Covid19

[Al_Fel]

As to the origin of the Virus I'm pretty sure there was no evidence it came from the Wet Market in Wuhan all that was just an assumption. Let's not forget that China didn't admit there was a problem in the beginning as well.

I'm not trying to make a conspiracy theory I'm just talking about my take on it and the information I've seen.

[CC12345678910]

On 11/2/2020 at 9:21 AM, aener said:

I have to be honest, I couldn't make much sense of most of that, but the parts I could sound like you missed or ignored what I intended my point to be.
That could well be because my post was a rambling turd too, so no biggie.

Things like splitting a sentence in half to object to a fragment of it when the other half addresses it. That's not how language works.

Argh yeah looks like I was further gone on the stash of hobgoblin t'other night than i thought I was. Apologies for the direct question(s) as I'm sure that sounded confrontational. I was venting my spleen, not being incendiary. Remember though the opening gambit was

"so wadjah think about dis rona thing then boys?"

So I just had a rambletron dump into the silent white wall. Some conceptual. some less articulate. Some utter shite.

I'm not going to get into back-and-forthing because I don't know much about it, You're probs a smarter lad than I, so I'd wager I know even less.

and it sounds a bit like you wouldn't want to hear it if I did Not true. But I don't want a keyboard war or owt - I'm just pontificating at a screen whilst I'm sat in a break in my day with nowt better to do.
I'm in no way denying that the virus could have originated in a lab. It could easily have gotten out. I just believe if it did, it was an accident rather than organised malice. This is partly was I getting at, tangentially. There's no effing way this situation isn't synthetic - I was having fun with the hypothetical but I feel it's very much a possibility us in englandshire could be back under snitch arrest "lockdown" 'til [allegedly] 1st week of December because as a root cause someone somewhere skipped protocol because life got in the way, in some form. (And they were dicking around in the questionable ethical, of course.)

The reason I call in a "lockdown" in inverted is not because I want tighter controls (f***ing hell no) but because I listen to 8radio.com out of Ireland whenever I'm sat here at my desk, and the Taoiseach's decree is that no f**ker's allowed more than 5km from their place of residence, just for starters. It used to be 2km.

As much as I've got a pout on about our tightening of a governmental control sphincter that'll never relax once they've a taste restrictions, I must, and am, be mindful that what the Irish appear to have, that is a lockdown.

Now we could've (it's not beyond the realms of possibility, I mean) surely avoided a bunch of our predicament by doing what the manx did (and some of the scottish isles IIRC) and just up drawbridge - stop importing the problem and deal with internal containment.

I know life is more difficult than that, and other cards are/were in play; but if anyone skimming this believes that all of 'em were for the good of usthepeople, then I've 10,000 Ghanaian lottery tickets to sell you, can I have your account no. & sort code please?   

[aener]

26 minutes ago, CC12345678910 said:

...

I agree.

As soon as it became apparent that things were going to change I was on the side of "hit it hard and fast". They f**ked about for ages and then brought in half measures.
Look at places that did it right: Norway and Australia come to mind. Now they have zero cases.
It won't make you popular at the time, but it works.

Even Wales had the 5km thing, if I recall?

I'm fortunate in that at the time I had a job I could do from home and had some savings to fall back on when redundancy came, so I recognise that I weathered it better than a lot of people were able to, but doing something like that half-arsed seems worse than not doing it at all. You're not saving the lives, and you're tanking your economy. Worst of both.

[Andy7]

This is getting a joke now this tier 4 has come in to action and there is apparently another version of corona virus that can't be cured or this is what I have been told! People are getting fed up now and tired of all these lockdowns and closures for businesses. I mean everyone can have their own opinion and say on it but I think its just all getting too much now!

[ben_travis]

2 minutes ago, Andy7 said:

This is getting a joke now this tier 4 has come in to action and there is apparently another version of corona virus that can't be cured or this is what I have been told! People are getting fed up now and tired of all these lockdowns and closures for businesses. I mean everyone can have their own opinion and say on it but I think its just all getting too much now!

What would you propose?

[Andy7]

2 minutes ago, ben_travis said:

What would you propose?

Something more suitable for businesses to keep a float, all the years and hard work that people have carried out and put their lives through just to get their businesses were they are today and it can all be lost due to this pandemic. I know its a difficult time and not every business can be saved but it has gone on over 12 months now in and out of lockdowns and we are no better off. I don't think everyone will be able to live like this forever.

[JT!]

11 minutes ago, Andy7 said:

in and out of lockdowns and we are no better off.

Imagine if we didn't do that. We are better off.

[Luke Rainbird]

36 minutes ago, Andy7 said:

over 12 months now in and out of lockdowns

The first UK "lockdown" started on 23rd March?

Realistically there should have been a properly brutal shutdown for 4-6weeks back then. I can understand why that didn't happen, and hindsight is, for want of a better phrase, 2020, but yeah. We've now reached a point where people are fed up with it and just cracking on with their own thing, which is what's kept (and is keeping) us in a state of perpetual f**kery.

[bikeperson45]

The constant sense of not knowing what we can do, what type of businesses are open, whether I should be going to work, whether I can see friends, whether we're in a lockdown is pretty exhausting for me. That first major lockdown was tough but at least I knew where I was in the world, today's announcement has been an upset because the past week has been headlines of not going back on the Christmas rules so I thought there was some degree of stability for the next two weeks or whatever but now that's out the window. 

I'm wearing my mask constantly, haven't been able to travel to see people, Zoom calling, avoiding shops, lost out of hundreds of tiny things I would have done this year and just going on my phone to see it's changed again is a bit of a gut punch. I know that's the same for most people and that way more people have gone through a lot worse, but gosh darn it's been a tough year. I almost think I'd prefer a more authoritarian approach to it all now... Or at least if it was someone other than Boris Johnson bumbling his way through press conferences.   

[Stephen Morris]

1 hour ago, bikeperson45 said:

The constant sense of not knowing what we can do, what type of businesses are open, whether I should be going to work, whether I can see friends, whether we're in a lockdown is pretty exhausting for me. That first major lockdown was tough but at least I knew where I was in the world, today's announcement has been an upset because the past week has been headlines of not going back on the Christmas rules so I thought there was some degree of stability for the next two weeks or whatever but now that's out the window. 

I'm wearing my mask constantly, haven't been able to travel to see people, Zoom calling, avoiding shops, lost out of hundreds of tiny things I would have done this year and just going on my phone to see it's changed again is a bit of a gut punch. I know that's the same for most people and that way more people have gone through a lot worse, but gosh darn it's been a tough year. I almost think I'd prefer a more authoritarian approach to it all now... Or at least if it was someone other than Boris Johnson bumbling his way through press conferences.   

It’s almost like the Tories are doing a bad job.

[forteh]

2 hours ago, Luke Rainbird said:

Realistically there should have been a properly brutal shutdown for 4-6weeks back then. I can understand why that didn't happen, and hindsight is, for want of a better phrase, 2020, but yeah. We've now reached a point where people are fed up with it and just cracking on with their own thing, which is what's kept (and is keeping) us in a state of perpetual f**kery.

The lockdown should have been at least a month earlier and brutal as you say, boris has always been on the back foot and has made a right f**k up of it all.

Look at the likes of NZ and the isle of man, locked down early and properly, been back to normal since may time with no problems except for external contractors who have to quarantine for two weeks.  Admittedly their population isn't as dense but they acted far faster with more decisive action.

The wife called this last year (end of december) before it was labelled a pandemic, also predicted that we wouldn't be clear by christmas 20....

[JT!]

This is the biggest problem now, people just don't give a shit anymore.

Out here we're seeing record cases. This might just be down to more testing, but people just act like nothing is happening. I work retail, so back when we had our initial state lockdown, you'd see people coming with masked and gloved, keeping distance, sanitizing in and out, insisting I don't touch any of their items etc. Now about 5 times a night people lick their fingers to count money and half aren't even wearing masks.

I think we all have to brace ourselves for everyone having the same attitude over Christmas and New Years. I'd imagine the first half of January we're going to see a massive spike.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I'm quickly getting into the 'don't give a shit' category when it comes to the rules that change daily. Don't get me wrong, I'm wearing a mask wherever I need to, being careful and sensible but basically Boris and his wanky rules can do one. So three households can't mix over the original 5 days but they can mix on Christmas day? And that's different and changes the transmission liklihood how? These are the f**kwits who not only got us into this Brexit mess but after four years are still fannying around wiht no sign of any kind of deal being in place. These are the c units who have handed out hundreds of millions of pounds in contracts to ferry companies with no ferries, PPE companies set up after the pandemic hit with zero history in providing medical suppllies and are then surprised when the PPE that has been provided isn't up to spec. They literally couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and I have absolutely no time or patience for the c**ts.

I don't know how the numbers are being reported in the states but I still don't like the way the numbers are reported in the UK- this deaths recorded within 28 days of a positive COVID test doesn't cut it. It makes it impossible to tell if John died in a car acident within four weeks of having a positive test when he was entirely asymptomatic and equally misses Jane who has been in hospital on a ventilator for six weeks before succumbing to the virus...

[Ali C]

David Portnoy’s rant

 

Ok so that’s America so slightly different but I agree that it seems crazy to blanket ban everyone from working when some clearly are less risk than others. 
 

yeah I know it’s easier to blanket ban than to go though every business individually but people are loosing their lively hood when there’s no need... it’s like banning everyone from a swimming pool because a couple of people can’t swim.

 

Jane is a massage therapist and has gone to ridiculous lengths to make her work environment safe (people commented on how well the clinic was being run) and hasn’t had a single case out of hundreds of clients yet she’s had to shut and put her livelihood at huge risk, it’s unknown whether she’ll have a clinic to go back to. Zero scientific proof she needs to shut yet here we are. Schools stayed open, Greggs stayed open , the KFC near me that had six reported cases is open yet she has to shut.

 

the real blow is the osteopath business next door can stay open because it’s a “vital” service.

 

I also find it crazy that there IS an already commonly available drug that’s proven to prevent COVID but the government won’t use it because they’re committed to lining the pockets of their friends companies and try and develop a new vaccine (which has zero test history for side effects, long term health etc).

 

third world countries are using the readily available drug (I forget its name) because they don’t have the budget to develop a new one and ironically it’ll help them a lot more than the situation we’re in. Scientists are trying to get the word out but are being silenced, tweets deleted, YouTube videos being taken down etc because it doesn’t comply with what the WHO are saying, these are the same people who have been three steps ahead of the WHO all year... it’s about time they are listened to.

 

 This is all information Jane has told me so I’m a little foggy on the exact details but she’s great at researching academic papers, she was a biomedical scientist and is able to have some grasp on the medical world so this isn’t some tin hat stuff, the government HAVE a proven vaccine with years of history so we know exactly what the long term effects are but just won’t use it! Crazy! 
 

 

[manuel]

6 minutes ago, Ali C said:

David Portnoy’s rant.

 

I also find it crazy that there IS an already commonly available drug that’s proven to prevent COVID but the government won’t use it because they’re committed to lining the pockets of their friends companies and try and develop a new vaccine (which has zero test history for side effects, long term health etc).

 

???

[Ali C]

Ivermectin is the drug 

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

4 minutes ago, manuel said:

???

It seems there are various possible everyday/existing drugs that are considered potentially useful against COVID including antimalarial drugs (amodiaquine) and antiviral drugs remdesivir and favipiravir.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

1 minute ago, Ali C said:

Ivermectin is the drug 

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

Like the rest of the advice out there: It works but it doesn't work.

[Ali C]

9 minutes ago, monkeyseemonkeydo said:

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

Like the rest of the advice out there: It works but it doesn't work.

I think it depends where you look. Scientific data can be super bias, perhaps funded by people with invested interest in a certain result etc. there’s a lot of chaff to filter out before you find true honest peer reviewed data

 

i can’t find (or pretend to fully be able to understand) the academic research that Jane was reading but from her reaction it was pretty clear that it was doing something! 
 

There was one test done in a hospital where they split the medical workers (500 of them I think) 50/50 and gave half no drugs and half Ivermectin. The half with no drugs developed over 200 cases of COVID and the half with Ivermectin developed 7 (there was a lot more info, I’m really simplifying this as it’s not my expertise) and that was just one test, there’s been others that have also had positive results.

 

now perhaps this vaccine the government is better than no drug and would even up the test results but it’s still a rushed out drug with zero history... the other has been around since the 80s and is proven safe (the developers got Nobel prizes).

[manuel]

32 minutes ago, Ali C said:

Ivermectin is the drug 

As far as I can tell this is effective in tests on infected cells in mahoosive doses (beyond safe human dosage). Some countries have dosed it out to people with very minimal trialing and a lot of the studies are massively flawed. it seems the same as with the other drugs Dave quoted - some effect but mostly as a treatment to stop the most sick dying and even then they don’t seem to be that effective? Not sure there are any that currently can be proven preventative?
 

 

[Ali C]

I can’t give a real opinion as I personally haven’t looked into it myself, I’m just going from what Jane has told me. She’s extremely rational and not into conspiracies at all and I trust her opinion on all things scientific and she’s pretty hyped on the research she’s read.

 

[Little Yoshi]

Well one positive is that the Highlands are classed as mainland so I've got a lot of courier companies to shout at for all the extra postage they've charged me for not being mainland.  Silver linings and that

[Topsy]

The positive (and negative) in the UK is that your, admittedly fairly incompetent, government has the balls to call off Christmas.

Switzerland probably will be finding body bags under the tree on Christmas morning and the kids will be taught to fill these special stockings with their grandparents in January.

Our government vowed that we won't have a second lockdown but most people agree that we should have had another short one two months ago. Ironically people are starting to distrust them because they thing they should have done more. Now they went ahead and close stores earlier than usual which will concentrate people more in the shops and on their way home at closing time. Can't even get some bread at a petrol station on a Sunday anymore ffs.

But hey, Christmas is safe, that the main thing, right? Right?

[manuel]

9 hours ago, Ali C said:

I can’t give a real opinion as I personally haven’t looked into it myself, I’m just going from what Jane has told me. She’s extremely rational and not into conspiracies at all and I trust her opinion on all things scientific and she’s pretty hyped on the research she’s read.

 

The way I look at it... 

Without being in the field, it’s hard to pick apart what is effective and what isn’t - it takes incredibly well designed and executed studies to find out. 
 

But

if there were drugs that were readily available and were effective enough to stop us needing economy crippling lockdowns - we would be using them. It would surely take a conspiracy on a global scale involving governments, scientists, drug companies etc for that not to be the case? There are too many vaccines in play from too many different places and too many people dying in too many different countries. 
 

I find it hilarious that the uk is now basically banned from going abroad, or going out, or seeing other people. The government has been truly pathetic in its handling and is now just a total embarrassment. If the vaccine fixes this I’ll be genuinely surprised. But it seems the best shot. 

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

You don't know what you're saying... how can you not have trust in BoJo?

Oh, yeah, that's right...