Covid19

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I liked the way he started with the 'time to get serious', sounded like he was locking us down with the 1 exercise hour per day and essential food/medicine outing then... oh but it's ok to go to work if you can't do that from home. Not specifically for the 'key workers' jobs, just anyone. So yeah, I'm at work (on my own in a big building I should add) getting the tunnel ready for the planned refurb work that has now been called off/suspended :sadface: . 

I know we're only at the beginning but it's 'good' to see the Italy numbers slowing up a bit and that the UK hasn't yet followed them into a spiralling situation like we seemed to be heading for. f**ked up times.

Oh and I never got my freebord because Covid-19... Bastarding virus!

[manuel]

looks like it takes 2-3 weeks for measures to kick in, given the incubation period and time to death after falling ill. My guess is our numbers will increase significantly, but not as badly as italy (although london?) as they have a significant number of oldies living with young people. 

Griff got a temperature last night. Only mild and griff is unbelievably prone to them, but we are in self isolating mode. Im just worried that in two weeks time when we come out and case levels are that much higher we will get it straight away and have to do it all again  (assuming its not this time)

work has finally seen the light and has ruled one person in a van at a time and distancing in the office as best as possible and possibly even antibac hand gel !! 

Edit: temp coming back up

[Mark W]

1 hour ago, monkeyseemonkeydo said:

I liked the way he started with the 'time to get serious', sounded like he was locking us down with the 1 exercise hour per day and essential food/medicine outing then... oh but it's ok to go to work if you can't do that from home. Not specifically for the 'key workers' jobs, just anyone.

Think the measures are about mitigating risks without totally crashing the entire economy in one go.  If you stop shops being open, you reduce the chances for people to be in contact with other people, and also reduce the reason for them to leave their house.  For businesses where they don't have contact with the general public, they can work in-house to minimise any issues - the companies I do work for are all still operating due to how the rules work as they are now and have taken extra steps to minimise risks of infection/transmission.  There's no need for them to have to shut, so it doesn't make sense to arbitrarily close them down.  Same goes for @Tom Booth's setup - there's extremely low risk there, so why stop it?

One thing that's been annoying to see online over the past few days are people saying that businesses shouldn't have any help from the government because if they aren't able to sustain themselves through this then they "aren't a good enough business".  Case in point was a story about PureGym - they don't qualify for the help the government is offering to big businesses due to the weird hoops they have to be able to jump through, but are too big for the help offered to smaller/medium sized businesses.  Saw a bunch of people call them out for not being a good business if they were in trouble, and that they didn't deserve any help.  How do people think a company can scale over time to support a large customer base (and be a totally viable business for that), but then be totally fine if their entire customer base is taken away overnight?  Your customers being taken away doesn't also take away all your overheads.  I get that it's a bit of a throwback to the bank bail-outs in 2008, but that's a totally different scenario.

To go back to your question about self employed people Tom, I think you can probably do what you like.  Judging from the amount of support they've offered self employed/freelance people, they won't be giving a f**k about you.

[stalled]

I hate to come by as a pessimistic but things are not looking great for the UK.

If Italy was not example enough of the devastating effects a rapidly spreading virus (mainly due to lack of community immunity) can cause, look at Spain, upwards of 500 deaths in the last 24h, if that is not evidence enough of what happens when you delay the response measures, I don't know what is.

Italy is now suspected to be a victim of a very late finding of the first cases that may have occurred as far back as December and that means the first few infected people roamed freely around the country fr a couple of months, many without obvious symptoms, many only light ones that caused no hurry, and since the attack rate (how many people does an infected person successfully transmits the disease to) of the virus can be as high as 5 individuals, it is utterly overwhelming.

Here in Portugal we are hoping for the best but already expecting the worst and despite the recent declaration of the state of emergency we still see irresponsible acts from people who go on public walks in areas where typically people give preference too on a daily basis, originating small crowds that are now forbidden. A disgrace for them and the rest of us that choose to avoid leaving home at all costs.

As far as I know the UK government was following one of the possible strategies in these situations, hoping that a cured person would become immune... all nice and dandy but so far there is no evidence that an infected person can't be infected once more and that strategy alone is a very bad idea since it takes at least 60% of the population to be immune in order to effectively slow down the virus spread and give time for the health care services to cope with the critically hill in need of assisted air ventilation.

Time will tell if the UK politicians made very, very bad decisions, when they basically devalued the impact and seriousness of a virus that has the potential to bring a nation to its knees not because of the high mortality rate (which is actually pretty low if the spread is contained) but because of how easily it spreads and fatigues the health care response.

Lets not mention the USA, some experts predict that about 150.000.000 may get infected and given the current average mortality rate in Europe that may resolve to about 5.000.000 dead people... a disgrace.

Regarding the closing of public places... unfortunately all evidence show that in Europe dantesque measures have to be taken and a day too late means hundreds if not thousands of deaths become a reality due the geometric progression of exponential proportions that epidemiologists all over the globe have been warning about. Closing a private business is not to be taken lightly, most have no money on the side because mostly are probably not that profitable and that will be the next big challenge once the infection is contained.

Speaking of which, we will now see how the UK will cope with the devastated economy, especially after the Brexit.

Edited March 24, 2020 by stalled

[Tom Booth]

2 hours ago, Mark W said:

 

The whole speech was just kinda wet in my opinion, almost like Boris is just trying stay as your ol'buddy ol'pal. Which is a great tactic but given the situation we're in it's not possible to get people to do what you want and stay on side. Gotta just play the b*****d really. I'm surprised he didn't start last nights announcement with "I'm not mad, just dissapointed".

I went to work for a few hours this morning but mainly to gather work to bring home. I've bought enough work to stay productive and to keep my brain occupied for atleast 5-6 weeks. As you say though, the customers are gone but the overheads remain, ok really fortunate my unit is very low cost as are the utilities. Sucks for bigger firms, my dads place was closed last night as they're non essential retail, but his higgest competitor are classed as essential as they do a bit of mechanical autoparts, which is a real kick in the dick for my dad.

I do believe todays speech will bring ruther stricter measures and outline better rules for us all. I really hope so as the quicker we all down tools and sit it out the quicker its buggered off.

I spoke to my polisher earlier who is strictly a metal polisher, he works on items for the food industry so is pulling that string to stay open!?

[MadManMike]

I'm now in quarantine for 14 days.

Riding a small wave in the Corona sea... hoping that wave doesn't get any bigger.

[Mark W]

Out of interest, did you get tested?  Or have you been in contact with someone who may have/has it or something?

[cwtrials]

Sitting at home in USA.  Kids are home from school all day, which isn't horrible since they're pretty well behaved.  But my wife's still recovering from surgery and doesn't have a tone of energy.  Here in North Carolina we're at the social distance, no groups of more than 10.  But I think we'll be in a "shelter in place" by the end of the week, so I've been trying to get out on the bike before I'm not allowed to.  Some of the riding spots I go to are closed to the public.  Sadly I've lost the majority of my income to this, and am scrambling to get things together to start teaching english to elementary kids online.  Things still look way worse in the UK than here, comparison wise North Carolina is 1/6 the pop of UK, but just has around 400 cases with 0 deaths so far.

[MadManMike]

58 minutes ago, Mark W said:

Out of interest, did you get tested?  Or have you been in contact with someone who may have/has it or something?

As far as I'm aware you can't get tested unless admitted to hospital?

The advice is to quarantine and keep away, not even call 111 unless you feel you really have to.

I have all the symptoms now, but mild. I've been a bit rough for 4-5 days, now short of breath but not too bad - feels like I've walked up a steep hill.

[Rusevelt]

Would it be fair comment to say that unfortunately, the death toll in the UK will rise past 500 before the end of this week.

The story of 28yr old Michael Prendercast on twitter, is very interesting in terms of the time he spent in London before shortly contracting only a mild form of COVID-19, describing symptoms he experienced, well as the fact he had no underlying health conditions which could have potentially led to his death. 

Pretty clear indication that we have to boost our immune system and as well keep our lungs in good health as well (noticed an increase number of joggers and walkers around my local open spaces) as the hygiene regime just to stand a good chance of riding out this thing.... especially if we cannot be disciplined enough with the social distancing.

Work wise, bosses at my daytime job have decided to split the workforce into two groups and work alternative one week on, one week off. As with Deliveroo, all riders have to operate distancing and none contact with both restaurant staff and customer.

Excel Centre makes perfect sense as a temporary medical facility in terms of the building size and out of town location. I wouldn't be surprised if that location with the abandoned building opposite Excel Centre gets used for you know what (The scene from 28 Weeks Later).

EE network provider sends me GOV updates SMS.

[Mark W]

41 minutes ago, cwtrials said:

Things still look way worse in the UK than here, comparison wise North Carolina is 1/6 the pop of UK, but just has around 400 cases with 0 deaths so far.

How much are they testing in your state?  Doing the NY/Cuomo thing of testing the shit out of people or are they fairly casual?

@MadManMike - yeah, I thought that was the case so didn't know if you were subtly implying you were f**ked and in hospital   Had the same vibes as you up until yesterday or so as it happens.  Described the shortness of breath thing in almost exactly the same way to Nic too, funnily enough.  We're also keeping a low profile for similar reasons.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

What happens in the US in terms of providing care? I take it a lot of people (low income etc.) don't have insurance and so if they require hospital treatment they end up with a massive bill at the end?

[Brian Bleech]

30 minutes ago, monkeyseemonkeydo said:

What happens in the US in terms of providing care? I take it a lot of people (low income etc.) don't have insurance and so if they require hospital treatment they end up with a massive bill at the end?

Yep, this person ended up around $35,000 in debt. 

 

https://time.com/5806312/coronavirus-treatment-cost/

[MadManMike]

1 hour ago, Mark W said:

How much are they testing in your state?  Doing the NY/Cuomo thing of testing the shit out of people or are they fairly casual?

@MadManMike - yeah, I thought that was the case so didn't know if you were subtly implying you were f**ked and in hospital   Had the same vibes as you up until yesterday or so as it happens.  Described the shortness of breath thing in almost exactly the same way to Nic too, funnily enough.  We're also keeping a low profile for similar reasons.

How long did you have this for?

I'm on day 4 or 5, but the shortness of breath has only really been noticeable today.

[cwtrials]

It seems like they're doing a decent amount of testing. There have been issues with the tests in the USA. First not working well, and also not being in great supply. But outside of major cities things aren't really too bad here.

Here the problem isn't really low income families, or at least really low income, as they qualify for Medicaid. Even if you don't you should be able to get healthcare through the affordable healthcare act. The problem is for mid and high income self employed people who don't have health insurance provided by an employer and don't qualify for one of the government subsidized options. They can get screwed, (with or without covid-19). (This all being way more than I Normally talk about American politics)

That being said, is be surprised if Congress didn't pass something to pay for the cost of treatment of covid-19 specifically.

[US_BenR]

6 hours ago, monkeyseemonkeydo said:

What happens in the US in terms of providing care? I take it a lot of people (low income etc.) don't have insurance and so if they require hospital treatment they end up with a massive bill at the end?

You get f**ked.

Billing in the USA is asinine.  My last medical problem...lets see, the surgery bill was about 15k, but then negotiated down to 2k through the insurance company, and they paid something like 1800 of that.  

f**k, for most things, if I had that negotiating power, I'd rather pay 2k than expensive premiums each month. 

Edited March 25, 2020 by US_BenR

[sharn]

Hope everyone is keeping safe and well,

Many difficulties occuring for people aside affects from the pandemic of this virus such as stress and worry

Thought I'd share a little tip of using lemongrass essential oil in your homes.. It's really wonderful stuff.

It's obviously no cure as such but helps hugely with cleaning the air for better breathing and relaxing mind receiving stress. In one of those little burners with a tea light is a cheap option, fill dish with water and add a dozen drops or you can get some whizzy high tech essential oil vape style air freshener things these days also.

Just for relaxation purposes around the home and since most people are stuck at home at the moment, now might be the time to experiment with some aromatherapy ?

Many great oils to help, including eucalyptus, pine, frankincense etc I personally enjoying lemongrass at the moment. Would love to hear if anyone tries these who hasn't before or if people have other tips and techniques. Hows everyone coping? Keeping a routine, and not over eating being stuck at home!

peace 

Edited March 25, 2020 by sharn

[Rusevelt]

Just seen this during my break at work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52033845

[bing]

We (Howden joinery) have been closed down now, all transport stopped for the most part, apart from the odd bit that’s already booked in, all shops shut, all factories closed at 2pm yesterday. I was told to remain available for work incase we get subcontracted out to supermarkets. But with my GF being an intensive care nurse I’d rather not. Deffo getting paid this month, don’t know what is happening next month yet, wether we get full or 80%. Time will tell. I’m glad we’ve been stopped because the staff on our shops weren’t taking this thing seriously at all. Total lack of distancing 

[forteh]

We're manning the office one man a day on a rota (today is my day) to keep phone calls and stuff sorted, the factory is still fully open for anyone under 60 (the old f**kers got sent home last monday) and we've been designated as key workers for both severn trent water and thames water so unlikely to close down completely.  Everyone else is remote working so things are still going ahead, just a little slower.  On site installation work is petering out though, I was supposed to be surveying for thames tomorrow, that has been cancelled, a grit plant was supposed to be installed at Hull next week, again cancelled.  Hotels closing causes a massive headache for the site installation teams as they would have to commute to site every morning which would be upwards of three hours each way traffic notwithstanding.

[Rusevelt]

 

[manuel]

19 hours ago, MadManMike said:

How long did you have this for?

I'm on day 4 or 5, but the shortness of breath has only really been noticeable today.

Day 7 is supposed to be the worst. 

Griffs temp has been up and down for 2 days now, but day two shut in at home was much better than day one. His cough and my cough of 3 weeks plus is still going nowhere.

[Tom Booth]

Seeing as were all gonna be inside for a while I decided to shave last night from a short beard to bitta Texas scruff and a moustache, may aswell try something new while nobody else is gonna see.

[stalled]

On 18/03/2020 at 10:33 AM, Tom Booth said:

I'm with @Mikee, I'm struggling to understand the lockdown mentality. I'm not saying its wrong, I just don't understand it, surely living your life with caution is how to handle this? Wash your hands more often, be more careful around populated areas and generally just be more aware. Life can't stop because of a virus, obviously we need to be more mindful towards the elderly and vulnerable, but this mass disruption is gonna cause so much harm in my eyes. I think it shows how much we distrust our neighbours and the rest of society to not be taking the precautions necessary.

Futures a scary thing in my opinion if we carry on down this path.

Lack of community immunity and of a specific vaccine all together make quarantine the last and basically the only resort to fight the spreading of the disease and thinking that you can just continue to get out as before and just by "being careful" you'll end up ok is just the start of the problem. For starts "to be careful" can mean a lot of different things to different people, maybe you believe that to stay away from nearby passing people is enough, some people will not avoid public transportation for example, its convenient and its what they are accustomed to.

Stay home, stay home and... stay home. It's hard, on everyone, but if you are not infected and want to remain that way for your sake and the sake of others, that is the best approach.

The right analogy is to think of this situation as a wild fire (the virus) on a remote forest zone (cities, villages, etc.), fireman (the medical staff) can't put out the fire fast enough for it too stop burning nearby trees but one thing they can do is to strategically cut down trees (in this case, us, citizens, we are not killed as the trees but we are removed from the forest) forming a physical barrier that devoid the fire of additional material to consume. Failing to prevent the fire from spreading will mean a lot of forest life will be lost because when the fire starts slowing down a lot of damage will have been done.

The alternate, simpler, analogy is to think of the virus a spring and the measures as a whole (the closing of schools, the social isolation, etc.) as your hand compressing down the spring. If the measures are applied in a successfull way, if your hand pushes down with enough force, the spring will remain compressed and "small", if you alleviate the pressure of your hand by reducing the effectiveness of the measures, the spring will be stronger and will push your hand up enabling the virus to spread and infect more and more people.

Italy is feeling the pain, Spain is feeling the pain and before its over more countries, if not careful enough and courageous enough to implement strict, strong measures, will feel the pain. I just hope that in the case of the UK and the USA the politicians have not waited too long.

Edited March 26, 2020 by stalled

[JT!]

On 3/24/2020 at 2:39 PM, monkeyseemonkeydo said:

What happens in the US in terms of providing care? I take it a lot of people (low income etc.) don't have insurance and so if they require hospital treatment they end up with a massive bill at the end?

Low income people (like myself) have access to state medical programs (thanks Obama). My heathcare is essentially free and they'll cover everything with little or no cost to me.

If you're middle to low income, you'll generally have health insurance through your employer, which varies company to company. Some companies will actually pay you less but offer you better insurance, or visa versa, insurance is always something you'd consider when taking on a new job in the USA. I hate it because you have to read a 64 page booklet to work out if you're getting a competitive deal or not, rather than just looking at your hourly rate or salary and considering a few bonuses.


The state of Minnesota has officially announced a "stay the f**k at home" order as of today. Naturally I immediately went out and bought a shit load of alcohol.

I'm an essential worker because I provide food. I'm getting paid $2 more an hour for the next 5 weeks which is nice. All non essential work has stopped.

The US has just about overtaken Italy for positive cases and will probably overtake China in a few days.