the play on a 26" bike.

[DJEHB]

24 minutes ago, La Bourde said:

Be careful, they wrote "30% pressure increase". That does not imply 30% power increase (I guess the brake power increased though).

 

Do the Hope brake pads have play within the trial caliper?

I think the current brakes are powerful enough, the problem remaining is more the exposure of the rotor and the play on a 26" bike.

Good point!

 

I run tech 3 E4s on my 26” trials bike. Bit of tape on the pad backings and there’s no pad rock. The power is plenty as you say, I’m yet to have a single brake slip, and that’s with a 180 rear.

[Davetrials]

Fitted some of these last week on a 24kg E bike and holy shit the power out the door was insane, the new lever blade feels fantastic, theve gone for a flat sort of shape which slots in to your fingers by comparison makes the tech 3 feel like a bag of spanners. 

Despite my dislike for hope brakes i very NEARLY considered them 

If your in to hopes, then throw your old brakes in the bin and buy some now. 

 

[DJEHB]

Ok I’ve decided I fancy a set of these. Anyone know where or when they will be in stock?

 

After a silver set

[PLIW]

2 hours ago, DJEHB said:

Ok I’ve decided I fancy a set of these. Anyone know where or when they will be in stock?

 

After a silver set

Hope have them already. 
I’m sure Tarty could order.

 

https://www.bike24.com/p2571029.html

 

https://www.trial-bikes.com/en/hope-tech-4-trial-zone-disc-brake-p-538773.html

https://biketart.com/products/hope-tech-4-trial-zone-no-9-disc-brake

 

[AdamR28]

Yeah we have some on order. 8 week lead time at the moment. Will go on site once we physically have them in stock (rather than pre orders).

[Daan]

On 4/2/2022 at 12:28 PM, Davetrials said:

Fitted some of these last week on a 24kg E bike and holy shit the power out the door was insane, the new lever blade feels fantastic, theve gone for a flat sort of shape which slots in to your fingers by comparison makes the tech 3 feel like a bag of spanners. 

Despite my dislike for hope brakes i very NEARLY considered them 

If your in to hopes, then throw your old brakes in the bin and buy some now. 

 

Sounds good. Lever action a lot lighter as well than the T3 then? Always felt the return spring on the T3 is super heavy.

Might give the levers a go on my old calipers, when they become available separately.

[Rip]

Seriously considering some Tech 4 Trialzones (or even Tech 3) to replace my MT7's, brakes are such a tricky thing to purchase because they aren't cheap and they are so subjective so you have no idea if you'll like them until after all the expense and fitting.

 

Magura levers are so fragile it's ridiculous for a street trials bike that inevitably gets dropped on hard surfaces every so often. And on top of that all of a sudden my MT7's have lost their bite, they seem to work fine for an hour or so if I put some water on the rotors but after that the bite just fades away again, the levers are no more spongy than usual and the pads are definitely not contaminated.

 

Today I actually cleaned the rotors with 99.9% Isopropanol and gave the pads a very light rub on some sandpaper, some brown residue came off of the rotors and some black residue off of the pads but the brakes are still the same (no bite unless sprayed with water). Both pads and rotors are fairly new (Magura Performance Grey and Storm HC). The Grey pads used to throw me over the bars unexpectedly more times than I'd like but not anymore. Maybe I need new pads for whatever reason. 

 

Wondering if 2-pot Hope Trial Zones will have enough modulation and bite/holding power with 180mm rotors, I'm told 200mm rotors would improve holding power but also reduce modulation?

 

I quite fancied Hayes after Ali seemed to be getting on fine with them so I bought a used set on eBay but the seller cancelled the order because he'd listed the hose length wrong, the length would still have been fine for me but he never asked and just cancelled it! I've also since read quite a lot about them failing a lot too so maybe I dodged a bullet there anyway. 

 

How has the perfect brake set not yet been designed? Robust, easy to bleed with adjustable modulation and bite and user serviceable. Too much to ask apparently lol

Edited April 6, 2022 by Rip

[La Bourde]

I think it is really difficult to design a good brake but also to produce it in mass with the same quality.

 

There are two other brakes with a good reputation in MTB:

- Formula Cura: only drawback seems to be the bleeding operation, which can be difficult.

- Tricksuff brakes: another caliber. Really expensive, high quality, a lot of power and almost impossible to get currently. I read some people had troubles with, but I can imagine that after a crash, almost all brakes may have troubles. 

 

To be honest for street trial, I guess my choice will be the Avid BB7 now. They are really underrated. I have some Zee with Trickstuff brakepads, I have very satisfied with but I already broke a caliper and a lever and I have to adjust them every two rides, never understood why. I have to bleed them also regularly, maybe every 6 months.

But with my BB7, none of this. I have to compensate the wear of the brakepads, that's all. With good cables (slic cable for BMX bikes), I cannot complain.

Sure the Zee feels better, but they are not so strong and required more maintenance.

 

I wish the B7 were using nice bearing, to have a better feeling.

I know that Paul has high end mechanical brakes, but I think it is too boutique to be good. TRP and Shimano have also mechanical brakes, but not as good as the BB7.

 

[Ali C]

I’m still on my original Hayes Dominion that I bought over a year ago (I think?) and it’s been extremely reliable with no sticking pistons, no leaks, no cracking or breaking of any kind. I’ve not had to bleed it or really touch it since I fitted out which is ideal.

 

 I’ve now got some more brakes fitted to other bikes and so far I’ve not had any issues with them either although they’ve only been on for a shorter time.

 

As for the other brakes you mentioned. Before I got the Hayes I did get some Forumla Cura models to try but as soon as I fitted them to the bike I knew I didn’t like them simply for how sluggish the lever felt, it was like it was bled with syrup or something.

 

Bb7s are indeed good but the main reason I didn’t like them for Street trials was the front brake being routed through the steerer made for some pretty sharp bends and it really effected how the brake felt, same with the rear but to a lesser extent when the cables got tighter when doing footjams…at least a hydraulic brake is consistent in how it feels

[La Bourde]

A friend has a Cura brake on his pumptrack bike and it did not feel sluggish to me. It was a 2 piston model though. Did you have the 2 or 4 pistons?

I have to say I neither do footjams nor barspins, so I do not encountered this issue with the BB7. I have to do some progress first 

I never tried the Dominion unfortunately. But your feedback is really positive, so one has to consider them.

 

Brakes are also a personal preference. A friend of mine is a big fan of hope, I appreciate them but I won't say they are much better than other.

Somehow it seems that there is no brake much better than the other on the market. 

 

[Daan]

There's this great thread on Ridemonkey about MTB brakes and why they all suck in a way. It also has a spreadsheet with a lot of measurements taken for a lot of different brakes, of their levers and hydraulic ratio's, so you can sort of objectively compare their power: https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/frankenbrakes-and-brake-improvement-discussion.274164/.

To visualize the data in that thread, I built a small tool, in which you can also mix and match different levers and calipers to see how they stack up to factory brakes. Again. it's not super accurate because of the way the leverage ratio of the lever is measured and calculated, but it does give a bit of an indication: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl/

[Swoofty]

For cable disc brakes, the TRP Spyke is top notch. I haven't checked prices, but definitely not cheaper than a bb7. The drawback of cable discs for me is the strong return springs. Too much finger fatigue for the quick on-off usage in street trials.

Still loving my MT5s all around; no complaints.

[La Bourde]

It seems that the TRP habe less power than the BB7. I never tried them though.

 

I agree with you about the finger fatigue, but to be fair it is much less than with HS33.

[Maintenance Justice]

I was running an old Louise but decided on swapping the calliper out for an MT7 for a bit more power and just decided to chance it by keeping the Louise lever. Tell you what, impressed so far, lever feel is spot on on, light, and the TPA is handy for dialling in the feel - the power is nuts. I really like the direct feel of the in line master piston and longer lever blade. As a bit of an ad hoc experiment it’s working remarkably well.

Looking forward to getting in the TECH 4 in at Tarty to see what the differences in feel are as we’re fortunate to have TECH 3 on the shelf to compare with. 

[Daan]

So, anyone got some time on the T4 TZ yet?

[DJEHB]

On 5/25/2022 at 9:17 PM, Daan said:

So, anyone got some time on the T4 TZ yet?

Mine just got pushed back another 10 weeks so have pulled the plug

[AdamR28]

Tarty have stock now. Lever feel is lovely and light. The whole thing looks smaller in person than on photos, weirdly. Power is going to be a touch more than the Tech 3, with associated reduction in pad / rotor clearance.

[Daan]

Cheers Adam. Lever feel is my main gripe with the T3, the spring is pretty stiff. Did they actually change the seals in the calipers for ones with less piston retraction?

Looking at the exploded drawings, I see they use a glide ring around the lever piston as well now, just like Trickstuff and Hayes. Should be great for durability and smoothness. They'll blow the Hayes out of the water as far as finishing quality is concerned, so I reckon they'll make a great poor man's Trickstuff. I may need to give them a shot

[craigjames]

Fitted mine up yesterday, lovely light lever feel and plenty of power. Set up needs to be bang on, but wasn't difficult. Just waiting for complete levers to become available so I can upgrade my front trial zone brake.

[DJEHB]

On 5/27/2022 at 1:59 PM, AdamR28 said:

Tarty have stock now. Lever feel is lovely and light. The whole thing looks smaller in person than on photos, weirdly. Power is going to be a touch more than the Tech 3, with associated reduction in pad / rotor clearance.

I’d ordered a silver set through a friend’s trade account, but I guess black products are always going to be at the front of the production line!

[Maintenance Justice]

On 5/27/2022 at 1:59 PM, AdamR28 said:

Tarty have stock now. Lever feel is lovely and light. The whole thing looks smaller in person than on photos, weirdly. Power is going to be a touch more than the Tech 3, with associated reduction in pad / rotor clearance.

'Had'  - we've sold out at the moment but more are on the way including some silver but it's still a 10-week wait sadly. Lever feel is vastly improved, the new roller bearing and pivot / nut makes things much smoother. It's noticeably lighter in the action too. Haven't tried one on a bike yet, but all indications are good.

[craigjames]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:49 AM, Maintenance Justice said:

'Had'  - we've sold out at the moment but more are on the way including some silver but it's still a 10-week wait sadly. Lever feel is vastly improved, the new roller bearing and pivot / nut makes things much smoother. It's noticeably lighter in the action too. Haven't tried one on a bike yet, but all indications are good.

Got to agree, really impressed with mine so far. Loving the lighter lever action and the adjust-ability. Glad that it's switched to a roller bearing at the pivot, no more lever slop, overall just a much more solid lever than the trial zones i've had before.