Your opinion

[Alanward87]

So, im looking at a street trials bike. I was just going to get the flow + 24 inch with mt4's. At the min these are out of stock. Being impatient I started looking at other bikes, I have seen the czar ion +. Is there any reason why any of you would pick one over the other? 

 

Quite a noob question and likely it will fall down to personal preference but wanted to rule out any technical points. 

 

If it helps, im 5'11 and 15 stone. Limited experience but can do some basics but would not get any points for style lol. 

 

[Swoofty]

Czar Ion plus is a great bike. Depending on which components it has, it's better than the Flow. Neither one blows the other away.

 

[Alanward87]

1 hour ago, Swoofty said:

Czar Ion plus is a great bike. Depending on which components it has, it's better than the Flow. Neither one blows the other away.

 

It reads like a reasonable spec but as a novice in the trials world again dont have any experience to say. The link below is what I was looking at.

 

https://www.tartybikes.co.uk/24_inch_trials_bikes/czar_ion_plus_24_inch/c50p13169.html?pos=986.2857055664062&search_params=YTo3OntzOjEyOiJjYXRlZ29yeV9pZHMiO2E6MTp7aTowO3M6MjoiNTAiO31zOjE2OiJjYXRlZ29yeV9yZWN1cnNlIjtiOjE7czo4OiJrZXl3b3JkcyI7czowOiIiO3M6OToiYnJhbmRfaWRzIjtOO3M6NDoibW9kZSI7czozOiJhbGwiO3M6NDoic29ydCI7czo5OiJwcmljZV9hc2MiO3M6MTA6ImNvdW50cnlfaWQiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%3D%3D#&gid=1&pid=8

Anyone know what these brakes are like?

[Swoofty]

Comparing them as complete bikes, they are very evenly matched (except the Czar is a fair bit lighter). When it comes time to upgrade, the differences are greater. They both have goofy freewheel setups, but the Flow has the more traditional freewheel in the rear so when you want to upgrade it, you don't have to change your cranks. On the Czar the freewheel is up front so to go with a freehub in the rear you'll need to at least add a chainring and bashguard (which Echo makes) to the Isis cranks to make it work. If you want to upgrade the cranks it gets very tricky as there are few Isis BB options for that style of crank anymore. If you want Shimano or Sram cranks you'll have to ditch the Isis BB and find some proper spacers (I made a video on that ;-) I'm not sure why the Asian brands haven't come away from Spanish BB and Isis axles. 

Again, as a complete bike, they are both very similar. I'd imagine the Alias 24.1 is also pretty similar and no Isis BB and it's the same weight as the Flow (which is sad for the Flow). If you can find a Czar Neuron 24 in your price range that's the winner. Better geo, killer fork and even lighter. Trendcycles in Switzerland has a few of them, but not sure what import is like for the UK at the moment.

You'll have fun on whichever you choose. Inspired and Echo/Czar aren't making any crap 24s at the moment.

EDIT - Just checked Trendcycles, they're all gone :-(

Edited December 4, 2020 by Swoofty

[cookie70]

My son has the 20" version of that czar. Had a few teething issues when we first got it and ended up changing out the cable pull brakes to hydralic. Been awesome since then, no issues and I would say those magura hydralics will do the job!

[Mark W]

8 hours ago, Swoofty said:

I'd imagine the Alias 24.1 is also pretty similar and no Isis BB and it's the same weight as the Flow (which is sad for the Flow).

The Flow is 200g lighter in the claimed weights, but worth noting that the Flow 24" was built with discs and the Alias with V-Brakes. The disc brake spec adds a fairly significant amount of weight. Just one 180mm Avid rotor is pretty much the same weight as the V-Brake calipers/pads/noodle/fixing bolts, so that skews things quite a bit.

In terms of the Ion vs. the Flow Plus, the Flow Plus has some hidden benefits. As an example, the new Flow Plus bikes come with screw-in top caps on the forks so you can easily route the front brake hose through the steerer tube. You can't do that with the Ion unless you're able to find a hollow star nut kit that's the right size. Believe that's a tricky one due to the wall thickness of the forks fitted to that bike. The tensioners on the Czar bikes aren't incredible, so being able to just use a pretty conventional set of chain tugs is a win as far as I'm concerned. The other point is the compatibility for future upgrades that Swoofty mentioned before. It's easier to make little upgrades here and the to the Flow Plus than it is on the Czar bikes. The Czars use quite a bit of proprietary fitment parts, whereas the Inspired (and Alias) bikes are much more standardised so you've got a bigger pool of bits to go to.

Overall though, both bikes are good. You could realistically get either bike straight out of the box and have a good time on it, which is kind of the main thing really. The Czars are a little shorter than I'd like personally, but everyone's different on that front. 

[Alanward87]

Thanks all for the detailed assessment, being rather green to modern bikes it was certainly needed. 

Being 33 and mainly riding with my kid I don't see that the upgrade side of things will be a huge issue as I don't think I will progress beyond what the bike is capable of. it will be a consideration though as no doubt the son will inherit it at some point. Now you mention it the Czar Neuron 24 it looks interesting, I have not considered it as I have not found any here in the UK. I don't really have a budget as such just want a decent ish bike to play on that's does not cost the earth for the sake of it, at the end of the day the bike will not make me better. I have found a Czar Neuron 24 from an online store in Poland that will deliver to the UK. I will be giving that some serious consideration but not for to long as we exit the European union at the end of this month. Imports may be more costly and time consuming after then. 

 

 

[Paperclip]

The flow range is designed around the current Inspired range and their team of riders and in my eyes the detail in the frame, the geometry and build quality of the frame/ frame kit is worth waiting for them to be back into stock. They've really put the effort in and starting with a bike like this over time you can upgrade it and end up with a bike build as good as a fourplay (I actually prefer the flow frame kit to the fourplay or Skye). 

The czar will be enjoyable for sure and looks great but I think it lack in the geometry and you would still end up wanting to replace some of those components over time/ likely the frame kit.  

 

You could get one of those Expansion bikes but how good they are, how good their after sales care is and have they been sanitized? who knows.