Covid19

[Danny]

Ive got my 2nd Pfizer on the 17th.  Surprised at how many of you have had your seconds already, you must be a lot older than i thought haha.

Covid's hitting the local schools pretty hard (Leeds) so it feels like its only a matter of time before we all get it.

The whole football thing just feels like a piss take really.  All the videos on social media of pubs rammed full of people cheering and hugging yet you're limited to 6 people at home.

[isitafox]

Schools here are getting hammered as well. Currently got the whole of year 10 off isolating along with half of years 7 + 8.

The kids don't give a shit though, one girl I know literally kicked off with her mates over a flow test because she wouldn't have it that you had to give them half an hour to show the results. Just chucked it in the bin and f**ked it off. 

And another girl who's the daughter of a friend tested positive on a flow test so got a proper test and went in to school while she waited for the results which then came back positive (which accounted for half of the year 10's off). 

[Davetrials]

On 08/07/2021 at 0:32 PM, Danny said:

Ive got my 2nd Pfizer on the 17th.  Surprised at how many of you have had your seconds already, you must be a lot older than i thought haha.

Covid's hitting the local schools pretty hard (Leeds) so it feels like its only a matter of time before we all get it.

The whole football thing just feels like a piss take really.  All the videos on social media of pubs rammed full of people cheering and hugging yet you're limited to 6 people at home.

i heard they were doing the whole rock up and get a jab thing in a village near mine, so i jumped right on that as I have a holiday planned a few days before my second jab was due, which would have been shit

[Mark W]

On 08/07/2021 at 0:32 PM, Danny said:

Ive got my 2nd Pfizer on the 17th.  Surprised at how many of you have had your seconds already, you must be a lot older than i thought haha.

Because a lot of it is down to how efficient health boards are, I think it depends a lot on where you are as much as anything. My sister got her first and second doses before my Mum, as an example. Just the difference between living in a Cardiff health board and living in rural Wales.

On 08/07/2021 at 1:15 PM, isitafox said:

And another girl who's the daughter of a friend tested positive on a flow test so got a proper test and went in to school while she waited for the results which then came back positive (which accounted for half of the year 10's off). 

Heard a few stories of things like that happening. People are f**king morons/this is why we can't have nice things.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

On 08/07/2021 at 0:32 PM, Danny said:

Ive got my 2nd Pfizer on the 17th.  Surprised at how many of you have had your seconds already, you must be a lot older than i thought haha.

. I'm 39 but we were definitely 'ahead of the curve' in our local area and got the invites a good chunk before we 'should've'.

[Mark W]

So had my second Pfizer dose on Monday. Think the first nurse I had must have been raging or something and just slammed that needle into my arm - this time I barely even felt the injection at all. Had a bit of a dead/heavy arm feeling the day after and some minor aches, but nothing really too bad. Was hitting up the paracetamol pre-emptively to try and nip anything in the bud, but aside from a bit of fatigue it's been fine. That could also be house moving megastress and a lack of sleep talking though. Has been pleasantly surprising though, was expecting it to be much worse. Nic had her's today so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out for her.

[manuel]

Get ready for lockdown 4.0 (or whatever we are up to) everyone …

cases here are going bananas and hospital admissions are doubling week on week. 

it’s depressing watching the same shitshow over and over again.

[AdamR28]

No wonder with how ineffective the vaccines appear to actually be: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/

TL:DR: 19-29% according to that article.

 

If over 60% of hospital admissions have been double jabbed (I am quite sure that guy gave the correct stat, then was told to issue a 'correction', the sort of U turn becoming common for this bunch of idiots in charge), this is almost exactly the same percentage of UK adults who have been double jabbed...

Yes, we are seeing reduced deaths as a proportion of cases in this wave, but we are gaining natural immunity over time, its summer, and a proportion of those most susceptible to Covid have now passed on. Yet they will claim to have done a brilliant job introducing the vaccine and its been amazingly successful, blah blah.

 

Strong opinion alert:

Prediction: Over the next year, our freedoms will be reduced and requirement for vaccine passports increased. Then Covid jabs will become a paid service with booster jabs required every few months to maintain valid vaccine passport status. We'll effectively have a nation of drug addicts. This will bolster the NHS balance sheet ready for sale (anyone remember "Save The NHS" and those working in hospitals commenting on how quiet it was?), and those with shares / fingers in pharmaceutical pies will make huge wedges of cash.

 

(Edit to add: I know I have been skeptical throughout this thread, but I am not anti vax in any way. However, when I am being told to do something (2 letters and 7 text messages now, and counting) by someone / something it makes me wonder why. So I start to research things for myself, and form what I hope to be an unbiased and rounded opinion, no matter which side of the fence that falls, and always be open to changing that with further information and research).

[AdamR28]

9 hours ago, manuel said:

Get ready for lockdown 4.0 (or whatever we are up to) everyone …

Don't worry, it won't happen until parliament are back from summer recess in September. Which - coincidental timing with 'freedom day' - starts tomorrow...

[Mark W]

1 hour ago, Adam@TartyBikes said:

This will bolster the NHS balance sheet ready for sale (anyone remember "Save The NHS" and those working in hospitals commenting on how quiet it was?), and those with shares / fingers in pharmaceutical pies will make huge wedges of cash.

It's already been sold for a while now, and the cash has been flowing freely - the Tories opened vastly more of the NHS up to privatisation in 2012 and plenty of money has gone to sketchy companies who outbid for services/contracts then totally failed to deliver. They even get paid when they subsequently lose contracts, e.g. Serco getting £15m for losing a contract*. The money is in those contracts, so the overall 'value' of the NHS doesn't really make much difference to them - making the NHS look worse is typically better as they can come in and promise to improve things and 'make them more efficient' which also partially explains the Tories deliberately underfunding the NHS for so long. That's why there are now private companies running full hospitals themselves now, under the umbrella of the NHS. Pretty sweet way to make sure that you can get all the additional contracts for that hospital, as well as get involved with the cottage industry of 'management consultants' making serious money there.

Ultimately, those who want to get rich from it already are. That's why it's all the more frustrating knowing there were so many people out there clapping for the NHS who will happily vote Conservative again. 

No doubt they'll be using some of this as cover to try and get more cash out of the system, but I think that's more them being opportunistic f**ks rather than anything else. It's been their modus operandi for decades.

 

*Serco have f**ked up plenty of government contracts, and have done again with parts of the Test & Trace system. They keep getting contracts though. Can't think why... "Serco’s chief executive is Rupert Soames, the grandson of Sir Winston Churchill and the brother of former Conservative MP, Sir Nicholas Soames. Health minister Edward Argar MP was formerly a lobbyist for Serco and is now the MP for Charnwood in Leicestershire."

 

EDIT: Forgot to say, but the booster thing will certainly be happening - Pfizer have already been pushing for that in the US, and have also quadrupled the price of the doses for booster shots. Nice of them. They seem to be angling it more for people who would have been in the shielding category here though, as I believe they are in the US. Just adding it as another shot people need to receive like they do with the flu jab every year is a pretty quiet/simple/easy way of raking more cash in without having to f**k about too much getting other people to have it. There's always another disaster or problem to capitalise on on the horizon for them either way...

[AdamR28]

I stand corrected, thanks Mark! 

[JT!]

2 hours ago, Adam@TartyBikes said:

If over 60% of hospital admissions have been double jabbed (I am quite sure that guy gave the correct stat, then was told to issue a 'correction', the sort of U turn becoming common for this bunch of idiots in charge), this is almost exactly the same percentage of UK adults who have been double jabbed...

Are you concluding that because 60% of the population have been double jabbed, and 60% of the population who end up hospitalized have been double jabbed, that the vaccine is basically completely ineffective?

[AdamR28]

Not completely, but certainly not the 90% or whatever is claimed...

[JT!]

Do we know what percentage of the spike in new cases the UK is seeing is from the delta variant? It seems that even though cases in the UK are going up dramatically, the deaths don't seem to be following. Could that suggest that the vaccine isn't effective against the delta variant when it comes to symptoms, but is good at preventing it from being fatal? (Or prehaps the delta variant isn't as fatal naturally). I don't think the vaccine has ever claimed to be 95% effective against the delta variant.

[Mark W]

11 minutes ago, JT! said:

Could that suggest that the vaccine isn't effective against the delta variant when it comes to symptoms, but is good at preventing it from being fatal?

The efficacy of the vaccine is against serious illness/death, rather than stopping people getting it at all from my understanding of it. I knew of a few people who were double dosed who subsequently got covid, and it made me question it a bit so I did a bit of reading/listening. I'd assumed that the whole point of the vaccine was to stop you getting it at all, but it seems that it's partially to do that but also limit the effects of it. Basically, if it makes you less ill it makes it harder for you to transmit the virus. It seems like viral load is one of the factors that dictates how ill people get from it, so if people with the virus are putting out less of it (technical terms) then other people are less likely to catch it.

In terms of the vaccine reducing serious illness, the US is a pretty good example of this where you compare hospitalisation stats in different states with their vaccination stats. There's a bit on that here.

EDIT: Forgot to say - went to a wedding on Monday. Was the day restrictions were lifted, so things were somewhat back to normal. 80-90 guests - for the ceremony (which was still done outside, although could have been inside), the seats were packed into the space so tightly that they touched side-to-side, and I could only just get my knees in behind the seat in front of me. Similarly, we were all mixed up on the seating plans for the wedding breakfast, so we were all in there pretty much elbow to elbow with strangers. Certainly had a weird feeling to it all after over a year of not really being in that close proximity to people.

 

[AdamR28]

I think a vast majority are being identified as Delta, maybe 90%.

I would say hospitalisation through Covid means you've got it pretty bad.

 

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/gps-and-data-indicate-continued-rise-in-double-vaccinated-covid-cases/

"A weekly update from the ZOE study at King’s College London, said there were currently 15,537 new daily symptomatic cases in partly or fully vaccinated people, an increase of 40% from 11,084 new cases last week.

By contrast in unvaccinated people in the UK there are currently an average of 17,581 new daily PCR-confirmed symptomatic cases of Covid, according to the ZOE figures, a drop of 22% from the week before.

It suggests the number of new cases in the vaccinated population is set to overtake the unvaccinated in the coming days, the team noted."

Of course, if 100% of people are vaccinated and there is 1 case then that means vaccinated people make up 100% of those with the disease, and gradually more people are having the vaccine - but with unvaccinated cases dropping and vaccinated cases increasing so quickly (faster than the speed of vaccine rollout), it seems to indicate that naturally acquired immunity is doing a better job than the vaccine.

We are also seeing reduced deaths as a proportion of cases in this wave, but we are gaining natural immunity over time, its summer, and a proportion of those most susceptible to Covid have now passed on.

Could be down to the Delta variant being more easily spread and less damaging, that is true.

[Mark W]

It'd be interesting to know how much of it is people's level of risk tolerance changing, and that leading to an increase in situations for people to get exposure to the virus? What I mean by that is I'm assuming people who are getting vaccinated now are probably more likely to have adhered to the lockdown rules when they were first implemented, so it's whether you've got this cohort of people who have been less exposed to the virus in general who are now being given more freedom and consequently there being a greater pool of people who were less likely to have had it before now getting the risk of exposure to it?

Worded it like shit, but basically I'm guessing people who were having illegal raves last year are unlikely to be getting vaccinated, whereas the people who were shut in their houses for most of last year will probably be more likely to get the vaccine.

Ultimately the only way out of this is some form of herd immunity, so whatever the ratio of vaccinated people is to people who have got antibodies/whatever from having already had covid it doesn't really matter too much. At least the whole 'flattening the curve' thing last year will have reduced the chances of a mutation happening earlier along that could have led to it being a much worse illness than it already is/can be. Know a few people down here who are +/- 10yrs of my age who have had long covid despite being previously healthy and it sounds like dogshit. That's not even including those who've lost family members, etc. How relatively indiscriminate it is is the weird thing too. Obviously older people are more susceptible to death/serious illness from it, but just within my friendship circles down here there are a lot of people I wouldn't have expected to really be at risk of any serious complications who have been somewhat f**ked by it.

EDIT: Just read that link you posted Ads - guess it kind of covers what I was asking up there further into the article:

ZOE study leader Professor Tim Spector said overall the data suggested incidence rates were starting to plateau.

But he added: ‘In the UK, new cases in vaccinated people are still going up and will soon outpace unvaccinated cases.

‘This is probably because we’re running out of unvaccinated susceptible people to infect as more and more people get the vaccine.

‘Whilst the figures look worrying, it’s important to highlight that vaccines have massively reduced severe infections and post-vaccination Covid is a much milder disease for most people. The main concern is now the risk of long Covid.’

Sounds like we're getting to that herd immunity point now. Hopefully there's not some dick of a variant to come along and f**k it all up.

[JT!]

1 hour ago, Adam@TartyBikes said:

Of course, if 100% of people are vaccinated and there is 1 case then that means vaccinated people make up 100% of those with the disease, and gradually more people are having the vaccine - but with unvaccinated cases dropping and vaccinated cases increasing so quickly (faster than the speed of vaccine rollout), it seems to indicate that naturally acquired immunity is doing a better job than the vaccine.

Isn't there some circular logic going on there? Wouldn't herd immunity be happening quicker due to there being so many vaccinated people? Take away the vaccine and that would hinder herd immunity. Also the linked article seemed to suggest that because the number of people who've been vaccinated is so high now, it's expected that more vaccinated people are getting covid simply because there's so many of them. I see that this isn't happening in countries like the USA where the delta variant isn't a big issue... yet.

50 minutes ago, Mark W said:

Sounds like we're getting to that herd immunity point now. Hopefully there's not some dick of a variant to come along and f**k it all up.

Is that not what's happening in the UK right now?

[Mark W]

Yes and no - it's still relatively low risk to most people even if it is more contagious, so I was thinking more along the lines of a variant that has a significantly higher risk of serious illness/death across more age bands. The delta variant isn't ideal, but it could definitely be worse.

[Ali C]

9 hours ago, Adam@TartyBikes said:

Long post shortened

Its nice to see someone who’s also skeptical, seems to be a subject that’s hard to go against the grain without being branded an anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist.

 

I’m still un-vaxxed and I hate it when people ask how my jabs went and I have to explain my situation.

Personally I’m seriously suspicious about the whole thing, I’m not definitely thinking it was planned but I think there’s been some sketchy people doing sketchy things and then profiting from the outcome.

 There’s been leaked emails from people connected with big pharma companies which contain some potentially incriminating info (but it seems the FBI have censored much of it/them). It’s mostly illegal for anyone to experiment with viruses and purposely increase it’s contagious except for two places, a lab in California and a lab in China…any guess where?

Funding for these experiments seems to be linked to the pharma industry, the same ones who are now helping produce vaccines and reaping the profits.

I’m vague on the details as it’s second had from Jane who is extremely interested in the subject and has filled me in on what’s she’s researched.

 

If the above isn’t true then I’m willing to accept I’m wrong if evidence supports it, even so I’m still sketched out that an emergency vaccine for the most vulnerable is now being “forced” onto everybody…I say forced as I agree with Adam that our freedom will be limited if we don’t take it…I’m potentially missing out on doing shows at Eurobike this year due to vaccine passports being necessary.

I strongly feel the government has never acted in a way that directly benefits the public, every action has firstly been to benefit them or their associates and I feel no different with this vaccine, I think it’s to benefit pharma corps that they may have connections with and they’re playing it off as “taking action” and to get a pat on the back. I’ve said this earlier but there’s no long-term tests for this vaccine, especially for children and preggers chicks and any suggestion of using other drugs that showed potential has been censored. One pharma company involved with the vaccine has previous history of rolling out drugs deemed safe only to find out years later that it was far from it and had instances of babies being born with horrendous disfigurements…at least the victims could sue and get some compensation, this current vaccine has small print that there’s no reimbursement possible if something goes wrong.

There’s so much sketchy shit that’s been happening that I’ve forgotten but it’s enough for me to be extremely suspicious until definitive proof comes out that things are legit and safe (takes ten years to have a drug cleared as safe if I remember correctly). Add to the fact that you need to continue getting booster jabs because you might not be fully covered in a few months and that’s a definite “nope” from me

[MadManMike]

I've had several calls from the NHS about vaccinations. I've had three voicemails from an Irish lady, telling me "we need to discuss my vaccination plans" - are you actually f**king kidding me?

I don't need to discuss my personal medical choices with anyone. Think what you like about taking / not taking it, but voicemails like that step WAY over the line.

[JT!]

3 hours ago, Ali C said:

even so I’m still sketched out that an emergency vaccine for the most vulnerable is now being “forced” onto everybody…I say forced as I agree with Adam that our freedom will be limited if we don’t take it…I’m potentially missing out on doing shows at Eurobike this year due to vaccine passports being necessary.

I’ve said this earlier but there’s no long-term tests for this vaccine, especially for children and preggers chicks and any suggestion of using other drugs that showed potential has been censored. One pharma company involved with the vaccine has previous history of rolling out drugs deemed safe only to find out years later that it was far from it and had instances of babies being born with horrendous disfigurements…at least the victims could sue and get some compensation, this current vaccine has small print that there’s no reimbursement possible if something goes wrong.

There’s so much sketchy shit that’s been happening that I’ve forgotten but it’s enough for me to be extremely suspicious until definitive proof comes out that things are legit and safe (takes ten years to have a drug cleared as safe if I remember correctly). Add to the fact that you need to continue getting booster jabs because you might not be fully covered in a few months and that’s a definite “nope” from me

I don't think the vaccine was ever considered a vaccine that would only be for the vulnerable, at least nothing I've ever seen.

Limiting travel to only those who have been vaccinated is obviously a thing that should happen, however you travel, you're doing it squished in with a bunch of other people. Travel is probably the top means of transmitting the virus, when I'm bussing it to work it's the only time I have to wear a mask right now, even with the rates being incredibly low in our area. I really wouldn't consider that being forced to take a vaccine in any way shape or form.

mRNA tech was tested on mice 30 years ago. It's not really new, this is just it's debut. We're very lucky we have this technology at this time. If we didn't we'd likely have supply issues. We'll look back at this time like we look back on how people thought microwaves would make your food nuclear or cellphones would give your brain tumors. Just because something is new doesn't mean we don't understand it.

The issue with drugs on children and pregnant women is the chemical change that they're designed to make, that change over a prolonged time can mess with development. My wife is on Depakote for migraines and every time we see any of her doctors we get obsessively reminded that it has serious side effects on a fetus and they've even suggested she take a pill along with it to stop that from happening "just in case". With vaccines though, they aren't like meds, and I don't believe that any medication taken long before a pregnancy has ever effected a fetuses development, only when taken during.

Booster jabs were always expected. We'll probably have to take on every year like we do with the flu shot.

 

[Ali C]

32 minutes ago, JT! said:

I don't think the vaccine was ever considered a vaccine that would only be for the vulnerable, at least nothing I've ever seen.

Limiting travel to only those who have been vaccinated is obviously a thing that should happen, however you travel, you're doing it squished in with a bunch of other people. Travel is probably the top means of transmitting the virus, when I'm bussing it to work it's the only time I have to wear a mask right now, even with the rates being incredibly low in our area. I really wouldn't consider that being forced to take a vaccine in any way shape or form.

mRNA tech was tested on mice 30 years ago. It's not really new, this is just it's debut. We're very lucky we have this technology at this time. If we didn't we'd likely have supply issues. We'll look back at this time like we look back on how people thought microwaves would make your food nuclear or cellphones would give your brain tumors. Just because something is new doesn't mean we don't understand it.

The issue with drugs on children and pregnant women is the chemical change that they're designed to make, that change over a prolonged time can mess with development. My wife is on Depakote for migraines and every time we see any of her doctors we get obsessively reminded that it has serious side effects on a fetus and they've even suggested she take a pill along with it to stop that from happening "just in case". With vaccines though, they aren't like meds, and I don't believe that any medication taken long before a pregnancy has ever effected a fetuses development, only when taken during.

Booster jabs were always expected. We'll probably have to take on every year like we do with the flu shot.

 

What’s wrong with just getting a negative test before traveling? 
 

I think it’s discriminatory, mainly for those who can’t take it for medical reasons but also to those who don’t want to take it, I worry it’s the start of bigger issues of control.

Ivermectin is a drug that’s been around for decades, has proven to be safe and showed real promise of being effective to treat Covid in humans. Sadly for some reason that escapes me any talk of Ivermectin was censored and funding cut (which limits legit papers and opens the doors for bias)  I’m sure mrna is safe in humans but I’m not volunteering for human testing without being paid.

 

look, I’m totally willing to come back in here and eat a whole load of humble pie if I’m wrong but I just don’t feel like I want to be part of this vaccine with the evidence (medically and politically) that I’ve seen

[Topsy]

It's quite amazing to see how different countries go about vaccinating. I sometimes listen to English and Scottish radios on radiogarden and the frequency of "get vaccinated" reminders was creepy nearly.

Here we have barely anything as far as I have seen.

I got my first one because I travel inland more frequently now to see my girlfriend, and she got it too. It didn't feel comfortable with lots of people suddenly behaving like it's 2019 again. Plus I felt like I'd rather be in the same boat as her really.

Easier travelling is a bonus, though I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be doing it. However, I could go to Germany, France or Italy easily with only a negative test, it'd cost me about £140 though.

Is that option not available in the UK, or is the vaccination an eurobike specific requirement, Ali?

Edited July 21, 2021 by Topsy

[MadManMike]

3 hours ago, Ali C said:

look, I’m totally willing to come back in here and eat a whole load of humble pie if I’m wrong but I just don’t feel like I want to be part of this vaccine with the evidence (medically and politically) that I’ve seen

You don't need to eat any humble pie, what drugs you choose to take is entirely up to you.

The fact society has been conditioned to think it's OK to quiz someone on their medical records and pressure people into it because they're "mass murderers" if they don't is disgusting imo.

It's simple for me: have your vaccines if you want, wear a mask if you want, distance if you want. I'll be sensible and avoid people if I'm not well (I'm isolating as I type this, actually, cancelled a week long holiday with my parents because of it). Nobody can tell me what I should do, it's my choice. It's all massively unethical and I'm surprised it's even legal. There's far more at play here than just health.