Required skills for an intermediate

[TomWood]

What are the required trials skills someone has to have for you to think they're and "intermediate" rider and no longer just a "beginner"? And are there any minimum heights, distances, or times for these skills?

The thought is that with these skills, a trials rider in theory has all the tools in his kit to take on any trials challenge if it's scaled appropriately. And then to become an advanced/expert rider, you learn to become much more precise and explosive.  You would be able to do these moves in tougher situations as well as being able to tweak them with more rotation or combine sequences to make much more difficult lines possible. 

Posing the question simply to open a conversation. Obviously this is a super arbitrary thing. Just asking out of curiosity about what your views are. It might also provide insight into any skills I should work on alongside what I'm currently working on and up to. 

[CC12345678910]

As you say, arbitrary. On that front, I'm going to turn it around & get you to describe what you think a beginner is - by logic, when you stop being those things the term beginner has stopped being accurate?

It's not just a case of ...because 1st bike nor is it noobery or just being the FNK in a riding group nor it physical age - just because most peeps find trials @ 14 doesn't mean a chubby middle aged person can't impulse buy a 14th hand bike of ebay et al and have a go for craic.

Describing yourself as a beginner to others to be self deprocating and cover over that you're just a bit shit isn't accurate either... The afternoon after I got furloughed t'other week I was a bit lost and pretty f**ked off so I dug the inspired out & it turns out that infrequency of riding trials the last couple years means all bar the most basic skills had to be re-familiarised, and my 1st. trials bike was bought for me in 2006. I found re learning stuff I once knew inside out, all using my local-est spots that I've rinsed to death to the very near point of boredom, gave me purpose and, rather than spitting the dummy, quite carthartic in that context.

In that regard, what trials will do (or did through my formative years) is mold the rider as a person, it will shape their mental outlook, influence their maturity, their work ethic, their will to sacrifice, their want & ability to set (an) objective(s) - and stubbornly stick to it (them) - but also when to pack it in - where is & is not ok to ride (street, countryside, whatever). It will teach them to be a good enough judge of character to relise they're about to get jumped for their bike in 30secs (acute life lesson nearly learned to hard way that one was), it'll form who they do and don't hang around/think is or isn't an absolute c unit and it teach them there is bugger all reason besides self imposed mental block/nonsensical BS you can't learn anything you feel like.

in short, my impulsive answer to your, I s'pose philosophy(???), question stems alot from how you carry yourself. There is alot of skill level to be found in keeping bad attitudes n tantrums etc. in check. I found that was the foundations of getting better at anything.

I feel skills wise Julien @ trashzen has got that pretty well licked in the basics section www.trashzen.com/trashzen.php

[bikeperson45]

I consider intermediate to be when a rider has most of the techniques down, so taps, moves to front, a few spins and maybe hooks, are all fairly consistant at a comfortable height.  I think the difference between intermediate and expert is then adding height that's over bar height and also just the degree of comfort on a bike.

When I've watched pro level competition riders my take away has always been how comfortable they are backhopping on a narrow object, how comfortable they are going for an 8ft gap and jumps up to higher obstacles. That's my thought process for 'purer' trials, when it comes to the street stuff I think the pro guys are those that can come up with a million little varitiaons of all kind of moves of a simple set up, and, again, how natural it looks when doing it.    

[aener]

1 hour ago, bikeperson45 said:

...

Almost exactly this, though I would put hooks in advanced because they're an absolute horror to learn, and so easy to lose again if you don't do them regularly (mostly because of confidence rather than skill, but the effect is the same).

Edit: By hooks I refer to the rolling kind rather than the hanging variety. I don't have enough experience with them to comment

Edited June 8, 2020 by aener

[CC12345678910]

2 hours ago, aener said:

Edit: By hooks I refer to the rolling kind rather than the hanging variety. I don't have enough experience with them to comment

I wanna see a hanging hook/batman to lawnmower to footjam fakie. Get it done Flipp. Also, video or it didn't happen haha

[La Bourde]

I think to be considered as an intermediate you need a certain number of posts on this forum.

Some examples:

• Flipp has more than 4000 posts and is an amazing rider.
• Ben Travis has more than 6000
• Ali C more than 11k ...

I have less than 100. This proves my theory.

Edited June 8, 2020 by La Bourde

[aener]

I know of quite a few people who prove that wrong, on both ends of the rule

[isitafox]

8 hours ago, aener said:

I know of quite a few people who prove that wrong, on both ends of the rule

[TomWood]

19 hours ago, bikeperson45 said:

I consider intermediate to be when a rider has most of the techniques down, so taps, moves to front, a few spins and maybe hooks, are all fairly consistant at a comfortable height.  I think the difference between intermediate and expert is then adding height that's over bar height and also just the degree of comfort on a bike.

When I've watched pro level competition riders my take away has always been how comfortable they are backhopping on a narrow object, how comfortable they are going for an 8ft gap and jumps up to higher obstacles. That's my thought process for 'purer' trials, when it comes to the street stuff I think the pro guys are those that can come up with a million little varitiaons of all kind of moves of a simple set up, and, again, how natural it looks when doing it.    

This pretty close to what I was looking for. Interesting to read that bar height is your break point. 

Taps being rear wheel hops onto objects and over gaps as well as side-hops? And moves to front being gaps to front wheel with a wheel swap? I do feel as if the rotations/spins have a large range of difficulty. I picked up front-wheel pivots quite easily, but the static 180 pedal hops just don't make any sense to my body at the moment.

And you're right about the comfort. Watching some videos online makes the moves look so simple and smooth once you get the technique down, but then I break it down and realize I'd be terrified to be on top of some of the features they're on. 

aener's comment on the front hooks makes sense too once the wall is truly vertical. I did think that was a technique you would be required to learn to really open up lines on larger objects though. It seems to be the only way to get up something higher than 4ish feet unless you have a bump or ramp. 

[aener]

32 minutes ago, TomWood said:

It seems to be the only way to get up something higher than 4ish feet unless you have a bump or ramp. 

Unless you start going in for power, that's not far from true, and they really are helpful for openning up bigger lines, but I think it's pretty reasonable to put 4ft+ lines in Advanced.

I think another sign of Advanced over intermediate would be having some ability to do things the opposite way or using the wrong foot. This is mainly a comp thing, but it opens up lines for everyone else to a lesser extent too.

[Ali C]

I think for me it's as much ability to ride but also the experience to know when and how to bail. Beginners will often go down with the ship because they don't have the experience to know when a move is going past the point of no return and end up eating shit. You can often tell who is an intermediate/advanced rider by seeing how and when they bail.

Edit: There's always exceptions though, even the most experienced riders will crash hard if they're at their limit or trying something totally new...but I guess a beginner is trying something new most rides

[marg26]

33 minutes ago, Ali C said:

..but I guess a beginner is trying something new most rides

If they've got that far... But then we're going back to comfort... And being rigid on the bike. Depends on the age/size of balls I guess. Being older I need to avoid injury as much as possible, so tend to stick to pushing little bits on what I can do rather than starting afresh on what I can't. Which takes me back to fear and comfort again. Yeah... I'm definitely still a beginner. I have been questioning recently if I'll ever make it past beginner. I can't physically practice everyday even if I did have time.

[TomWood]

5 hours ago, Ali C said:

I think for me it's as much ability to ride but also the experience to know when and how to bail. Beginners will often go down with the ship because they don't have the experience to know when a move is going past the point of no return and end up eating shit. 

This is actually one of the things holding back my progression a bit. Getting just a little bit older, the fear of injury is higher than it used to be when I was a teenager. And I know I don't quite have the skills or comfort to pull out a safe landing or bail elegantly. So there's that knowledge that if I fail a bigger move, I'm probably going to fail painfully. All part of the sport, but I wish I had started as a kid. 

[Ali C]

TBF I am noticing as I'm getting older I'm getting a little more scared than I used to be, I still push myself but there's stuff I'm avoiding which I'm sure the younger me would've tried

[Stephen Morris]

On 09/06/2020 at 5:47 PM, Ali C said:

TBF I am noticing as I'm getting older I'm getting a little more scared than I used to be, I still push myself but there's stuff I'm avoiding which I'm sure the younger me would've tried

Pussy 

 

I’m going to define trials at it’s core as being the concept of riding a bike through a section of obstacles. I’m also going to avoid listing the arbitrary skills required to meet each standard.

I like the notion that where a beginner might struggle through lack of confidence, experience or ability to make it through a section, an intermediate rider has the balance, conviction and skill to slowly work their way through most/if not all of the section, but has to find solutions in order to overcome problems.

An expert rider however has no issue at all, and is able to use more advanced moves to quickly and effortlessly complete the section.

[MadManMike]

On 08/06/2020 at 9:35 PM, La Bourde said:

I think to be considered as an intermediate you need a certain number of posts on this forum.

Some examples:

• Flipp has more than 4000 posts and is an amazing rider.
• Ben Travis has more than 6000
• Ali C more than 11k ...

I have less than 100. This proves my theory.

Yeah your theory is very wrong.

See also: my post count.

I never really progressed past beginner on a trials bike, I'm a bit better on an MTB these days but my survival instinct has always held me back - I think a big crash when I was about 17 started it, I've been cautious on two wheels ever since.